goc

iTrader: (1)

Hi

First: I have searched the forum for threads about this but have not found any relevant information. But if you know where, please point me in the right direction.

Now, I would like to install an ABS (Anti Lock Brakes) unit on my FC NA. I am building a race car and thought it would be a good idea. In the race class I am thinking of joining, my car will be a bit too heavy, and to remove the last 150 -200 lb, to be on the optimum weight per hp ration, will be expensive. ABS brakes will give me a weight penalty of 5% and that I am willing to take for the improved brake performance. Anybody that have the experience?

What do I need?
Can I just bolt on from other FC's or other Mazda cars?
In which details are the devil hiding?
Any wiring issues?

Thanks in advance
Goran

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

Maybe try this:
Find a thread that Specifies how to Remove the ABS and sort of work backwards.The thread should tell you what is being removed,so that would give you a list of what to get.

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

Not worth it. FC abs is garbage and it would be a pain to install.

You need to retro fit the wheel sensors since your car is an s4 (vehicle speed sensors vs engine speed). This means u need new hubs on all 4 corners as the non abs hubs don't have holes for the sensors. Of course you will also need the speed sensors themselves which like to break upon removal and good luck getting them new. You also need the wiring harness for the sensors which is not present on non-and cars and runs through the sub frame and cannot be removed w/o cutting and re-splicing. Also you will either need to get a rear sub frame from an abs car or drill and tap yours, since the bolt holes for the mounting brackets aren't there on the non-abs version.

I don't think the ecu is different, but you will need to acquire the abs control computer/ wiring harness. You might also have to run wiring to the main fuse box as the slot for ABS is empty on the non-abs cars I've seen. If you really want to be thorough, you would also want to get an abs idiot light cluster as well.

You also need a full set of abs brake lines which I think are available from the dealer, but considering a 2ft line w/ 2 bends was $35 that can add up quick.

Which brings us to the pump, which is over $1000 new, sadly that's probably your only option as there is no rebuild kit available and almost all the old ones leak, which rules out a used unit (that's why half the people remove abs in the first place....the fact that it sucks accounts for ther other half).

So overall its a pretty bad idea, and a terrible investment. I'm pretty sure there are better ways to spend $2k on your "race car"

Falcoms

You can easily out-brake an ABS equipped FC in any weather condition even as a mediocre driver. Absolutely not worth it in anyone's book. I don't run ABS on my race-prepped FC, and it's perfectly fine. Losing 200# off the FC chassis is easy to do, too. Start with ditching the noise deadening tar on the floor, about 35-40#, if not a little more. Removing other unnecessary components such as interior trim, rear wiper, sunroof (if applicable), the 8# glovebox door, emissions components, and switching to a single-exit exhaust setup, and you can be down to the 2550# range with driver. Trust me, if you're gonna take a weight penalty for your racing class, make sure it's something that's worth it, like a dog-engagement trans or up-sized wheels/tires, depending on class rules

goc

iTrader: (1)

Thank you all for your inputs.
Now that is excellent information and worth a couple of hundreds or thousands of dollars/euros, not to mention working hours in a cold garage.

I was a bit suspicious that the early ABS units wasn't as effective as todays, and now you have just confirmed that. The car will be lighter too.

Thanks and best regards
Goran

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

yep, it's simply not worth the effort unless you went with a more current aftermarket ABS system and that will be quite costly.

plutten

I don't agree that the FC abs sucks.
I still use that on mine (s5 turbo) and i love it! brakes so hard that it leaves black tracks on the road even with slicks on it.
I have 4 fc:s and no one of these has a leaking abs unit...

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

feel lucky, they almost always leak and there is no rebuild kits.

picture yourself installing a used ABS kit on a non ABS car, spending weeks hacking the car up to install it to find your ABS unit pissing brake fluid all over the frame rail, having to fill it up every other day or risk getting air into the system due to no fluid in the reservoir.

foot control works fine for ABS and i actually prefer it that way.

Akagis_white_comet

iTrader: (4)

In addition to what everyone has said about the hydraulic and nuts & bolts of it, the wiring aspects of it simply aren't worth the effort. I've spent more time on the wiring diagrams in the S4 FSM than most, tracing every single wire beginning to end on every connector.

Since the wiring used for the ABS computer & sensors isn't in your car, you'd have to either de-pin it from a donor car and re-pin it on yours, or swap the Front, Engine and Rear Harnesses. And since certain connectors are completely different from the non-ABS versions, you'd have to replace those as well. FE-05 comes to mind on that one.

All in all, not worth the effort for the reasons stated by sharingan 19, Karack and Falcoms. To quote Ryosuke Takahashi ,"The right foot of a talented driver will outperform ABS every time."

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

you can't easily install the ABS, as the BODY actually has a couple of extra braces for the ABS. also while most of the newer hubs/spindles have the bosses for the ABS sensors, the ABS hub rings are WEIRD and expensive! the brake lines are also mostly different between the ABS and non ABS cars.

so its best to start with an ABS car..

the ABS actually does work just fine on the track, however it does turn the tires octagonal!

there actually IS a rebuild kit, shoot me a PM

an alternative might be to use a honda/acura ABS unit, they are 4 channel, and the wiring is actually standalone, so it would be an easy swap, the wheel speed sensors are still the hard part....

rx7_FREAKKK

iTrader: (1)

hell with abs.. I wanna WOODY my rx7.. Can anyone tell me how to WOODY my rx7.. i want to turn my Rx7 into a country squirl Edition

86mazdafc

agree with rx7 freakkk...lol...why would you want abs on a track car.

T2 vert

iTrader: (5)

http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1491.0

To the OP, this is a thread on the No Rotor forum that might interest you.

HOZZMANRX7

iTrader: (43)

I started collecting parts to do this project on my S5, and pretty much have them all. But abandoned the project in favor of others. I can tell what the few remaining things are that would be needed.

If you want the parts, PM me. But one of the parts is the additional brake fluid line to the rear, so would be really challenging to ship.

nycgps

iTrader: (4)

I never tried the ABS on the FC but if you're expecting stock ABS's performance is as good as today's ABS systems or at least hope it's "not that much of a difference," then you will be greatly disappointed.

rx7_FREAKKK

iTrader: (1)

I Never heard of anyone wanting to ad abs to an Rx7 that didnt have it,
All you have to do is Do the math, and look at How many Lines Wires and computers that you need to Hook up... The time involved and Expense You would be better off buying a rx7 that had ABS and a bad engine... and Rebuilding the engine.. You would save yourself Time Money and braincells.

But agian. Any good Driver in the Rain or snow Always stays light on the Brakes and Pumps. Problem Solved..

i could make my Car a Convertible.. But it would not make Much sense

Osirus9

iTrader: (10)

This

I love how there are people on this forum who love Initial D (myself included), but aren't complete ricer idiots obsessed with drifting and being hella flush.

to the OP, I'd remove ABS even on a new car. I hate the way it feels when it kicks in. It's like the car saying "ok, you tried, but let me take over now" except the car has no eyes and it's not as good as braking as I am.

HOZZMANRX7

iTrader: (43)

To quote Ryosuke Takahashi ,"The right foot of a talented driver will outperform ABS every time."

And, that's great for anyone that has gone through a competition driving learning curve. Unfortunatley they are in the minority overall. Thus the reason why ABS was introduced in the first place.

So if you want to improve your stopping ability you can either:

1. Invest your money in driving lessons and track time, or

2. Invest your money via purchase of a car with ABS, or

3. You can invest your money and time and add ABS to your current car.

It's that simple. You'd go after #3 if you enjoy retrofitting challenges which I dare say is a driving force behind most every one that participates in this forum. So your search for retrofit advice is very fare. I can tell you having done the research, everything will simply bolt in and and plug in with minor additional wiring needed.

It's kind of like asking why mountain climbers climb mountains. The answer is because they're there and the challenge to do it.

Case in point, I put an S5 gas tank in my S4. Many would say why bother for just an additional 2 gallons of capacity. I did it first for the challenge, second for the entertainment value of doing it, and finally for the extra capacity. It was pretty easy actually.

Another, I asked questions as you did for research to fabricate an aftermarket XM unit AND at the same time an aftermarket CD changer in an A/B manner into a stock S4 head unit. Goal, I wanted the head unit to react to both as if it was talking to the stock CD changer and not via a radio signal fed through the antenna as I wanted the higher highs and lower lows lost through an FM modulator. Most on this forum would say that was dumb and I should just install a state of the art head unit that has XM and can control a companion changer. But that simply wouldn't have been as much fun. Sidebar, I fabricated a bluetooth hands free cell phone unit into the stock audio system.

Bottom line, if you want to add ABS, do it. Just take on the challenge with your eyes open as the above posters are helping to do. And if you can do it in a way to incorporate current technology in operation, so much the better. That was exactly my goal in what I did with my S4's sterio system.

Good luck, and have fun.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i think the main point is to sway away from the stock ABS system, there is better units out there that will likely take even less effort to install and work better.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

we did that too, on the race car those 2 gallons = 1 less pitstop in a 3 hour race, which is the difference between finishing on the podium and not.

so who's to say ABS is a dumb mod... there are a few people trying to add the wheel speed sensors so they can datalog stuff on their FC race cars. once you have the wheel speed sensors, ABS isn't that hard.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i would LOVE to go to the track (or other closed course) and see if you're right. we've never met i have no idea how you would do, but it would be neat to see