how easy should the wastegate actuater move?
12-06-03, 06:01 PM
#4
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The wastegate can't cause low boost. If it's open too early boost will be slower to rise but it'll still reach max boost.
Disconnect the actuator rod from the arm (little circlip) to see if the arm can move freely. The wastegate spring is quite stiff but you should be able to pull the rod out from the actuator.
Disconnect the actuator rod from the arm (little circlip) to see if the arm can move freely. The wastegate spring is quite stiff but you should be able to pull the rod out from the actuator.
12-06-03, 08:34 PM
#5
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Originally posted by NZConvertible
The wastegate can't cause low boost. If it's open too early boost will be slower to rise but it'll still reach max boost.
The wastegate can't cause low boost. If it's open too early boost will be slower to rise but it'll still reach max boost.
What?
Pop the WG cover off a turbo and try to hit full boost. Not gonna happen. If your WG is stuck wide open, a max boost of a couple few PSI is very likely. If your WG is ported this will be a even bigger problem, a stock S4 WG, with fairly free flowing system should get you a few pounds by redline. -Robert
12-06-03, 09:05 PM
#6
thats my problem, and what I've seen so far is that even when closed my wastegate is open about an 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch. WHat whould this cause and also I don't have twin scroll on my car so does this mean I can remove the twin scroll actuator at the bottom of the turbo and take out the flapper in the exhaust mani?
12-06-03, 09:09 PM
#7
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You can remove it, but you will have to put a bolt in the hole and have it welded in there. You don't want that hole there.
If it only openeing 1/8 in. you will lag, but it should still hit pretty high boost eventually. Have you got a boost controller? do you have an air compressor? check the funtion of the WG with air pressure (be real carefull, start very low) Thats a goo way to test the function of the internals of the WG .. moving it by hand is just testing the spring and the arm.
-Robert
If it only openeing 1/8 in. you will lag, but it should still hit pretty high boost eventually. Have you got a boost controller? do you have an air compressor? check the funtion of the WG with air pressure (be real carefull, start very low) Thats a goo way to test the function of the internals of the WG .. moving it by hand is just testing the spring and the arm.
-Robert
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12-06-03, 09:48 PM
#8
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Maybe NZConvertible isn't the whack job that someone might think after reading what he said. After all, just where is the waste gate on a normal car after you have reached full boost. Open. Think about it. I kinda think it's wide open. So if it's wide open at full boost........shouldn't the problem cited on this thread mean that he may not boost early....but when all is said and done at top end...the boost WILL be there at it's highest potential. Anyway... the kiwi is right.
12-06-03, 09:54 PM
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Look at what he says in his mods, he has a stock turbo with a ported wastegate. he will not hit full boost at any RPM like that. If, the wastegate is open all the way. Those twin scroll turbo's with the stock internls will just not produce enough to compensate for a ported wastegate that is stuck open.
12-06-03, 10:12 PM
#10
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Another thing. When a wastegate actuates on a normal car, it only open enough to relieve the current overboost. It also only opens long enough to relieve the current over boost. If it is open all the time it is relieveing all boost all the time, thus never building enough to perform properly.
-Robert
-Robert
12-06-03, 10:21 PM
#11
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Originally posted by Rpeck
Pop the WG cover off a turbo and try to hit full boost. Not gonna happen.
Pop the WG cover off a turbo and try to hit full boost. Not gonna happen.
...he has a stock turbo with a ported wastegate. he will not hit full boost at any RPM like that.
You should be a little more careful when raising the BS flag...
12-06-03, 11:09 PM
#12
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The wastegate does not open all the way insantly.. it opens gradualy until the boost is back down below the springs level, unless there is a huge boost spike.
What is the idea of porting the wastegate? Who would not port the wastegate to the point of it relieving creep? that defeats the purpose. how does it relive creep when done properly? By letting all the boost presure out the wastegate as opposed to turning the turbine. So a properly ported wastegate will relieve all pressure in the system above stock levels. Thus a wastegate that is open ll the time will not allow the turbo to even reach stock levels ..
I cannot see how you can agrue that point that a stuck wastegate will not cause poor max boost. I think maybe you should read the trouble shooting section of the 88 FSM turbo section, it also explains what I am sayin in plain english .. and that is a better senario considering that the FSM is talking about a stock WG. If the boost is leaking the whole time it will never build up enough pressure to max out before the engine runs out of RPM's .. this is such common sense, why argue it?
Also you need to keep in mind, we are talking about a stock compressor, stock turbine, and a larger than stock WG.
-Robert
What is the idea of porting the wastegate? Who would not port the wastegate to the point of it relieving creep? that defeats the purpose. how does it relive creep when done properly? By letting all the boost presure out the wastegate as opposed to turning the turbine. So a properly ported wastegate will relieve all pressure in the system above stock levels. Thus a wastegate that is open ll the time will not allow the turbo to even reach stock levels ..
I cannot see how you can agrue that point that a stuck wastegate will not cause poor max boost. I think maybe you should read the trouble shooting section of the 88 FSM turbo section, it also explains what I am sayin in plain english .. and that is a better senario considering that the FSM is talking about a stock WG. If the boost is leaking the whole time it will never build up enough pressure to max out before the engine runs out of RPM's .. this is such common sense, why argue it?
Also you need to keep in mind, we are talking about a stock compressor, stock turbine, and a larger than stock WG.
-Robert
Last edited by Rpeck; 12-06-03 at 11:19 PM.
12-06-03, 11:15 PM
#13
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I've had the c-clip fall off from the wastegate actuator that connects the actuator to the rod.
it was like spooling a t72, but it did reach max boost just really, really late.
it was like spooling a t72, but it did reach max boost just really, really late.
12-06-03, 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by gsracer
I've had the c-clip fall off from the wastegate actuator that connects the actuator to the rod.
it was like spooling a t72, but it did reach max boost just really, really late.
I've had the c-clip fall off from the wastegate actuator that connects the actuator to the rod.
it was like spooling a t72, but it did reach max boost just really, really late.
12-06-03, 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by NZConvertible
You should be a little more careful when raising the BS flag...
You should be a little more careful when raising the BS flag...
12-06-03, 11:27 PM
#16
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Direct from Turbonetics web site:
"Increased exhaust gas drives the turbine wheel faster, this provides the engine more air, producing more power. A limit is met once a pre-determined boost pressure is achieved. At this point the exhaust gas is redirected away from the turbine wheel, thus slowing it down and limiting the maximum boost pressure. This redirection valve is known as the wastegate."
Key on where it says "thus slowing it down and limiting the maximum boost pressure"
-Robert
"Increased exhaust gas drives the turbine wheel faster, this provides the engine more air, producing more power. A limit is met once a pre-determined boost pressure is achieved. At this point the exhaust gas is redirected away from the turbine wheel, thus slowing it down and limiting the maximum boost pressure. This redirection valve is known as the wastegate."
Key on where it says "thus slowing it down and limiting the maximum boost pressure"
-Robert
12-06-03, 11:36 PM
#18
so tell me, If I where to keep the wastegate closed at all times the turbo is supposed to spool to reall high psi. Well what psi might that be? I have fuel upgrades spark upgrades injector upgrades so I don't think It will hurt anything on the engine side but is this bad for the turbo also? I mean I know that it won't last as long but if it only hits like 12 psi I don't mind if the turbo only last a year, I'll get a hybrid after this one is shot. Oh yeah is there a reason to keep the twinn scroll flapper on? And is there a reason to keep the twin scroll actuator on? Thanks alot for your help!
12-07-03, 12:05 AM
#19
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I am not saying the wastegate is the only problem with your Turbo. But it is a good place to start, get it working properly and you will see an improvemnt in boost responce drymatically, also you WILL see more high end boost. Assuming your turbo is in good working condition. With your listed mods you should see at least 8-10 PSI on a proplery functioning system... my guess.
The twin scroll setup is rather useless, remove it if you have the ability and equipment to do so properly.
-Robert
The twin scroll setup is rather useless, remove it if you have the ability and equipment to do so properly.
-Robert
12-07-03, 04:02 AM
#20
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Robert, you're ignoring the obvious example I gave before. People with open exhaust/intake, ported wastegates and stock wastegate flaps still experience boost creep in higher gears even though the wastegate is fully open. It wouldn't matter whether these people held the wastegate fully open all the time, the turbo would still boost as high at it would normally, it would just take much longer to get there.
Even if hondahater's wastegate is sufficiently ported to hold boost down to 10psi, it'll only do that with the flap fully open. So how is the flap being stuck open going to lower this max boost to only 2psi? Please explain.
Even if hondahater's wastegate is sufficiently ported to hold boost down to 10psi, it'll only do that with the flap fully open. So how is the flap being stuck open going to lower this max boost to only 2psi? Please explain.
12-07-03, 10:29 AM
#21
If I didn't get boost till 5 or 6 k rpm that would be an improvment over what I have now. THe only boost I'm getting is 1 to 2 psi throughout the intire rpm range. so there has to be another issue somwhere besides the wastegate right? Also from what you are saying I can remove the twin scroll actuator from the botom of the turbo and the flapper and put a bold where? Thanks. Anything else to check while the turbo is off? THanks.