HELP Get my car to turn over!
02-20-09, 07:29 AM
#1
HELP Get my car to turn over!
Well its a long story to explain everything but here it goes.
4 years ago i bought a custom 86 base model, it had a blown S4 T2 motor in it that i was able to crank but not start because of low compression. After all these years i finally bought a 87 base model that ran good and deiced to swap the whole engine,tranny,and harness over to my 86 rx7. Now i have it all in and wired up to the best of my knowledge. Right now i dont have a fuel pump or the fuel line hooked up but i should be able to turn the engine over anyways, right? When i go to crank it nothing happens, no click no nothing. I know my starter and battery are good, this whole package came out of a running car. I checked my grounds,fuses and everything that i could think of. What i would like to know is everything needed to be plugged in just to get the engine to crank. Im thinking its a relay or something but i dont know where to start! Im at the point where i want to give up since im at a loss but now its time your the forums help before i ditch the project. If i cant get her to crank by the time the weekend is over im going to be very upset. So please anyone here on the forum with great knowledge please give all the input you can! Thanks, Nick
4 years ago i bought a custom 86 base model, it had a blown S4 T2 motor in it that i was able to crank but not start because of low compression. After all these years i finally bought a 87 base model that ran good and deiced to swap the whole engine,tranny,and harness over to my 86 rx7. Now i have it all in and wired up to the best of my knowledge. Right now i dont have a fuel pump or the fuel line hooked up but i should be able to turn the engine over anyways, right? When i go to crank it nothing happens, no click no nothing. I know my starter and battery are good, this whole package came out of a running car. I checked my grounds,fuses and everything that i could think of. What i would like to know is everything needed to be plugged in just to get the engine to crank. Im thinking its a relay or something but i dont know where to start! Im at the point where i want to give up since im at a loss but now its time your the forums help before i ditch the project. If i cant get her to crank by the time the weekend is over im going to be very upset. So please anyone here on the forum with great knowledge please give all the input you can! Thanks, Nick
02-20-09, 11:07 AM
#2
well rested,buffet o food
Dont give up yet, time consuming (hopefully) part is done. Check power at the starter and trace the circuit back from that point. Do you have any lights at all/ power to anything?
john ny
john ny
02-20-09, 01:30 PM
#3
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I bet ya that you hooked up the Starter wires(Ground onto the Big starter bolt from the Harness,and the Big Positive wire to the starter),BUT forgot about the Solenoid wire.
If that isn't hooked up,when you turn the key: absolutely NOTHING happens!
If that isn't hooked up,when you turn the key: absolutely NOTHING happens!
02-20-09, 06:35 PM
#6
I know fuses are good, power and ground properly hooked up, solenoid wire is plugged in, head lights are working fine, tried giving the starter a whack(even tho i know it was fine before the swap), battery is properly hooked up obviously if my lights work. Im at a loss. How exactly do i test to see if power is going to the starter?!!!!
02-20-09, 07:54 PM
#7
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There is ONE wire that feeds the ignition switch, and that one wire is what determines if anything happens when you hold the key to START.
The headlights etc will all work fine even if this one wire is cut intwo or disconnected.
This wire is often found pulled apart about six inches below the engine bay fuse box. It's a single wire connector. Black wire.
We know you already checked the Main Fuse so go look for the wire I just mentioned.
This black wire runs from the engine bay fuse box to the ignition switch plugs. Those plugs are located about a half foot from the switch itself. The black wire is coupled with a black/white wire if I remember right. Memory.
The headlights etc will all work fine even if this one wire is cut intwo or disconnected.
This wire is often found pulled apart about six inches below the engine bay fuse box. It's a single wire connector. Black wire.
We know you already checked the Main Fuse so go look for the wire I just mentioned.
This black wire runs from the engine bay fuse box to the ignition switch plugs. Those plugs are located about a half foot from the switch itself. The black wire is coupled with a black/white wire if I remember right. Memory.
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02-21-09, 12:23 PM
#9
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No, no relays other than the starter solenoid. Goes from the Main fuse........to the ignition switch.........turn key to Start.........to the clutch interlock switch............to the Starter Cut Relay (only IF your car has factory Theft Protection............to the starter solenoid.
So I just contradicted myself. There is a Starter Cut Relay on some cars and there is the clutch interlock switch to consider.
Tell you what. To prove that the BLACK wire from the Main Fuse to the igniton switch is any good, just turn the key to ON/engine OFF, and see if the wipers work. IF they do, then the BLACK wire isn't the problem. Also the heater/blower won't work if the Black wire isn't feeding the ignition switch.
Horn will work. Headlights will work. Side lights will work..because they don't get power thru the ignition switch.
But I think you said you don't hear any click when the key is put to ON. IF you hear a click when going from Off to ON, then the black wire is intact. The click would be the Main Relay pulling in.
EDIT: Most if not all 86 don't have that clutch interlock switch. I even have a 87Turbo that does not have that *feature* (thank God).
Another hint: The Trail coil is held in with but three 10mm nuts. Remove the nuts and lift the Trail coil assy up and out of the way. No need to remove the wires. Below that assy you'll see a Bright BLUE connector with a jumper wire in it. IF you see that, then there is no Starter Cut Relay. But if you pull that Blue plug off, and find the large Black/White wire in the plug, you can jumper a wire b/t the battery positive post to that Black/White wire in the plug and the starter will turn the engine over. No key needed. Nothing but putting power to the Black/White wire (transmission out of gear or you'll run your foot over).
So I just contradicted myself. There is a Starter Cut Relay on some cars and there is the clutch interlock switch to consider.
Tell you what. To prove that the BLACK wire from the Main Fuse to the igniton switch is any good, just turn the key to ON/engine OFF, and see if the wipers work. IF they do, then the BLACK wire isn't the problem. Also the heater/blower won't work if the Black wire isn't feeding the ignition switch.
Horn will work. Headlights will work. Side lights will work..because they don't get power thru the ignition switch.
But I think you said you don't hear any click when the key is put to ON. IF you hear a click when going from Off to ON, then the black wire is intact. The click would be the Main Relay pulling in.
EDIT: Most if not all 86 don't have that clutch interlock switch. I even have a 87Turbo that does not have that *feature* (thank God).
Another hint: The Trail coil is held in with but three 10mm nuts. Remove the nuts and lift the Trail coil assy up and out of the way. No need to remove the wires. Below that assy you'll see a Bright BLUE connector with a jumper wire in it. IF you see that, then there is no Starter Cut Relay. But if you pull that Blue plug off, and find the large Black/White wire in the plug, you can jumper a wire b/t the battery positive post to that Black/White wire in the plug and the starter will turn the engine over. No key needed. Nothing but putting power to the Black/White wire (transmission out of gear or you'll run your foot over).
02-21-09, 12:27 PM
#11
Yup no clicking and if i recall i don't think my wiper work either sooooo i guess it is this black wire you are talking about. Deff going to be looking into this black wire you speak of. Just have to walk to my father's where the car is ahhhh such a long walk. Will get updates later on tonight. THANKS HAILERS!!
02-21-09, 12:39 PM
#13
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Yup no clicking and if i recall i don't think my wiper work either sooooo i guess it is this black wire you are talking about. Deff going to be looking into this black wire you speak of. Just have to walk to my father's where the car is ahhhh such a long walk. Will get updates later on tonight. THANKS HAILERS!!
I added some things to my post above this one that you might have missed. IF you have no wipers nor any heater blower motor when the key is to ON, then the Black wire is disconnected. I'll add a jpg later of the connector.
OOOPS. If the small wire on the starter solenoid is disconnected from the starter solenoid, the heater blower motor on a 86-87 can't work (Ign relay on the heater case). So look at the wipers since they are not dependent on that.
02-21-09, 12:47 PM
#14
So i need to have my heater core plugged in also? Right now i do have it off the car because i had to wire up the engine harness to the ecu and that was in my way. I had the trailing coil pack off the car before and i dont recall seeing a bright blue connector, will check about that again later on. If i can get a pic of this black wire you speak of then i should be able to find it no problem. Just dont want to start walking to my fathers house till i can get as much info as possible. - Nick
Also i didnt really wack the starter hard or a lot of times are all....im pretty sure it would still be good. but i do have a spare just in case.
Also i didnt really wack the starter hard or a lot of times are all....im pretty sure it would still be good. but i do have a spare just in case.
02-21-09, 12:54 PM
#15
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No. The heater core does not need to be installed. I was just trying to say that it won't work if installed because it has a relay that depends on seeing a ground signal thru the starter solenoid. Just forget the heater all together. Forget the heater. Sorry.
But try the wipers. IF they don't work with the key ON, then go look for the black wires.
See the jpgs I attached to my post above this one.
If a starter just goes click, click, click each time you try to start, then smacking it with a hammer has worked for me BECAUSE the carbon brushes inside were worn to a nub and striking the starter helped seat the carbon brushes for at least one start. THIS IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM since you don't even hear a click when going to ON.
Answer this: do the wipers work when the key is to ON???????????
But try the wipers. IF they don't work with the key ON, then go look for the black wires.
See the jpgs I attached to my post above this one.
If a starter just goes click, click, click each time you try to start, then smacking it with a hammer has worked for me BECAUSE the carbon brushes inside were worn to a nub and striking the starter helped seat the carbon brushes for at least one start. THIS IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM since you don't even hear a click when going to ON.
Answer this: do the wipers work when the key is to ON???????????
02-21-09, 01:03 PM
#16
Hmmm from the pics i dont recall ever seeing this black wire on my harness but it has to be there. I even have a spare "starter harness" i guess you can say and i dont remember seeing it on there either. As for the blue connector i really dont think i have this at all. Thanks a bunch for the pics HAILERS! Deff came through for me on this info! You sir are the man!
02-21-09, 01:20 PM
#17
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What I'm trying to get across, is that the starter solenoid gets it's power from the ignition switch.
You can prove that power is there or is not there, by putting the key to ON and turning the wipers on. IF the wipers work, then there is power to the ignition switch.
IF the wipers work, then the problem is b/t the ignition switch and the starter solenoid. So you trouble shoot that line of items.
If you have a meter, then you could pull the small wire off the starter solenoid. Put the meter on it and hold the key to Start. If you see approx batt voltage, then the solenoid might be the problem.
But you say you hear nothing when going to ON, so I suspecvt that small black connector is disconnected.
I attach a jpg of the Interior fuse box. It's split into three sections. One section has power on it all the time. The other two secitons get FED from the ignition switch. So if items/fuses in those sections don't work when the key is ON, then the problem goes back to the ignition switch not being powered up. Which in turn means that's the starter problem.
Headlights and side lights don't depend on the ignition switch or interior fuse box. Them working tells nothing about if the ignition switch is getting power.
MAIN FUSE has to be good for the starter to work. The headlights are not dependent on the Main Fuse.
You can prove that power is there or is not there, by putting the key to ON and turning the wipers on. IF the wipers work, then there is power to the ignition switch.
IF the wipers work, then the problem is b/t the ignition switch and the starter solenoid. So you trouble shoot that line of items.
If you have a meter, then you could pull the small wire off the starter solenoid. Put the meter on it and hold the key to Start. If you see approx batt voltage, then the solenoid might be the problem.
But you say you hear nothing when going to ON, so I suspecvt that small black connector is disconnected.
I attach a jpg of the Interior fuse box. It's split into three sections. One section has power on it all the time. The other two secitons get FED from the ignition switch. So if items/fuses in those sections don't work when the key is ON, then the problem goes back to the ignition switch not being powered up. Which in turn means that's the starter problem.
Headlights and side lights don't depend on the ignition switch or interior fuse box. Them working tells nothing about if the ignition switch is getting power.
MAIN FUSE has to be good for the starter to work. The headlights are not dependent on the Main Fuse.
02-21-09, 03:49 PM
#18
SHE CRANKS!
Yeah, didnt have that black wired plugged in(DOH). After i plugged it in i got it to click. After checking over my battery it turned out to be weak. Put a charger to the battery and she cranks! Now just need to put the fuel pump in, new fuel filter and a few various things then hopefully she will start. Thank you a bunch HAILERS, you have saved my day!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, didnt have that black wired plugged in(DOH). After i plugged it in i got it to click. After checking over my battery it turned out to be weak. Put a charger to the battery and she cranks! Now just need to put the fuel pump in, new fuel filter and a few various things then hopefully she will start. Thank you a bunch HAILERS, you have saved my day!!!!!!!!!!
02-21-09, 04:26 PM
#19
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I learned about that small black wire and plug 380mi from home on Bird Island Basin in Corpus Christi. Middle of nowhere and the car wouldn't start or click or do much of anything. I found that plug kinda burnt up/shriveled up. I blame the previous owner having done something irregular when he owned the car. A lesson one never forgets about.
02-22-09, 06:48 PM
#21
UPDATE:
Alright everyone, i rather keep this thread going instead of starting a new one because i feel it can help others in the future.
Im at the point where im getting fuel to the engine but the injectors aren't firing.
(I know the pump is doing its job and my plugs are bone dry) My step dad tested power to the primary injector clip and nadda.
Also my leading coil pack if i recall(one closest to the head light) aren't firing. My clip to this coil pack is broken, its just two actual wires i plugged into the coil pack.(even swapped the 2 wires around to this clip and nadda)
What does it take to make my injectors fire?
The whole long block, engine harness,ecu is from the same was and was perfectly running fine before swapping.
I need this car to run asap! Any help would be great. - Nick
Alright everyone, i rather keep this thread going instead of starting a new one because i feel it can help others in the future.
Im at the point where im getting fuel to the engine but the injectors aren't firing.
(I know the pump is doing its job and my plugs are bone dry) My step dad tested power to the primary injector clip and nadda.
Also my leading coil pack if i recall(one closest to the head light) aren't firing. My clip to this coil pack is broken, its just two actual wires i plugged into the coil pack.(even swapped the 2 wires around to this clip and nadda)
What does it take to make my injectors fire?
The whole long block, engine harness,ecu is from the same was and was perfectly running fine before swapping.
I need this car to run asap! Any help would be great. - Nick
02-22-09, 09:11 PM
#22
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The fuel injectors are fed from the EGI injector fuse in the engine bay. The coils are also fed from the EGI Injector fuse in the engine bay fuse box.
The power goes from the EGI Inj to the Main Relay............from the Main Relay to the coils and the injector plugs. The ENGINE fuse in the interior has to be good for that to happen because IT powers the Main Relay coil.
The EGI COMP feeds the ECU itself thru the Main Relay. Either of those fuses out would mean no spark.
Can't be the ENGINE fuse because you say the fuel pump works and I assume you didn't mess with the wiring to the pump. Engine fuse also powers the fuel pump thru the Circuit Opening Relay. So if you have the pump, then the Engine fuse is good.
The yellow/black wire on the lead coil assy two wire plug comes off the Main RElay. See if that wire has power on it. That'll tell you which way to go. It'll tell you if the Main Relay is pulling in or not. GOt power......main relay is pulling in. NO power......main relay isn't pulling in.
With the key to ON, one wire in each injector plug will have power. What makes the injectors work is the ECU putting a gnd on the other injector wire.
It works just like the jpg attached. Pay no attention to the green line on the dwg.
The ground for the Main Relays coil is beneath the Trai Coil assy. Its a black plug with black wires (5-6) and that plug is connected to a metal six prong outfit that is bolted to the aft side of the left front strut tower. No ground junciton equals no Main Relay pulling in.
The power goes from the EGI Inj to the Main Relay............from the Main Relay to the coils and the injector plugs. The ENGINE fuse in the interior has to be good for that to happen because IT powers the Main Relay coil.
The EGI COMP feeds the ECU itself thru the Main Relay. Either of those fuses out would mean no spark.
Can't be the ENGINE fuse because you say the fuel pump works and I assume you didn't mess with the wiring to the pump. Engine fuse also powers the fuel pump thru the Circuit Opening Relay. So if you have the pump, then the Engine fuse is good.
The yellow/black wire on the lead coil assy two wire plug comes off the Main RElay. See if that wire has power on it. That'll tell you which way to go. It'll tell you if the Main Relay is pulling in or not. GOt power......main relay is pulling in. NO power......main relay isn't pulling in.
With the key to ON, one wire in each injector plug will have power. What makes the injectors work is the ECU putting a gnd on the other injector wire.
It works just like the jpg attached. Pay no attention to the green line on the dwg.
The ground for the Main Relays coil is beneath the Trai Coil assy. Its a black plug with black wires (5-6) and that plug is connected to a metal six prong outfit that is bolted to the aft side of the left front strut tower. No ground junciton equals no Main Relay pulling in.
02-28-09, 11:11 AM
#24
Going to my fathers house right now to test a few things but i got a few questions i want to ask before i go.
I read on other thread a few days ago that there are two egi comp fuses? One in the engine bay and one underneath the dash? I do not recall a egi comp fuse under the dash. Also you said the coils and injectors are fed through the EGI Injector fuse. How come i have power to the leading coil but not the injectors or trailing coil? A bit confused there. I know the main relay ground is plugged in, engine fuse is good, and the tach jumps when trying to start. Any more info while im gone would be great. Will deff be undated later today when i return. - Nick
I read on other thread a few days ago that there are two egi comp fuses? One in the engine bay and one underneath the dash? I do not recall a egi comp fuse under the dash. Also you said the coils and injectors are fed through the EGI Injector fuse. How come i have power to the leading coil but not the injectors or trailing coil? A bit confused there. I know the main relay ground is plugged in, engine fuse is good, and the tach jumps when trying to start. Any more info while im gone would be great. Will deff be undated later today when i return. - Nick
02-28-09, 04:09 PM
#25
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On a series four there are two EGI fuses in the engine bay fuse box. One is EGI Computer and the other EGI INJ.
There is a ORNAGE plug in the passengers foot well that is inbetween the injectors and the EGI fuse. See the jpg I attached earlier.
If the coils have the power, then the fuse is good so it must be??? the orange plug off?
There is a ORNAGE plug in the passengers foot well that is inbetween the injectors and the EGI fuse. See the jpg I attached earlier.
If the coils have the power, then the fuse is good so it must be??? the orange plug off?