cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

Ok, heres the full story. I drove my car to penn state over the weekend, it ran like a champ in the 26 degree weather. Had zero problems. The car is an 88 mazda turbo II. The following modifications are done to it:

NEW Atkins rebuild, 14k on it. (I am NOT the original purchaser)

- removed -
acv
egr
aws
bac
airpump
split air pipe
main cat
precat
cold start assist
thermowax
rats nest

- mods -
2.5" dp
2.5" midpipe
2.5" cat back
ebay muffler
tb mod
ported tb
fcd
corksport ss oil cooler lines
cone filter
walboro fuel pump
apexi autotimer
panasonic headunit
autometer phantom series boost gauge

many many new Mazda parts.

So, I go out to start her today, she fires, sounds normal, I warm it up a little, and drive off to school. I get about....7 or 8 miles out, and the exhaust note changes drastically. The car goes from normal, to subaru with an exhaust sounding.

I'm like, "no, you didn't just do that." So, I pull into a lot, and shut her down. Fire it back up, sounds like crud at idle. So, I proceed to the farm to get the compression tester and head home. At idle (about 450rpm) the car pulled 10psi vacum. Now, its pulling about 5psi-0. Under throttle, it sounds like poop. When downshifting, it sounds normal. The car still runs ok...I can drive it right now, go as fast as I want. It still seems to be making decent power.

I get home, pull the trailing plugs with the motor still warm. Pull the EGI fuse. I test the front rotor (piston tester), bounc bounce bounce, 90psi. Test the rear rotor bounce, bounce, bounce, about 75-80ish psi. The bounces on the rear rotor are uneven, so I fear the worst. I am not sure how accurate or how good the gauge is, and I am not sure I did the test correctly. I had both trailing plugs pulled, and them one at a time, cranked the motor, watched the gauge for three bounces.

So....I don't know. The car was running rich as a pig, so I can't see it not getting enough fuel. I am not really sure what the problem is. I believe the motor to be blown, end of story. But is is possible an injector is bad (all 4 are new with the motor) or there is a vacum leak? Help and advice are appreciated. I still owe money on the car, and I can't afford to replace the motor at this time, so if its blown, shes sitting for about a year.

Thanks,
Chris

Whizbang

sorry to hear that man! :'(

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

haha, your telling me.

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

Re-testing correctly according to rotary resurrection's site. BRB with the results....

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

re-tested, with the assistance of Mom (thanks mom!!) got 98 front, 95-98 rear on a cold motor, I am still paranoid, so I'll re-test it again. But, thats a relief.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Check to be sure all plugs are receiving a signal and are firing correctly. With engine at idle, pull the electrical connection on the leading igniter. If trailing plugs are are firing, idle will drop, but the car will continue to idle. Then try the reverse. Reconnect the leading igniter, then remove the electrical connection on the trailing igniter. See what occurs.

TurboIIRyan

Actually sounds like a major vacuum leak. check your TID, block off plates, vacuum lines you have left, intake mani gaskets, and vacuum caps (I had a problem with these popping off from time to time)

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

You didn't by chance buy that black car out of ohio did you? I've worked on that car before when it did this. IT had so much rust in the fuel system it clogged the (brand new) injectors. Check there first. Pull the UIM, pull the lower injector rail and tie them to the rail, put a pan underneath them, have someone crank, and watch what comes out. It should be a fairly forceful spray in a cone pattern, front-back-front-back nice and even with no drops (think about a new shower head). IF only a little bit comes out then the injectors are severely clogged (think about a kitchen faucet left on just a little bit to dribble).

Whizbang

He did buy it out of ohio. He picked it up after he dropped off my car.

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

I purchased the car out of cleveland off a forum member, yes Kevin, its the car you worked on. Its cloead's old car. It gave me ZERO problems until now. I will follow through and do everything suggested so far. I've put about 2k or more on it with no issue, so it confuses me as to why its giving me a problem now. I just don't want to give the impression its a bad car, or bad mouth Bill (Cloead). I did however replace the fuel pump with a walboro unit. The fuel tank and pump was previsouly replaced as well. When I installed the walboro the tank was spotless.

I have a short video (42 seconds) of the car at idle, and under some moderate throttle (to about 3-4k rpm). (Email me at L.STAHLMAN@COMCAST.NET) or AOLIM me at CDSPORSCHETURBO and I can send it.) Inside and from the rear of the car shots. I have to go to work shortly, so shes going to have to sit until I have spare time. At least the compression checks out. I'll check the injectors when I get home, or tomorrow afternoon.

She fires right up, and will take gas, just sounds like heck when given any. I can drive her down the street, take her up to speed, no problem. I checked the vacum lines, none of them appear to have shot off. I'll give it a good once over, this evening and tomorrow.

Thanks to all for the advice, it is greatly appreciated!

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

I don't know if this is significant or not. I was checking for vacum leaks, and checked the throttle body, and the elbow, and make sure that there was a good seal there. When I got back into the car to fire it, it started, but my gas pedal had nothing. So, I check out the throttle cable, theres a good amount of play in it. Its not broken, but just a ton of slack. So I adjust it to where I am able to operate the pedal. Fire the car, still running crappy as expected. A friend of mine said that possibly the TPS is out of adjustment? Is that another possability? Were going to check it anyway. I have another TII TPS thankfully.

Oh, and I did what TURBONUT suggested. I pulled the REAR (NEAR FIREWALL) igniter wires (Trailing?, can't rem. right now) and the car still ran. So I hook them back up. I then pull the leading (front igniter, NEAR HEADLIGHT) and the car dies. I shocked the hell out of myself a few times, and I tried it a few times with the same result. The car dies when the front igniter is disconnected. So, is that igniter bad?

Thats where I am at so far, the car will fire on the first crank, will drive, makes good power still. The plugs were black when I pulled them for the compression test, I sandblasted them, because they are about 2 weeks old and I didn't feel like getting new ones right now. Any further advice is appreciated. I appreciate the time everyone has taken to help me out.

Kevin, I'll try your injector advice out tomorrow.

Thanks,
Chris

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

get an old spark plug and put it into each of the trailing plug boots(trailing is the rear coil near the firewall), lay the spark plug onto a good ground and crank the engine, it should spark, test both trailing coils. the trailing coil i dont think can support firing the engine alone so removing the leading coil wires i would expect tht engine to die. test the trailing coils and get back to us.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Your throttle cable has nothing to do with the running quality of the car.

There is no front and rear ignitor or coil. There are trailing (f and r together) and leading (f and r together). Perhaps a wire is bad, or a plug is fouled. One chamber (the one that didnt kill the engine) isn't getting one of the key ingredients to combustion...compression, spark, or fuel.

I guess it's still possible you have a vacuum leak somewhere, though.

Kingofl337

It sound by his test that he was testing the rotors. The car ran running off the front rotor and died running off the rear. But it could have been flooded from fuel and no spark from the 1st test.

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

I guess I didn't explain what I did sufficently. Ok, the LEADING IGNITER BOX (I'm just going by what it says: "coil and igniter on" the "igniter box") is the one I pulled the plug wires from the second time, and the motor died. I pulled the REAR LEADING plug wire from the igniter first, then the FRONT LEADING plug wire from the igniter. When both wires are removed from the LEADING IGNITER box the motor dies. The REAR plug coil on the LEADING igniter arced a bit, and tried to throw spark at anything it could. Specifically my hand...heh.

When I pulled the plug wires from the TRAILING IGNITER BOX, the motor still ran, idle lowered, but ran. I will check the plugs, sand blast them, etc. When the wires were pulled from the igniter box, the sparks stayed contained within the igniter, they didn't attempt to arc to other surfaces, etc.

KARACK, I'll test the TRAILING IGNITER as you suggested and post my results.

Thanks for the help,
Chris

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

did you test what kevin said about the rust in the fuel???

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

Getting there, ill post my results tonight/tomorrow/end of week. Gotta do school work for now.

Thanks,
Chris

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Oh, so you just unplugged coils, not the plugs themselves. An engine will run fine on just leadings, and no trailings. But an engine will not run on just trailings, at all. So your test really didnt tell you anything. For reference, the leading coil, even though in front of the car, controls both leading plugs on both rotors, and the trailing controls both trailings on both rotors. SO your test didnt really do anything.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

For the first time I've got to disagree with Kevin. They should run on the trailing only. Long story short. Bought a '88TII new and in 1200 miles the trailing plugs went out. Don't want to get into all the tests, but installed new ones. Car ran fine on only trailing one of the tests I did.. In another few hundred miles they went out again. Now Mazda sends a rep to the dealers. I have a letter from NGK stating that Mazda & NGK engineers, at that time, were working on the problem, but have no solution. The rep arrives and hooks up his Snap On light. Tells me the plugs are firing. I hook up my light no fire. FYI Snap On equip will pick up min voltage even though the plugs don't fire. I pull the leading igniter connector, car dies. They install new plugs and with leading igniter disconnected, car runs. They have a huddle.
Agree there is a problem and offer to replace the car with a '89 when they come out. That's how I got my S5 TII.

cloead

Hey,

Kevin, I cleaned that fuel system completely.. it took forever but it has to be spotless.. theres no were for the rust to be hiding anymore. Sorry about your luck Chris, I feel bad Good luck though. If you need a hand or anything let me know.

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

UPDATE:

I checked each wire for spark by grounding to the strut tower. I used one of the old trailing and leading plugs that I pulled from the car to test each wire respectively. Trailing front and rear, and leading front and rear. Each one is putting out spark, through a plug. EX: Pulled rear trailing wire, all other 3 connected to motor, fired motor, rear trailing spark. Did the same for each. So, I don't know.

The motor is very flooded at this point, will still fire, but still runs like crap. I have the intercooler and upper intake manifold pulled at this point, and am going to check the injectors like Kevin recommended.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Chris

88t2romad

im just pretty miuch ruling out a BIG vacuum leak bnecause if it did have one, it WOULD not hald an idle for more than 5 seconds, i recently had one (that is covered my ductape now) that was on the intercooler. Maybeit is a small vacuum leak, also check your turbo...maybe the manifold cracked or somehting......good luck to a fellow t2 owner.....lol

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

man nice job on getting an s5!!!

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

Never even thought of checking the turbo or turbo manifold, the manifold is brand new, or newer I believe. I'm done for the evening though, I'll tinker at her daily, and put most of my effort in saturday. At least I don't have to drive her daily, although I was until now, and wish I could but alas, winter is nearing. I'm convinced its something micky mouse though, I'm just happy she has good compression, and that the motor was not blown.

Oh, is there a ground for the leading igniter? (igniter near headlight) Where is it? Could this be a problem? Also, T1 and L1 go to the front rotor, and T2 and L2 go to the rear rotor correct? (wire wise) I checked to make sure all my wiring connections were in tact, my CAS wire is fine, and everything appears plugged in. I also checked all of the fuses and they are ok as well. Thanks once again for all the help and support.

Thank you,
Chris


**P.S. The motor dies when ONLY the L1 wire is pulled from the leading igniter. When L2 is pulled, the motor will still run, it sparks to the green connectors, or the battery cable. I pushed the green connectors back, and tried to stop it from sparking to anything else, and it still runs. If re-connected and L2 pulled, motor immediately dies. However, there is spark from L2 when I tested it with a spare plug and grounded it. Beats me.**

**Motor still runs when either T1 or T2 wires are pulled directly from the igniter.**

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

That tells you that the front rotor is carrying the engine most of the time. Without it, the engine dies. The rear must not be working properly, which is why the engine is indifferent to losing spark on that one. Sounds like a fuel problem, or a vacuum leak.

The coils get their ground from the engine...the coil supplies a + spark, the plug which is bolted to the block serves as the ground, and the arc between is what makes your engine run