TantricScorpio

Do you all think that by using the E6K I can gain a lot of power? I plan on rebuilding my TII motor and then use the Haltech on that. How much HP do you think I can gain in my n/a by using the Haltech? Thanks

RETed

Grassroots Motorsports magazine stuff an Electromotive TEC2 on a 1st gen GSL-SE and got it to run in the mid 13's at over 100mph+!

Most of the gains are from remving the restrictive airflow meter and adjusting the fuel and ignition maps. The stock ECU's run a very conservative ignition timing map, so running more aggressive numbers will make for a quicker car.

Bottom line, 20hp (at the wheels) would not surprise me.


-Ted

Evil Aviator

I have some friends using a Wolf3D EMS on their non-ported NA 13B engines, and their cars not only get better gas mileage than with the stock computer, but they are also faster than a stock TII. The E6K should yield similar results, but the Wolf is a little easier to swap between NA and TII cars because its stock MAP sensor will work for both, while the Haltech will need a 1Bar sensor for the NA and a 2 or 3Bar sensor for the TII. The main factor in making power with an EMS is the tuning, so make sure you set aside some money for professional tuning.

RETed

K2RD has schematics to utilize the stock MAP sensors for NA and turbo. Since you're already NA, you can use the stock NA MAP sensor and rewire via K2RD's diagrams. The GM 2bar MAP sensor that the Haltech uses is like $50 brand new, and any GM dealer can get them for you reasonably easily.

I'm not too keen on running both turbo (+ pressure) and non-turbo (up to "0" pressure) on the same sensor, as resolution is surely degraded?


-Ted

Evil Aviator

It works great on the Wolf. Yes, the Wolf's stock MAP sensor is not using its full range on an NA application, but the full range of load bands in the software are still available for tuning because the software can be rescaled. In theory, you would think that the MAP sensor would not be as accurate because of its narrower useable band of output, but in practice it works really well. The Wolf can also use external MAP sensors like the Haltech, but I don't see any need for this except for high-boost applications that exceed the capabilities of the Wolf MAP sensor.

I do agree that the price of another MAP sensor is a drop in the bucket when compared to the price of the EMS and the other go-fast goodies that are probably on the car.

RETed

Ah, so the Wolf rescales the maps internally versus the lower voltage range from the built-in sensor. That is better, but the narrower voltage range would still hurt resolution versus a dedicate MAP sensor. I still haven't tuned an NA application, but most important would be the area around the "0" pressure point. It might be moot, as 0 is 0 no matter what and the Haltech can map versus TPS as the MAP sensor becomes a secondary load sensor.

Me and Evil Aviator can go talking about this **** all day...


-Ted

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

I broke my ported hybrid TII set-up in as an NA on the Haltech w/ 3 bar map sensor (so, utylizing just 1/4 of the full available Haltech resolution.)

It was terrible tuning resolution, but it was still way faster and more responsive than my old lightly modded 6 port NA.

One problem was I could never get my staged 1600cc 2ndaries to transition in smoothly, so I had to set them up to come in late so I was almost always on the 720cc primaries-

but just the fact that it would max out the 2 720cc inj. ~5000rpm is impressive. I believe that is ~200hp?

TantricScorpio

Wow, you guys sound like you definately know what you're talking about. I plan on buying a Haltech, but do you guys think Wolf or some other computer is better? Thanks a lot for your input. I appreciate it.-Steve

RETed

Oh, I don't think you want to get into a debate about which one is better.

My suggestion to you is to find a brand that is heavily supported by a tuner locally - this will get you the best satisfaction of the product. Sales without the support gets you into a lot of frustration. Take a peek at the ECU sections if you're seriously interested.

I'm partial to Haltech systems, but there are several others comparable brands out there also. Others include Wolf, Microtech, Electromotive TEC3, Autronic, etc. - in NO particular order.



-Ted

Evil Aviator

I would think so, but the Wolf runs the 13B NA so well with the stock MAP sensor that I can't see how it could possibly run any better. Sometime when my friends and I are bored we need to slap a 1Bar sensor on the Wolf and see if it makes any difference. Until then, it's definitely not broken, so there is no point in fixing it.

I guess you were referencing the Haltech "Full Throttle Map" function for NA engines. Further proof that a MAP sensor that reads above 0 MAP isn't such a bad thing.

My perception is that the mid-load values require a little more tuning. There seems to be only a slight change in injector pulsewidths in the top couple of load bands (at least in stock-ported 13B NA S4 engines). There are two ported NA engines in the works at the garage that I frequent, so I will soon see if there are any significant differences due to the porting.

It's a very valid point. The Wolf also has an Idle Lock function that does basically the same thing as the Haltech Zero Throttle function. BTW, the Wolf's Load and Transient functions can be independently selected as MAP (Internal or External), MAF, or TPS.

Fun stuff.

We actually just throw around a lot of fancy technical terms so that people think we are smart. Most of my posts are really just slightly re-worded Monty Python skits, and RETed cuts and pastes his responses from Star Trek episode scripts that he finds on the internet. Seriously though, you should not completely trust everything you read on the internet. "Trust, but Verify" - Ronaldus Magnus.

I agree with RETed. It's usually best to just buy whatever your tuner likes. Just note that tuning an EMS is extremely difficult for someone who does not have a solid background in internal combustion engines. I have a decent background, and I still don't tune my automotive engines without help from my tuning gurus. Be sure to do some research on your own, and talk to your tuner before you blow a grand or two on an EMS.