darksider

hyper ground wires cost 100. is there a reason for that?? can i just make the ones in the groundwire thread and have the same results? ive seen a set for a prelude a civic ect. can i just get thoses and comstumize them or do they have to be a certain length. thankyou

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

You can make your own...keep in mind that high grade 4 gauge cable costs 2.50 per foot most of the time...connectors are about a buck each. To do a decent job you need about 15-18 feet of cable (for ground plus charge wires) and 12-14 terminals. So you're looking at a good 65 or 70 dollars to make a quality setup yourself. The good thing is that you can measure and make your wires according to how you want to route them, to avoid left over slack.

See my writeup at www.rotaryresurrection.com ---> tech ---> ground wire how to

NZConvertible

Think about what a ground wire does, and you'll realise that those kits do nothing different at any other decent sized bit of wire bolted to the engine and the chassis.

The reason they're so expensive is because they're being marketed by crooks, liars and conmen...

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

I have had instances where multiple groundwires with clean connections solved various issues with a car's electrical system. I usually hit the important spots; starter, alternator, wiring harness ground clip, and chassis.

I agree that the mod does not offer any performance gain *if you did not have a problem to begin with*, however, *if you had a ground/charge wire connection/current carrying issue before* the mod will make a nice difference.

darksider

i thought those hyper groundwires has some specail material that made them charge better but i guess not.

RotaryResurrection "See my writeup at www.rotaryresurrection.com ---> tech ---> ground wire how to"

do your ground points match the same points on the groundwire thread in this forum??

if not why so? different ground points have better results for n/a and turbo? different ground points have better results for different year/model/generations? thanks

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

I am not familiar with this "ground wire thread" you are speaking of, but I believe my profession and experience qualifies me to determine what does and does not need to be done.

All EFI rotaries have the same basic ground/charge connection needs as stated there. You can use them for whatever, but the ones listed are the most important for our cars.

lastphaseofthis

iTrader: (8)

one of the key things i did to my 7 was to reground it. and now its one of the first things i do too any car 10 plus years old, do it... it will help ur car start better, it brightened up all my interior and exterior lights, made the windows go up and down.

All thanks to kevins wonderful how to, follow it to the letter, and by the way. home depot sells 4 guage copper wire with good sheilding on it for alot less then 2.50 a foot and works great for me, although it only comes in black, use colored tape near the ends and it will keep u inline if ur going that extra step for the negitive
good luck.

darksider

i was talkin about the thread in the 2nd gen archive. thanks

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

I can tell already that you have not even looked at the writeup I have directed you to, or you would not be asking the questions you are asking. Please do so now, it will answer your questions. I don't mind helping people, but it bothers the hell out of me when they do not listen to what I say, and keep asking the same questions. This seems to be what is happening here.




The thicker stranded wire (such as what you use in your house to carry ac voltage) does not carry DC voltage as well as the thinner, fine braided wire commonly used for stereo cable. This is why they use that high grade cable for high power needs. It will work, but if I'm going to the trouble, I think I can go get the right stuff for the job at hand.

NZConvertible

Ground wires don't "charge". This is my point, ground wires don't do anything special. They are simply part of the electrical circuit, no more or less important than any other part of the circuit. Extra ground wires will only cause a major improvement if there was a major problem to start with.

Good quality multi-strand wire is all you need. Anything bigger than 8GA is pointless overkill. I wouldn't waste your money on stuff from a stereo shop either, as it's the same stuff you can buy from good electronics shops, just with a much bigger mark-up...

Ottoman

kevin,
just wanna clear something up
in ur write up for the FC:

top of the block being? where the ecu ground comin outta the harness is? or any of the bolt holes under the UIM?

and 2nd, U stack 3 grounding terminals on top of each other through that one bolt.. one to the battery, and the other 2 go from the back to their various distinations, correct?

is it important for the 3 of them to be stacked? so that they ground to the back to the battery through the longest cable?

i'm doin the grounding to my 88 TII.. needs it badly.. but the only wires i could find locally in 4GA was 25mm heavy duty stuff... with 10 thick wires rather then many thin ones..
and my crimp ends are thick and heavy duty as well... i dunno if i'll be able to stack all three under one bolt on the block

RETed

They are full of ****.
That's what good marketing will do for you...
"You can sell a fridge to an eskimo..."

BTW, welding supply shops can sell you very thick "welding" cable for cheap.
I can get like 2AWG stuff for like $1 / foot.
You don't get the pretty colorful insulation, but this stuff is good grade copper and very fine-stranded.


-Ted

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Right; that's an important ground point, that harness clip, and so we hit that with one of the wires.

Right...no use in having each wire come right off the battery, when you have a ready made branch point right there already which saves the wires from being so long.

Yes, because if the first wire carries perfect ground from the battery itself, then it acts as a ground as well, and all the other wires can touch off of it instead of the battery. You could also "daisy chain" wires one after another in sequence, but that would tend to get a bit messier, I would think, plus if you fail to get one connection clean and tight along the way, then the rest fail too.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Ground wires are half of the voltage equation, with positive charge wires being the other half. This is why I make ground AND charge wires when I rewire a car; groundwire kits only address half the problem. A bad ground can cause lack of voltage or proper operation just as much as a bad charge wire connection at an alternator or such. They are both equally important.

IS there an echo in here?

Whizbang

my battery is the passenger side storage bin the and ground is connected to my chassis directly underneath the car is a bolt hole that was in the suspension. so how would i pull off this "connect to the bat. deal"? cant i still just ground to the chassis?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Kevin, I just read through your grounding instructions. Good write up, but I noticed three things:

1. No mention of dielectric grease
2. I would never recommend that anyone use a vice to secure crimp on connectors. True, you do solder them (however in the write up it is unclear as to whether correct soldering technique is to be used, or the solder was just "dripped" over the connection). A cheap crimping tool is better then nothing, and worlds better then a vice.
3. The bolt on battery terminals are for temporary use only. True, everyone seems to use them permanently and it does work. But a grounding how-to should mention that only battery lugs that are cast directly onto the cables should be used in a permanent installation.

I'm fairly **** about electrical issues...

kontakt

So you're saying that either we should buy pre-made wiring, or make a mold and cast connectors onto the end of wires? It may be improper, but I believe crimped soldered connectors are adequate.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

The battery connectors shown in the write up are not soldered, only crimped.

You can get a reasonably reliable connection if you use those terminals with the gauge of cables they are designed for, and plenty of dielectric grease is applied to the wire and crimp area of the connector. But because they are lead connectors, contacting a copper wire, and are in an environment with battery acid, they will always eventually corrode.

Premade replacement battery cables with factory installed lugs are available at most auto parts stores. The lugs are actually cast directly onto the cable, and the entry point is sealed to help prevent corrosion. They are always the best bet when replacements are necessary.

If you want to get crazy, most battery stores (NOT auto parts stores) can custom cast you new cables and lugs, or point you to someone who can. However this is rarely necessary due to the variety of stock replacements carried.

Regardless of what method you choose, dielectric grease is very, very necessary. It should be applied to EVERY electrical connection made. Weather tight connectors should get a thin layer. "Quick connect" (spade, bullet, etc.) connectors should be totally filled/covered, and battery terminals should be should be totally slathered. This right here will eliminate most "weird" intermittant electrical faults in the engine bay.

NZConvertible

I don't see anything in your how-to about a high-current circuit breaker in the wire from the battery to the alternator, or at least making completely sure this wire is very well protected against rubbing and chafing due to engine movement. I don't think this is a very safe mod the way it's written, and you should be telling people about the risks. Just constructive critisism, nothing else.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

...nor is there such a setup in the stock system, or any stock system for that matter. Fuse or breaker between battery and starter? nada. battery to fusebox? nada.

Next?

NZConvertible

The stock wire between the battery and alternator runs though the MAIN fuse (80A on S4, 100A on S5). AFAIK most car charging systems are arranged similarly.

http://photobucket.com/albums/a47/S5...ent=Manual.jpg

Correct, but the cable is also very well protected, which I suggested as an alternative to a fuse. It's also only used for a very short duration, compared to the constant flow from the alternator.

You must mean the interior fuse box, since a fuse between the battery and the engine bay fuse box would be retarded. The interior fuse box is fed from the BTN and MAIN fuses in the the engine bay fuse box.

I just think that you should at least mention the risk of a short circuit in your how-to. Running a cable through the engine bay that is carrying very high current and is both physically and electrically unprotected is dangerous.

I actually did this myself, but removed it because I wasn't 100% happy running without a fuse. The 8GA cable had thick outer insulation, plus I enclosed it in split plastic conduit (like the stock looms) that was then wrapped in insulation tape. It was securely zip-tied so that it could not rub against anything, and had enough slack to allow for engine movement.

Cosmo_TT

iTrader: (11)

i have an article from a magazine that did a test with five different brands of grounding kits on three different cars and hyperground was one that they tested now every kit increased horsepower some were as little as less than 1hp and a couple of them gave 3-5hp gain but the hyperground kit gave 6.5-8.5hp increase on all three cars so that kit did something right
i say for a few dollars more than it would cost to make one you know its a good kit and save the hassle shopping and making one so IMO its worth it

Ottoman

i remember that article...

it was in turbo magazine..

the results deffinately made me raise an eyebrow

RETed

Anyone got a copy handy?
I find it very hard to believe...
No wonder all the eBay scammers keep posting this **** for sale...


-Ted

Ottoman

i'll try to dig up the article for ya TED... if the magazine hasn't disintigrated yet


basically dyno the car stock.. then put on the wires and dyno again... and show results....

i'll go home tonight.. i can take pics with digicam but don't have a flatbed scanner