StevenRyan

Hello, this is my first post at this forum...

My name is Steve Ryan and I'm a big time car enthusiast.

I've been wanting to create a dedicated autocross/track car for quite some time now, but being a poor college student hasn't helped this goal materialize at the desired rate. Grass Roots Motorsports has made this goal more... er... fiscally viable!

The 2003...4...5 (ect.) challenge is a unique competition in which entrants are given a maximum budget of 200(x... whatever the current year is) to build a track car with which they will use to compete against other nuts at 3 different levels of competition.

Points are awarded for 1/4 mile time, autocross performance, and "concourse points." Obviously, concourse points in this crowd is a bit of a misnomer, as the majority of the cars apear to be rattlecanned or still retain their brilliant shade of rust red.

After considering a few cars, the idea of a 2nd generation RX7 jumped into my head.

The RX7 has always appealed to me, as it is light, high-revving, albeit without much torque, perfectly balanced, and looks the ****.

I've read somewhere that the rotary is a fairly straightforward motor to rebuild, and its compactness and easy of maintnence will make it very favorable as a project car.

My question is, how realistic is it that I can find a non-op or flood recovery 2nd gen RX7 for under a grand? Please note, anything you sell off the car can be used to lower your budget. For instance, if I took out all non-driver seats and interior furnishings and managed to net 400 dollars from that from eBay, I could deduct 400 dollars from the initial purchase of the car.

Also, I've heard that the non-turbo rotary is a pretty reliable unit, except that it burns through oil pretty quickly. My cous who works at Sears Point swares by the rotary, which they use in their formula racers.

Any commentary on this subject would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

Steve

Simplecat

I've been thinking about that too. However, I think I would get a first gen cause its waaaayyy lighter. Actually. personally, I'd get one of those in really fucked up condition, and then buy an old carb'd 350 with a strong auto. You could get that at a you-pick parts yard for like 250 bucks. Buy a basic 350 swap kit from www.grannyspeedshop.com (I think thats the address). You could rebuild a 350 with some rings, bearing, and a couple tubes of RVT. Get a shift kit, an edelbrock cam, mani, carb combo, and a nitrous spray plate. Get some used headers, and straight pipe exhaust put on there. I bet what I've listed would cost maybe $1500, and a third of that would be just the nitrous. you could get most of the parts (except for the rebuild parts) used and cut cost even further. There's lots of ways you could use the rest of that money to make it handle alot better, like doubleing up the swaybars, japanese drifter style. That would cost you what, 30 bucks? make your own strut tower braces. I'm gonna try and enter this thing in the future some time, but I'm on the wrong continent right now, so not this year. Or the next really.

GREG

Simplecat

Oops, I mentioned a 350 swap....

*puts his flame suit on*

GREG

StevenRyan

Greg... my "team" (fun saying that.. HA!) considered a small block swap...

We figured that would be a can of worms that we really didn't want to open at this time... but we will still deffinetely consider it!

But a manual is going to be a mandatory part of the equation. I hate autos with a passion that is... well, passionate.

Steve

Snrub

iTrader: (1)

I don't get GRM (although I'm thinking I should), but I don't understand how a TII has not won this challange. What car has similar performance for the money?

The rotary is SUPPOSE to burn oil. That's part of its lubrication process.

Yes you can buy a non-op FC for <$1k. For your purposes you should be able to get a running n/a or TII for <$2k. The power band of a rotary is wide and the TII is not exactly torqueless.

What are the other cars that you are considering?

Rx-7Addict

iTrader: (2)

the RX-7 would be a great choice for this event

I would try to find a turbo II for under $2000, but good luck with that. Otherwise an NA 2nd gen would prob. be your best choice followed by a GSL-SE 1st gen then a 12a 1st gen

StevenRyan

Thanks for the encouraging words, all of you... I'm very impressed that all the posts I've gotten have been really mature and thought out. Good forum you've got here!

Other cars that we've considered have been the AE86 (Trueno, baby!), 240z with some sort of monster motor, a car closer to home (the other dude going into this is a bimmer guy too) a 325i gutted to oblivion, and everything in between. Today I even saw a Monte Carlo SS (when it was still RWD, rest in peace) and went.. "hmmm....."

I'm really leaning towards the RX7 though... it would be a great car to take a step further after the comp and make into a real live race car! We have thunderhill and Sears Point just a hop and a kip away, and Leguna Seca is within range too. Fun Fun.

Steve

einhander

Well, I'm the other half of this "team" for the moment. Steve and I thought the FC (Lord I hope I got that right) would be a great platform to get out feet wet in the arena of motorsport. We're pretty decent with the wrenches and Steve is a pretty good auto-xer. Can someone give some insight as to what it would take to make one of these cars competitive in this contest? Since the second gen car is a high revving low torque creature we'll be playing to its strengths- handling. What are some things to look for when we're looking for a car? Are there any cheap and easy ways to gain a couple horsepower?

Anymore information you guys could provide would be awesome.

Cheers.

mightymouse0x

depending what model and series your gettin of the FC there are dfferent options, a GTUs and TII are goin to have the best handing. look for ones tha have hard top obviously. deffinitely drop the cats, they take up good hp. get a good spark. there is also a throttle body mod, which is easy free HP, not much but it helps. do a search on it on the forums.

StevenRyan

I've heard from a guy who races a 2nd gen RX7 in solo II that rotarys are backwards... where in a conventional piston engine you get more gains from dealing with the intake side of things, the main gains on a rotary deal with the exhaust. Pretty trick stuff...

Are rebuilds pretty straightforward on the 2nd gen and can parts be had cheapish? Remember, I'm coming from a bimmer, and our goddammed parts are at least 3-4x more expensive then the honda/domestic crowds stuff. Bah.

Steve

V8kilr

I dont understand why people wouldnt just have the seller of the vehicle you intend to buy put down $50 or something like that.

I guess what i am trying to say is how can you keep an event like that honest and regulated?

Since I make custom parts could I sell them to myself for $1 ?

FC3Slider

steve, i have a non-somg legal 86 fc n/a that i will sell for 750. e-mail me if interested. if i am posting for no reason ignore me

fc3s_redsuns@yahoo.com

13bpower

The N/A FC would be a great choice. Get a 86-88 5-speed with a LSD. Finding one for 500-1000 needing a new engine would not be hard. Remove all emissions, Headers to catback, intake, Weight reduction, Port the engine (many differnt options here) and you will have a under 2000lb car with 200-300 hp (depending on type of port) with perfect balance and a high revving engine that will last 5 times longer than a piston engine in the same situation.

Stay away from the 89-91's because of the added wight and the pesky electoric "this and that's" that were added.

After gutting the car you could sell alot of the parts on this forum.

StevenRyan

V8kilr, this happens. Some guy was going to bring a... what car was it... hmm.... I forget, but it blew up during testing. His friend felt sorry for him and let him use his cadi sedan (old, 80's style). He essentially finished dead last, but he paid 0 dollars for the whole thing.

Other people have bought their cars for 50 dollars because they were abandoned POS's, others sometimes find themselves MAKING money on the transaction after they've sold off a lot of parts.

This is still in the pondering stage, but that's pretty much what we'll be looking for it looks like. These cars resell so cheap, I'm absolutely loving this.

300hp!!?! Geeze... what kind of torque and when does the rotary put down at this point? I do realize that for a racing car a high-torque peak if very desirable to take advantage of geering. Thanks for all the help...

Steve

KiyoKix

I agree, the S4 (86-88) model FC would be the best bet due to the lighter weight and better handling (you can get a GXL like me and it will come with everything the TII has except for the turbo and tranny...but you get limited slip, bigger brakes, hard suspension, etc.). The S5 (89-91) had more power (160bhp vs. 146bhp and 140lb ft vs. 138lb ft), but the power was offset by the weight that they added (plus the 2lb ft of tq come in later at 3800 vs. 3500...not a big difference, but still ). Either way good luck on whatever you're doing. Btw...parts aren't really cheap for RX-7s either, but search and you can get some really good deals.

StevenRyan

So peak torque still comes below 4000revs? That's pretty impressive... my engine makes peak torque around 4k, and it'll make it even higher once I put the M3 cams that I've been procrastinating on installing in.

A few more questions, are the 86's carbeurated or fuel injected, and how difficult/expensive is it to replace a worn rotor seal?

Thanks,
Steve

Rx-7Addict

iTrader: (2)

All 2nd generation RX-7s (86-91) are fuel injected. A worn rotor seal requires a complete rebuild of the motor, so at the very least youre looking at $500 to be able to put it back together (new seals)

Good luck

RarestRX

Yo,


Steven, do a search under the user name "Silkworm." He races an ITS RX-7, he is very cool and has a good site on his buildup.

And he makes good videos!

Kevin
1989 GTUs "I could take him..."

Capn' Wankel

There is a member by the name of Kevin that races his GTUs at Sears point all the time...I am sure that he will eventually respond to this thread and you could hook up with him on this deal that you have goin.

On the topic of rotory power though...it is really easy to make power for those that are mechanically inclined do-it-yourselfers. The lighter series 4 (86-88) RX7s can get down to about 2000-2100 lbs with serious weight reduction and make 146 hp stock. With header, intake, and straight through exhaust you will be looking at 180-190 hp on stock porting. Then you can either get it streetported to make an additional 30-40 hp. OR you can bridgeport one to make 55-65 more. OR you can peripheral port one and make around 300 hp total. (disclaimer: all stated hp rated at the flywheel)

Porting templates can be bought from various shops around the country and then your only cost will be drill bits and a rebuild kit with new seals to put your engine back together. Porting is a WONDERFUL way to gain a lot of horsepower. (disclaimer: fuel delivery will have to be taken in to consideration)

Rotory's take very well to mods that allow it to breath freely. Gearing will make a huge difference to the driveability as well and it is recommended that you swap out the 4.11 rear gearing to a 4.3-4.44-or even a 4.88 rear end.

-Lee

PS- I and everyone on this board could talk your ears off all day long about the rx7 and different ideas. Use the search function at the top of the page and you will find just about anything you could ever want to know about the rotory engine/cars. Otherwise I would tell you to post in your regional forum on the board and meet up with some rotorites in person.

PSS- Once you go rotory YOU WON'T GO BACK! RX7club KNOWS ABOUT YOU!

EDIT:Kevin already posted above me while I was writing this post lol. So predictable!

StevenRyan

Excelent! Oh, by the way... I'm 6'3", a real land monster... will I fit in this car?

I'm getting very stoked about this project... I just gotta make sure Jessica (my E36) knows I still love her through all this...

Steve

KiyoKix

I think you'll fit (maybe a bit tight but you'll fit), I believe there are other members here of the same height. There was a post a long while back (search) about how you fit in your FC...my mixed *** does just peachy since I'm only 5' 7" and weigh 155 .

Rx-7Addict

iTrader: (2)

My friend has a 2nd gen w/ a sunroof and hes 6'5"-6'6" and he has no problems. He looks pretty big in it, but he claims he fits fine

RacerJason

iTrader: (5)

An RX7 has won the GRM buildup in the past, at least once.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Personally, I think a 1st gen is a better choice. Cheaper, and faster with equivelant mods (alot lighter).

Icemark

For the most head room then look for a 86-87 Sport or 88 GTU or 89-90 GTUs (note the small "s") all without a sunroof.

I am 6'2" and found with a helmet on, there was not enough headroom with a sunroof for a proper race seating angle. The GXL, Luxury, and Turbo models all will have a sunroof and you will loose about 3/4 of an inch with it.

Those the Sport, 88 GTU, and GTUs will also have the desirable 5 lug, 4 piston front brakes and vented rear brakes as well as the heavy duty suspension. The 88 GTU and 89-90 GTUs will also come standard with a LSD. They will be missing all the extra heavy stuff like power windows (12 lbs right there), tilt steering wheels (another 15 lbs) and other fancy stuff that you won't need for racing.

Also something else to think about, in Car and Driver testing the Sport was only a .5 seconds slower than the Turbo of the same vintage in the 0-60. So when racing; there is very little advantage to using the Turbo car unless you will be seriously modifing the car for goobs and goobs of HP.