PANAM88

i did an s5engine swap into an 88 rx7. the 88 was my son's car to which he blew the engine and tranny. i had an extra engine for my 90 rx7 so i used that. i found a post where the engine can be swapped the change of the front housing and all the sensors. (rotaryresurrection)

i have spark. i took out the injectors and tried to perform the fuel flow test as described in the fsm. i had fuel pressure but no flow.
i ran power to the injectors from the battery they opened (all 4 worked).when i put gas through the primary injector openings the car started until it burned off the fuel i put in.
i have a new battery and battery charger w/engine crank option. power to the spark is not in question.
i swapped the ecu (326) which worked before,for another ecu326 which is working. swapped air flow meter. confirmed the position of the CAS with the yellow mark on the engine pulling.
i also grounded the pins at the ecu to see if that would help as wayne88 sugested to someone else. no luck
i am unable to flood the engine
what else can i do?

thanks
al

YearsOfDecay

What injectors did you use????? If the car had high impedance injectors in it.. you can't switch in the low Impedance from the 90...

And this is going to sound REALLY dumb... but did you check the EGI fuse over by the drivers shock tower??? If thats blown, engine will crank, but the injectors will not fire..

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

he's got more replies on the first thread, this is a dupe.

PANAM88

everything is from the 88 car the only thing that is different is the engine block]
i did the swap that roatryresurrection outlined on his website s5 engine to an s4 car.( low imp injectors with matching hareness)

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Measure for 12V at the injectors while cranking. Each injector should have one lead that reads 12V with the ignition on.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Have you checked the ENGINE 15A fuse inside the car? the 30 and 40A EGI fuses outside? Does your tach needle bounce while cranking?

PANAM88

yes the 15a ,30a and 40a were not blown but swapped them out with known good ones and
this afternoon with the original hareness and ecu at pin3f=.22vdc, 3e=.714vdc, 3c=.271vdc 3h=10.23vdc. checked all grounds found pin 3a loose. inspected the other grounds on the engine.
since the uim was off i swapped the engine hareness for a known good hareness.power readings after the swap 3h=10.8vdc, 3c=.3 vdc, 3e=.78vdc, 3f=.19vdc . then swapped ecu with a known good ecu reading were the same. then swapped mian engine relay no help.
ran power directly to the injectors and engine tried to turn over. swapped cas and performed the resistance check per the fsm all three tested the same. swapped out plugs with new plugs. the battery is 2days old and i have a battery charger with engine crank option so lack of power or spark is not in question. fuel is flowing thru the system and out the other end. the engine is starving for fuel. what i need to know is where do the injectors get their signal in shoot. am i missing a relay or something.
thanks '
al

PANAM88

sorry forgot mention , yes the needle does bounce when cranking also the car is an automatic.
thanks
al

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Alright, time for step 2. Forgive me if some of this has been covered already, I didnt take time to read everything above.

Remove your UIM. Unbolt the lower fuel rail with injectors still inserted, and wires plugged into them as usual. Use wire or tape to hold the injectors firmly into the rails. Hold them back or put a pan under them. Using a spare CAS plugged into the harness (instead of the one in the engine), turn the key on and spin the CAS gear, to make the ecu think the car is cranking. See if anything comes out of the injectors. IF you can't do the cas trick, have an assistant crank for you. IF not, then probe each injector plug for 12vdc+ on one pin. This should be supplied constantly when the key is on. The ecu completes the circuit to each injector with a ground trigger based upon CAS input. SO then you have a power supply issue or you have a dead ecu, simple as that.

PANAM88

here are the voltages one one injector is getting power at pin 3h.
i have just changed out the whole hareness. i will do the test today and get to you on the results this tonight.
thanks
al

HAILERS

No voltage at 3c, 3e, 3f, 3h EQUALS no pulsing injectors until you find out why three out of four injectors are not getting 12v. See your other post.

PANAM88

ok here is what i have so far. took the UIM off again to do the test rotaryressurection said to do also took the afm off and cleaned the soleniod resistor now the injectors are spraying.
now for the tech end.
now i have power at pins 3e, 3f, 3h and power at the ground pins 3g,3a,2c

now at pin 3c ( rear primary injector)i have .11vdc
and at ground pin 2r i have 3.48 vdc
physical findings and obsversations
i am flooding the engine all plugs are getting wet some more than others.
fuel is coming out of the tail pipe.
flooding procedures were done minus the atf ( which i believe doesnt work)
engine is trying to turn over but not making it.

i am open to sugesstions i am done for today due to the stress i will continue tomorrow(monday) i could use some ideas
thanks
al

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

IF you have fuel spray from both primary injectors (the ones you just tested) then they are both working properly, and your voltage readings are off in some way. The secondaries may have voltage but will not have ground, they do not get triggered until the engine is under load.

To unflood the engine, you MUST use atf. Don't second guess the procedure, it's worked for thousands of cars for years now. IF you're for some reason paranoid about the use of atf, then use a light motor oil instead. You need to use a thick substance that will get in the engine and distribute itself and wash away all the excess gas and restore compression momentarily to start the car.

IF your plugs are very wet and have been for a while, it might be necessary to change them, plugs foul easily on these cars.

PANAM88

its not that i am paranoid about atf i just have never had to do this. but if you think this will work i will give it a shot.
my next question is this why am i not getting 12v at pin 3c (when i get voltage at all 4 injectors? also pin 2r(ground ) is showing a voltage of 3.48vdc .
what do you think?might this be normal?
thanks
al

HAILERS

Three out of four ain't bad ....but not good enough. 3C is the rear primary so I don't comprehend why it is firing/spurting/flowing/whatever.

Here's the deal. When checking the grounds, make sure the key is to OFF. Never check grounds with power on. Not accurate. You'll pickup stray voltage/stray things. Just put the meter on ohms and take a reading if looking for grounds. Try once more with the grounds.

As for the injector pins at 3C, 3E, 3F, 3H, make sure the key is to ON and your reading vdc. You can leave the plug attached to the ECU if you want and just back probe the connector. You should read battery voltage on each pin. If one does not read battery voltage, you need to find out where b/t the ECU pin and the solenoid resistor the wire is open or shorted to ground.

By the way, if 3C really isn't getting battery voltage.....that engine ain't a gonna start.........3C being a primary injector and all. Gotta fix that or find out if you made an error reading it earlier.

Frankly speaking I use starter fluid. Just a spray of about a second in the air filter and then get in the car and try to start it. Usually works. Problem is, the timing has to be pretty much spot on and both primary injectors have to be functional for the engine to stay running. Never spray starter fluid constantly to keep the engine running though.

Somewhere in the last two or so days someone posted a picture of the cas with its top off. It showed where the rotating parts SHOULD be in relationship to the two stationary pickups when the pulley is aligned with the fixed pointer. If I find it I'll post it later.

Attached is a pic of the ECU plugs. Looking at the end where the wires enter the plug. It's a turbo plug but non turbo is very similar.

HAILERS

If the black top is off your cas and your pulley marks are aligned with the fixed pointer......then it should be looking like the jpg I attached here. The cas in the jpg is on top of a scanner but the pointers/teeth are aligned with the fixed, black, pickups. Yours should look like the jpg.

Your biggest problem seems to be 3C though. I'd fix that first so you don't waste time and effort.

Here: http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/showth...threadid=29846

PANAM88

hey hailers
i am getting voltage at all the injectors (right at the connector).
but there is that pin 3c problem.
i will try in the morning.
if you get any ideas let me know
thanks
al

PANAM88

hey rotaryresurrection hows it going ?
i tried to turn the engine over without the atf everything was dry i had new plugs and wires. i confirmed spark and compression by listening and feeling the burst of air out of the leading plug hole.put it all together and had no luck. took the plugs out again cleaned them and began with the atf, for the 1st time the engine turn over ofcourse there was the cloud of smoke.after the worst of it had past the car would not let me go below 2500 to 3000( inthat range) rpm. finally it shut off on its own. i took the plugs out and cleaned them again and it turned over then shutoff. cleaned plugs and deciced to check tha i was getting fuel to the engine by leaving the plugs out and watching the fuel push out, here is what i noticed.
i no longer had compression noise from the rear rotor. i thought maybe the atf might be holding back a seal or something.
is this normal or did i just lose the rear rotor.
please get back to me
thanks
al

PANAM88

bump

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

If you run a compression check and get bad results, then there isnt much to do. I mean, there isn't any real faking a compression check, I mean either it is right or it isnt, especially with atf in the engine. atf actually raises compression 30-40psi, which is why it starts flooded and low compression motors so well.

I can assure you atf had nothing to do with breaking any seals.

PANAM88

i did not mean that atf broke my seals. what i was asking was, could the atf hold down the apex seal or do something that my simulate a blown engine?

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

No. Atf ADDS compression (if there is no seal damage, that is) not reduce it.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

ATF will only really raise the compression, i haven't ever seen it or engine oil cause something to stick and lower compression. if your guage is sensitive somehow to oil or atf getting into it then it could be possible but i have never seen a compression guage somehow foul out and cause an inaccurate reading aside from carbon in the schrader valve but you shouldn't be using a schrader in it anyhow.

i was sure i had a fuel problem as well but it wound up being low compression and coolant getting into the combustion chamber, you could try doing a pressure check on the cooling system to be sure it doesn't have any leaks but aside from that i would be sure you have compression then lastly an accurate spark and no intake or exhaust restrictions, those are the basic principles that should allow it to run.