rxspeed87

well I know there is a little rail that goes the whole lenght of the car well two of them really

but those also seem to be on mustang/f-bods
but both still benefit from the connectors none the less

but still need to look under the car since I haven't done that in a while


main reason I don't want to go with the foam is lots of weight and unsure how much stiffness I woudlget plus I don't know how easy it woudl be to just undo

scathcart

The subframe on mustangs is split in the middle. The subframe connectors connect the rear to the front and "eliminate" this gap.

Lots of weight? This stuff is as light as styroform! I added MAYBE 5 lbs to the car. Also, don't discount this stuff due to its lightweight, it increases chassis stiffness far more than 140 lbs of roll cage does.

Of course, bolting on STEEL is the greatest way to reduce weight. Afterall, steel is one of the lightest materials to work with....

rxspeed87

god I love how ppl in there kind form of helping only go for insulting sarcastic comments
this place just seems to be getting worse and worse
but what can I say I need the help but think the real forum might be place to go


someone here said abot 100lbs of added weight so... that to me seems like a decent amount of weight and I know for sure two bars wouldn't weigh 50 a piece so that is what I took into account. I have no first hand with this stuff so I wouldn't know. but since you either did not see where I was trying to get the information from or just didn't want to so you could make you little comments you wouldn't understand

also I would like to have something that can be removed. how would I remove something like this?
but think you missed that part or just chose not to being you could find some sly way to crack a comment against someone else



EDIT: ok so I'm in a really bad mood today and too lazy to go retype

scathcart

Well, I am sorry if you lack common sense. If you read the DIRECT PRODUCT INFORMATION from the adviertisers website instead of relying on incorrect product regurgiatation, you could figure out the exact weight amount yourself.
The site lists that they used 5 kits on a 300ZX. Thats a decent average, most RX-7's take 4.

Each kit has .88 lbs of each material, so 10x.088= 8.8 lbs, maximum.
The law of conservation of mass states that the reactants must equal the products, so unless you see foam being able to pull 91.2 lbs of gases out of the atmosphere during curing, then the MAXIMUM you will gain in weight is under 10 lbs. If you're concerned about such a weight difference, go on a diet.

Another clue for you: anything that can be unbolted isn't all the rigid. Take a look at the designs of your beloved f-body subframe connectors. All of the evaluations for them say they don't do jack when bolted on, you need to weld them. Hard to remove welded items...
Lastly, if you were concerned about ability to remove, why would you even ask about seam welding? As the name implies, welding is involved, and as we all know, not exactly an easy step to reverse.

Admit it: you got called on making some stupid remark, and got mad that somebody pointed it out. Suck it up. Really, the best way to avoid making yourself appear nescient and subject to these kinds of remarks is to do some research. There are plenty of websites out there with professional information, and LOADS of books for under $15 on the subject. Instead, you choose to rely on the opinion of other amateurs who constantly feed misinformation. Relying on the opinions of the uneducated leaves you open to harsh criticism.

F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

Scathcart... back on topic here, How did you apply this? Did you just apply it to the door sills? I've got some cans of this stuff on order (as well as the quiet seal paint on stuff) I was going to fill all the empty areas, INCLUDING the rear spare tire area and area behind the gas door and rear struts (Leaving room to work on the inside of the gas door) I'm hoping to eliminate some exhaust noise with this as well as stiffen the frame. Details or even pictures of how you did it would be awesome!

-Mike

honegod

thing to keep in mind is that the foam works by supporting the skin of rigid material.

if there is no skin present for the foam to support you only get the stiffness of the foam, not much.

so foaming an open area is fairly futile.

on the other hand, fiberglass over foam is seriously stout, so if you foamed an open area and then applied glass to seal it, if you get a good bond to the existing metal you can get some great LIGHTWEIGHT frame reinforcement.

scathcart

The main places is under the plastic kick panels of the car, the door sills. You just enlarge the holes under there slightly, and dump in the mixed material. Make SURE your tires are all touching the ground and the car is flat.

F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

The ITW Foam Seal is a spray application. Sorta like "Great stuff". So that should make it a little easier.

OC_

I would have to see proof of this, where did you get your source? And since you can triangulate at roll cage, and not foam, I would think not.

rxspeed87

no I'm not upset by making some stupid remark as you said

what is making me a little unhappy is your attitude.

look at this post itself you go about so high and mighty and in trying to make others look like they are stupid

easy comment would have been it only adds this much weight

not your an idiot lacking common sense

that is part of the reason I left this place for a while
too many stuck up ****** trying to put ppl down for a simple question rather then help out

yes the information was presented and I admit I glanced at it but didn't read the details being I was more or less trying to do something else at the time. so I admit my fault for taking someone elses answer.
but that does not need to bring about insults from you

now if that makes you feel special inside then so be it your life is grand being that you can put someone down



as far as seam welding I'm not to worried about that and never did I say I would do it so why is it you are trying to use that against me


second bolt in SFC do make a difference and though they might not help out as much as welded in units the difference is still there. as far as weld in units those I know of someone who would be able to easily remove so again to me that wasn't a perm install


but please lay off the insults I didn't come here for that but rather for help.

rxspeed87

as far as the motor goes isn't there a way to brace it with use of a strut tower brace?


I think have seen one before but not sure of how the unit was installed


are there any parts of the suspension itself that could use some stiffening?

scathcart

Personal experience.

chris-reedtn

My chassis stiffining mods include a full chasis seam (spot) welds, cage, Strut tower brases, foam, mazda speed front underbrace, and thats about it.

-Chris

BlackRx7

This thread kicks *** should be considered to be put in the archives....

I'm gonna buy me some of that foam, I have no carpet and sound deadening is removed.

aside from all this bickering at the end

sub9lulu

iTrader: (7)

archive this

honegod

triangulation is only ONE way to get stiffness, box construction works great, and a foam filled box CAN support triangulated subframes.

Icemark

Not even one person has voted a single star that this is a great thread.

If it is really an archive worth thread, then people should rate on it with 5 stars.

Ni5mo180SX

I dont know if its archivable material. Lots of opinions being thrown around as fact.

j200pruf

iTrader: (4)

Would there be any benifits to filling the spot right in front of the bins (hollow spot in the frame right infront of the dishes for the bins. And what about filling a roll cage with foam?

rxspeed87

well just want to say thanx guys
my first 5 star post that ppl want in the archives

icemark all I ask is if you are going to put it there mind letting it kick around a little longer see what other ideas ppl can add to this?


as far as the suspension goes itself
what are the weak points that are prone to flexing?

I know there are strut tower braces for the top rear/front
but are there any ties for the lower part of the suspension?

just curious heard something about the FD havinga torque arm (don't know for sure)
what exactly does it do and would there be any gains from on on a FC?

what places on the rx7 are prone to flex when under load?

does anyone have any pictures of a engine brace installed?

how much of a difference do poly bushings really make?

does a 3 point front brace really make much more difference then a 2 point?


reason I ask this is if some ppl have ideas I might try make a few parts for my car to stiffen things up and if all works well might be able to make a few spares and sell them off.

about to go for the rear strut bar and see if I can fab something up there


any help guys would be welcome

RETed

Unless someone out there has an F1-type multi-axis "shaker" table, it's hard to quantify any changes to chassis stiffness.  Anyone got solid lbs-in deflection numbers?  Yeah, I didn't think so.

Bottom line, a PROPERLY built and installed cage that "triangulates" all four shock towers should provide the best stiffness increase from the stock chassis.


-Ted

rxspeed87

lol wish I could go that route but no cage for me

any other ideas though even though we can't get solid proof of how much of a diff it is going to make ?

EProdRx7

The froam idea is an old one and a good one. Frankly if Maranello though it was a good idea it's a good enough idea for me! My question is does the foam break down after some amount of time? I did a seat for a race car I worked on with two part foam and after two seasons of the driver bouncing around in it it was junk. My fear is that I will use this stuff and after racing the car the entire chassis will be a big maraca. I have also heard of an "epoxie micro baloon matrix" that dose the same thing, any info?

OC_

i know on tube chassis cars, you can test chassis stiffness by putting the car up on 3 jack stands, 2 under the rear corners and one in a front corner. Then you place a lever in the front of the chassis and stand one one end, with a lever big enough, you will get chassis flex. You measure the flex then do the same after a cage install to see the difference.

i will try to get a pic up later.

OC_

as for microballoons, we use that to fill gaps when making composites or filling in a seam. All the microballoons do is displace the resin. It makes the filling light weight and so you dont have to use so much resin, which can be expensive. epoxy alone is not very strong, and with balloons, its probably weeker. I would never use that for anything structural, its just a filler!