Infosponge

iTrader: (2)

I am in the process of making a fiberglass water to air intercooler as the title states. I do have some concerns about the fiberglass mating to the aluminum casting properly. I'm using the stock s4 intercooler in the stock location. I gust am working on the intercooler right now and will do the piping and other components later. Gust trying to get the intercooler waterjackit molded in and sealed correctly. I only have one side done at the moment. Pics will be uploaded later tonight if possible. questions comments welcome

Syncro

iTrader: (1)

Please don't get lazy, we want pictures!

anewconvert

iTrader: (1)

I would love to see the progress. If this doesnt work out having a shop weld tanks on to it isnt THAT expensive.


BC

pengarufoo

I could probably weld tanks on the IC for you if you want, just cost of materials, shipping, and some extra for the labor.

TIG

http://pengaru.com/~swivel/cars/rx-7/pics/01-22-2005/

Infosponge

iTrader: (2)

Thanks pegarufoo for the offer and you look like you have some skills there but i have a place that i work closely with at work that could do it for me, so if worst comes to worse i can have them do it. But i am trying to make it my self out of stuff that is readily available to me that i now how to use. And in the long run it might turn out better then making it out of aluminum. Pic are in the process of being posted.

ColumbusTurboTwo

iTrader: (7)

fiberglass might just be the worse idea ever for end tanks. Good luck though.

Infosponge

iTrader: (2)

Im not making endtanks im making a waterjackit out of fiberglass.

Infosponge

iTrader: (2)

here you go i still have to go and take pics of the fiberglass applyed. but for now:

rogrx7

iTrader: (11)

You might have been better off using aluminum sheets. If you don't protect and seal the fiberglass the water may damage it.


good luck

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

i woulda gotten this welded.

Infosponge

iTrader: (2)

in these pics you can see that the fiberglass mating and resin has been applied. the reason it is shiny is that it is in the process of drying.

The way i got the shape as seen in the first couple of pics is i used close hanger wire, bent it to the shape i wanted then stuck it into the little fines in the intercooler to hold in place this serves as my frame. i used fleece and covered it, using hot glue to hold the fleece secure till the fiberglass dried. i put down a coat to get the material wet so that the mat would have something to stick to. then i applied the mat in stripes that are manageable putting down resin on top. i used one layer of mat thinking that it wont need more because of the amount of pressure it will be holding.
I'm used to making speaker boxes with fiberglass. so one day i thought hey instead of using aluminum wy don't i use fiberglass to make a waterjackit because i wanted to make a water to air intercooler ever since i saw Brian at BDC make all that power out of the stock top-mount that was retrofitted to a WTA intercooler. so this is what i turned out with. tomorrow i will fill it up with water and see if i have any leaks to fix before i start on the other side.

Infosponge

iTrader: (2)

fiberglass is waterproof that is wy people use it on boats it is also extremly strong stuff.

Dom_C

I like the idea. I'm also in the process of making a water to air intercooler but am welding in alum instead. How to you plan on having the water travel through it? IE how are you oging to get an inlet/outlet sealed on there? Hmm I guess just more fiberglass work with some plastic bungs? Anywho interesting idea, i'm interested to see how this turns out as compared to a traditional style alum. water jakcet.

rogrx7

iTrader: (11)

Like wood?



Usually boats have 5+ coats of polyurethane or gel coat and sealer.. Your exposing this thing to heat and water and possibly pressure. Same for pools and water towers

People use it on boats, because its cheaper, lighter and easy to form.

I guess it depends how long you use it



http://www.boats.com/content/default...contentid=1899

Infosponge

iTrader: (2)

gust got home from work. i put the intercooler in the tub and it doesnt leak out of anywhere that i haven't meant for it to so it is time to start on the other side. dom c i am going to use plastic fittings that will be taped (if possible) into the fiberglass in spots that i will build up the material on specifically for the purpose of the fittings. i will have one on one side and another on the other. if i cant tap the fiberglass i will fiberglass them to the waterjacket creating a tight seal.

rogrx7 do you think that this blistering that is explained in the link you supplied could or would happen to this waterjacket i am forming. i am interested in the feed back from you or anybody might have on this subject.

rogrx7

iTrader: (11)

I don't know....

http://www.zahnisers.com/repair/blister/blister1.htm

http://www.osmosisinfo.com/preview.html

Link two says its the actual gelcoat chemicals that does the damages.

Infosponge

iTrader: (2)

dam i may have to ditch this project and go and have a aluminum waterjacket welded in place. if this bad news really relates to what i am trying to do.

hmmmm I'm wondering if i can add something to the water in the system that will halt the reaction that is occurring, any ideas?

RETed

This whole thread scares me...

Fiberglass is not necessarily "waterproof".
Once the water gets into the fiberglass strands, the whole thing is going to delam in a hurry.
I see it a lot in those cheapie fiberglass, corrugated roof panels...

One of the big problems with using it in the engine bay, which I don't think anyone mentioned, is vibration.
You're trying to adhere fiberglass (resin) to aluminum?
Good luck...
All that vibration is going to cause it to come apart, and cause the water / coolant to get into the fiberglass strands in a jiffy.
Sure, it'll be waterproof sitting in the tub, but give it a few months under more rigorous conditions, and you're staring at a disaster waiting to happen.

A2W intercoolers aren't welded (aluminum) for nothing...


-Ted

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Worse than vibration will be the expansion differential between the two materials.
A few heat/cooling cycles and I think they'll just pop apart.

Hope I'm wrong and it works for you though.

Infosponge

iTrader: (2)

thanks guys i'm going to back out of this thing and find another way to cool the intake charge in addition to the stock top mount. at lease if somebody else searches this they'll find that it fell through. sorry reted this was gust a big wast of space.

Dom_C

dude just make the water jacket out of alum. it will work great especially if you design it correctly with water coverage over all of the air pass's .. air to water is great stuff, just fiberglass doesn't mix well into the equation

boostin13b

I don't see fiberglass giving you the best heat transfer even if you do get it to hold up.

rogrx7

iTrader: (11)

Actually, the fiberglass would be better as far as heat transfer. The aluminum will probably retain the heat more than the fiberglass will. I think the idea is to use the water to absorb the heat ....pump it out...cool it and repeat.

Yankneck696

I see you junked the idea... Might be wise.

But, I'd like to debunk a few things:

Aluminum is one of the better heat transfer mediums before getting into exotics.

Fiberglass transfers very little heat.

I have built many fiberglass parts in a long career of boat building & used it very sucessfully in water borne exhausts without osmosis problems.

Fiberglass hollow tubing is availible for inlet/outlets.

If molding aluminum into fiberglass, I would have some form of vibration dampening built in to seperate the two.

Bulkhead fittings would work well to access the IC inlet outlet fittings.


Now, if I were going to do this with fiberglass ( or carbon fiber ) I would go the opposite route.........

I'd take a high flowing heater core ( new, not salvage ) & mount it in a carbon fiber housing, as it's stronger. I would run the water thru it & the air thru the housing.

I'd lay out the fiberglass/carbon fiber laminate on a sheet of "Pledged" glass & let cure. Then, I'd cut it up & build a 2 sided box to insert the heater core into with afore mentioned bulkhead fittings & vibration resistant mounting. Then, I'd use flanges with "nutserts" to mate the 2 halves of the housing together with a custom gasket that was siliconed on only one side. That way, you can seperate it for servicing.

Then, I'd use the AC to cool a resivoir of water & a throttle switch to turn off the compressor for full throttle.....

Compact & efficient.......

I have made heater/AC boxes this way for a chiller water borne system on a 60' boat. I installed zone valves & thermostats in each room with their own fans to heat & cool each to the desired temperatures.

Never had an osmosis problem. Such high hydraulic presssures are needed to perform osmosis that you would need around 350PSI to start the process. Remember, on a boat hull the osmosis is created from the full weight of the boat in the water, think about it.

Also, "Delamination" is usually due to bad quality control. Laying Gel Coat & allowing to cure too long without dewaxing & scuffing will lead to poor adhesion.


Good luck.......

Ed

rogrx7

iTrader: (11)

^^^^^

Very good information.



All the better reasons to have it since its going to be sitting right on top of a very hot block. However, it has to many cons


Never had an osmosis problem. Such high hydraulic presssures are needed to perform osmosis that you would need around 350PSI to start the process.


Osmosis will take place as long as there is a path way. They key is elimating all potential pathway. Pressure only speeds up the process. It doesn't change the size of the water molecule.

Don't get me wrong. It can be done, but at the price of experience, work, and time.