FD alternator installation. :)
10-07-03, 06:00 PM
#26
when we were at autozone I saw the 2 gauge wire and I bought it 
I don't think you can have enough wire for it 
I UNFORTUNATELY can't go out and work right now. It is pouring at the moment. But yes I still have that problem but the voltage drop has not happened much anymore unless it drops to like 500rpms in which case I think the voltange drop would be normal. I am going to check the cables to the MAIN fuse as soon as it is not WET outside. But I THINK it is just a loose wire. If I find nothing I will have it checked at autozone. If it is BAD I will let you know ASAP but I doubt it.
Thanks again Tony.
Santiago
I don't think you can have enough wire for it I UNFORTUNATELY can't go out and work right now. It is pouring at the moment. But yes I still have that problem but the voltage drop has not happened much anymore unless it drops to like 500rpms in which case I think the voltange drop would be normal. I am going to check the cables to the MAIN fuse as soon as it is not WET outside. But I THINK it is just a loose wire. If I find nothing I will have it checked at autozone. If it is BAD I will let you know ASAP but I doubt it. Thanks again Tony.
Santiago
10-07-03, 06:06 PM
#27
The rpm drop will definetly have a response to a belt driven Alternator. So If you are dropping this drastically In rpm's, you better believe It Skippy that It will effect the FD Alternators response. Thus the overall effect of your FC. Dropping down this low leaves me sceptical.
Check your car out man.
Dropping down this low leaves me sceptical.Check your car out man.
10-08-03, 09:11 AM
#29
Ok umm today all through the morning it was pumping out less than 14v. I was using the headlights and heater only. :-/
I got the voltage drop again but I got it at roughly 700rpms. If the car idles at 8-900rpms it will charge a bit better ~14v.
Once I check all the wires and if it persists I am taking it to autozone.
I got the voltage drop again but I got it at roughly 700rpms. If the car idles at 8-900rpms it will charge a bit better ~14v.
Once I check all the wires and if it persists I am taking it to autozone.
10-08-03, 09:56 AM
#30
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Originally posted by 1987RX7guy
Ok umm today all through the morning it was pumping out less than 14v. I was using the headlights and heater only. :-/
I got the voltage drop again but I got it at roughly 700rpms. If the car idles at 8-900rpms it will charge a bit better ~14v.
Ok umm today all through the morning it was pumping out less than 14v. I was using the headlights and heater only. :-/
I got the voltage drop again but I got it at roughly 700rpms. If the car idles at 8-900rpms it will charge a bit better ~14v.
Unless you overdrive the alternator by getting a smaller pulley, it won't ever sustain maximum output at idle. Even still, you can't have it overdriven too much or else it will grenade on you at high RPM.
It's very hard to make something that can produce output at low RPM, while making it handle high RPM without grenading. I'm not just talking about alternators, I'm talking about A/C units, Power steering, Water pump, etc.
And if your worried about voltage, think of all the times you were at ~12 with your old stock alternator with headlights, heater, and wipers going.
10-08-03, 08:18 PM
#31
Ok I checked all of the wires and added another wire just for fun. I re-tightened the battery terminals and the wires at the alt. Finally I made sure that the wires are PROPERLY done on the plug. They were. I still get the 11.9-12.4v upon start-up. My FC alt will do 13.5v at idle without reving or anything. 
I still have to rev up the car to get it to go up to 14.7v I already tested it with a DMM since I thought maybe the stock volts gauge was going bad or something.
Tommorow Autozone is getting an FD alt to test
If it is bad I am sending it off to Tony to see what he can do.
Santiago
I still have to rev up the car to get it to go up to 14.7v I already tested it with a DMM since I thought maybe the stock volts gauge was going bad or something.Tommorow Autozone is getting an FD alt to test
If it is bad I am sending it off to Tony to see what he can do.
Santiago
10-08-03, 08:58 PM
#32
This is because of a couple of things.
First, the pulley that came off the FD alternator was of a smaller diameter, so your voltage drop at idle is going to be more pronounced with the FD alt and an FC pulley.
Second, the FD alt doesnt have a feature (it was somewhere else in the FD) that isolates the battery and the alternator after shutdown. Therefore there will always be a slight drain on the battery. If you run an FD alternator, and you let your car sit for extended periods, its advisable to disconnect the battery.
Jarrett
First, the pulley that came off the FD alternator was of a smaller diameter, so your voltage drop at idle is going to be more pronounced with the FD alt and an FC pulley.
Second, the FD alt doesnt have a feature (it was somewhere else in the FD) that isolates the battery and the alternator after shutdown. Therefore there will always be a slight drain on the battery. If you run an FD alternator, and you let your car sit for extended periods, its advisable to disconnect the battery.
Jarrett
10-08-03, 09:05 PM
#33
yeah yeah but what about the damned voltage being at ~12v when I turn on the car UNTIL I rev it to 2k rpms? that is not a common thing as far as I know.
BTW I also checked the wires going to the main fuse and they were right on TIGHT as always.
BTW I also checked the wires going to the main fuse and they were right on TIGHT as always.
10-08-03, 09:30 PM
#36
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Did you not read my above post?!
That's what I told you happens! It happens to me!
Edit - You said rev to get above ~12? Are you reading the stock gauge? My stock gauge is reading 12, but at 700 RPM idle with the FD alt, I get 13.2 or 13.3. Throttle blip makes the stock gauge jump to 14, and the DMM reads 14+.
J-Rat, are you sure about that FD alternator being a constant drain? Is there some method of disabling it or something? I'd like to do so during my new ECU install..
That's what I told you happens! It happens to me!
Edit - You said rev to get above ~12? Are you reading the stock gauge? My stock gauge is reading 12, but at 700 RPM idle with the FD alt, I get 13.2 or 13.3. Throttle blip makes the stock gauge jump to 14, and the DMM reads 14+.
J-Rat, are you sure about that FD alternator being a constant drain? Is there some method of disabling it or something? I'd like to do so during my new ECU install..
Last edited by Black13B; 10-08-03 at 09:33 PM.
10-08-03, 09:37 PM
#37
Originally posted by Black13B
Did you not read my above post?!
That's what I told you happens! It happens to me!
Edit - You said rev to get above ~12? Are you reading the stock gauge? My stock gauge is reading 12, but at 700 RPM idle with the FD alt, I get 13.2 or 13.3. Throttle blip makes the stock gauge jump to 14, and the DMM reads 14+.
J-Rat, are you sure about that FD alternator being a constant drain? Is there some method of disabling it or something? I'd like to do so during my new ECU install..
Did you not read my above post?!
That's what I told you happens! It happens to me!
Edit - You said rev to get above ~12? Are you reading the stock gauge? My stock gauge is reading 12, but at 700 RPM idle with the FD alt, I get 13.2 or 13.3. Throttle blip makes the stock gauge jump to 14, and the DMM reads 14+.
J-Rat, are you sure about that FD alternator being a constant drain? Is there some method of disabling it or something? I'd like to do so during my new ECU install..
1) Go outside
2) open door to FC
3) Put the key in
4) Turn to on<< means turn on the car
5) look at volt gauge
6) see volt gauge is at 12V
7) Santiago= pissed off
8) remembers how FC alt charges to 13.5 at start up GOD ******* DAMNIT!!!
Santiago
Last edited by 1987RX7guy; 10-08-03 at 10:02 PM.
10-08-03, 09:55 PM
#39
Jarret that is MY POOINT it is NOT ******* charging untill I rev it to 2k rpms. Then it jumps up to 14.7 and stays there. and it does it every time. my FC alternator charges to 13.5v all the time. The FC alt doesn't need me to rev the engine at all since it charges to 13.5.
At idle the FD alt charges to 14.7 after I rev it up once to or past 2k rpms. But if I don't rev it the volt meter and DMM will read 12V don't you all get that???
How do you all want me to type it out. In spanish? I know that.
El pinche alternador no carga bien cuando prendo el pinche carro. Mi alternador de FC si carga bien cuando prendo el pinche carro!
At idle the FD alt charges to 14.7 after I rev it up once to or past 2k rpms. But if I don't rev it the volt meter and DMM will read 12V don't you all get that???
How do you all want me to type it out. In spanish? I know that.
El pinche alternador no carga bien cuando prendo el pinche carro. Mi alternador de FC si carga bien cuando prendo el pinche carro!
10-08-03, 10:01 PM
#41
Originally posted by 1987RX7guy
Jarret that is MY POOINT it is NOT ******* charging untill I rev it to 2k rpms. Then it jumps up to 14.7 and stays there. and it does it every time. my FC alternator charges to 13.5v all the time. The FC alt doesn't need me to rev the engine at all since it charges to 13.5.
At idle the FD alt charges to 14.7 after I rev it up once to or past 2k rpms. But if I don't rev it the volt meter and DMM will read 12V don't you all get that???
How do you all want me to type it out. In spanish? I know that.
El pinche alternador no carga bien cuando prendo el pinche carro. Mi alternador de FC si carga bien cuando prendo el pinche carro!
Jarret that is MY POOINT it is NOT ******* charging untill I rev it to 2k rpms. Then it jumps up to 14.7 and stays there. and it does it every time. my FC alternator charges to 13.5v all the time. The FC alt doesn't need me to rev the engine at all since it charges to 13.5.
At idle the FD alt charges to 14.7 after I rev it up once to or past 2k rpms. But if I don't rev it the volt meter and DMM will read 12V don't you all get that???
How do you all want me to type it out. In spanish? I know that.
El pinche alternador no carga bien cuando prendo el pinche carro. Mi alternador de FC si carga bien cuando prendo el pinche carro!
I had the EXACT similar experience with the FD alternator in my N/A. I provided you my reasoning as to why I felt it was behaving in this manner. I even went as far as to take it to get tested. It was fine. You can do what you like with the info I have given you.
Jarrett
10-08-03, 10:06 PM
#43
alright notches brought down!
Sorry about being an *** but it pisses me off that this **** is happening now. I can't really deal with problems with school and work right now.
So you all agree that when I turn on the car it is going to be at 12 volts even if I let it idle for say 10 minutes? It doesn't go to FULL charge untill I rev it past 2k. This is EXACTLY what you all do with your FD alts? If so then just say yes and that will be the end of my stupidity.
Sorry about being an *** but it pisses me off that this **** is happening now. I can't really deal with problems with school and work right now.
So you all agree that when I turn on the car it is going to be at 12 volts even if I let it idle for say 10 minutes? It doesn't go to FULL charge untill I rev it past 2k. This is EXACTLY what you all do with your FD alts? If so then just say yes and that will be the end of my stupidity.
10-08-03, 10:11 PM
#44
Black 13B,
Apparently, the drain I was talking about was just the S4 to S5 conversion, not the S4 to FD one. Or at least nobody has spoken up about it..
You've got it. The S4 switch is after the ignition. The S5 is before, so it is never turned off. I believe the S5 cars have a relay else where in the engine bay that is used for this purpose but I've never traced it back far enough to find it...
Anyway you look at it, this battery drain is a problem for the conversion.
Has anyone looked at the 3rd Gen alternator? Is it similar to the S5?
Apparently, the drain I was talking about was just the S4 to S5 conversion, not the S4 to FD one. Or at least nobody has spoken up about it..
You've got it. The S4 switch is after the ignition. The S5 is before, so it is never turned off. I believe the S5 cars have a relay else where in the engine bay that is used for this purpose but I've never traced it back far enough to find it...
Anyway you look at it, this battery drain is a problem for the conversion.
Has anyone looked at the 3rd Gen alternator? Is it similar to the S5?
10-08-03, 10:17 PM
#45
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Originally posted by J-Rat
Black 13B, Apparently, the drain I was talking about was just the S4 to S5 conversion, not the S4 to FD one. Or at least nobody has spoken up about it..
Black 13B, Apparently, the drain I was talking about was just the S4 to S5 conversion, not the S4 to FD one. Or at least nobody has spoken up about it..
I just left her for about 5 days before I attempted to start her (driving cavalier daily now) and she was cranking slow..
Edit - Ahhh ****. You know what? I just remembered I had the alternator removed and battery disconnected for the week it was sitting there getting new fuel lines.
My GXL during the summer was driven everyday.. I never had a problem, but then again, my GXL never really sat with everything connected for any length of time until just recently.
I better do something about that over the winter.. I'll see what I can find about fixing that.. Thanks for the info, J-Rat. I never woulda figured it out - I honestly just thought my battery was on the outs - It didn't look healthy anyways..
10-08-03, 10:45 PM
#46
Well from what Jarret told me he had the same thing happen and gave up on the FD alternator and went back to an FC alt. I hope this is just a RARE thing since I like my new alternator's capacity but I don't want the low voltage when i start it. 12V staring at you when you start her up is depressing :-/
Oh and sorry I was being a dumb ****.
Oh and sorry I was being a dumb ****.
10-08-03, 10:55 PM
#47
Okay. Santiago, It's like this. I've provided all Info pertaining to all your questions you posed to me. You go on to say that the FD Alternator Is the culprit to your poor Idle yet Imply that you had this existing problem (electrical system) even before the Instal. From when we last left off, I was led to believe that you were going to take It to Autozone. Will you take It their already and stop adding fillers?
No offense bud, I've figured out your method of posting. I knew, even before you started posting "where Is my FD Alternator?" In my Parts thread, I would never here the end of It should anything have flooped. I made sure that special attention was made to get this package from Toronto to Texas In pristine condition. Having It tested before me, packaging It tight and following you along the way awhile the Kit made It's way to you.
You have a FD Alternator that Is top notch In design and function. J-Rat's speaks of the same and he didn't even buy a FD Alternator off me! Seriously, have It tested first.
I encourage you take both the FD Alternator and your Battery for an assessment.
No offense bud, I've figured out your method of posting. I knew, even before you started posting "where Is my FD Alternator?" In my Parts thread, I would never here the end of It should anything have flooped. I made sure that special attention was made to get this package from Toronto to Texas In pristine condition. Having It tested before me, packaging It tight and following you along the way awhile the Kit made It's way to you.
You have a FD Alternator that Is top notch In design and function. J-Rat's speaks of the same and he didn't even buy a FD Alternator off me!
Seriously, have It tested first. I encourage you take both the FD Alternator and your Battery for an assessment.
10-08-03, 11:01 PM
#48
Okay
At this point I need to point out some things.
I DID NOT give up on the FD alternator conversion. And my statements were NOT intended to dissuade anyone from doing the conversion.
All I was saying is I had the same problems that Santiago had, and I have some theories about it.
I dont necessarily think that it indicates a bad alternator.
Furthermore, thanks for the suggestions Silverrotor, but I HAD the alternator tested, and it was fine. Not to mention I bought a BRAND NEW Optima just for my conversion.
Basically, I feel that the change in alternator pullies causes the alternator to come online slower. Some alternators will not start generating voltage until a certain rpm is reached.
With Santiago's AWS disabled (as I assume it is), the alternator probably isnt spinning fast enough until he revs the car. Then the alt comes online. NOW, I could be wrong, thats why its called a THEORY.
Jarrett
I DID NOT give up on the FD alternator conversion. And my statements were NOT intended to dissuade anyone from doing the conversion.
All I was saying is I had the same problems that Santiago had, and I have some theories about it.
I dont necessarily think that it indicates a bad alternator.
Furthermore, thanks for the suggestions Silverrotor, but I HAD the alternator tested, and it was fine. Not to mention I bought a BRAND NEW Optima just for my conversion.
Basically, I feel that the change in alternator pullies causes the alternator to come online slower. Some alternators will not start generating voltage until a certain rpm is reached.
With Santiago's AWS disabled (as I assume it is), the alternator probably isnt spinning fast enough until he revs the car. Then the alt comes online. NOW, I could be wrong, thats why its called a THEORY.
Jarrett
10-08-03, 11:05 PM
#49
Originally posted by silverrotor
Okay. Santiago, It's like this. I've provided all Info pertaining to all your questions you posed to me. You go on to say that the FD Alternator Is the culprit to your poor Idle yet Imply that you had this existing problem (electrical system) even before the Instal. From when we last left off, I was led to believe that you were going to take It to Autozone. Will you take It their already and stop adding fillers?
No offense bud, I've figured out your method of posting. I knew, even before you started posting "where Is my FD Alternator?" In my Parts thread, I would never here the end of It should anything have flooped. I made sure that special attention was made to get this package from Toronto to Texas In pristine condition. Having It tested before me, packaging It tight and following you along the way awhile the Kit made It's way to you.
You have a FD Alternator that Is top notch In design and function. J-Rat's speaks of the same and he didn't even buy a FD Alternator off me! Seriously, have It tested first.
I encourage you take both the FD Alternator and your Battery for an assessment.
Okay. Santiago, It's like this. I've provided all Info pertaining to all your questions you posed to me. You go on to say that the FD Alternator Is the culprit to your poor Idle yet Imply that you had this existing problem (electrical system) even before the Instal. From when we last left off, I was led to believe that you were going to take It to Autozone. Will you take It their already and stop adding fillers?
No offense bud, I've figured out your method of posting. I knew, even before you started posting "where Is my FD Alternator?" In my Parts thread, I would never here the end of It should anything have flooped. I made sure that special attention was made to get this package from Toronto to Texas In pristine condition. Having It tested before me, packaging It tight and following you along the way awhile the Kit made It's way to you.
You have a FD Alternator that Is top notch In design and function. J-Rat's speaks of the same and he didn't even buy a FD Alternator off me!
Seriously, have It tested first. I encourage you take both the FD Alternator and your Battery for an assessment.
Tony first off, I am in no way doubting or trying to make you look bad. Sorry if it is comming out like that. But Like I said you have been the best TOP NOTCH guy ever as far as our business. You shipped fast and the ONLY reason that I didn't get my alt on time was the US's mail system messed up and I said so. It was also my fault for wanting you to do 100% of the searching for my alt. It DID indeed arrive very well here and I have ZERO complaints about that. But I was un-aware of this possible problem/side-effect of having an FD alt. But to me it seems to be a problem as my FC alternator doesn't do this. Like I stated before I had an INCIDENT that resembled this BUT it was resolved by tightening the wires that go to the MAIN fuse. All of my work has been checked twice and redone just for human error's sake.
I think Jarret is on to something with his theory though. It would make sense that they don't charge untill they reach a pre-determined RPM.
Now I didn't say I WANT MY MONEY BACK BECAUE TONEY IS A CROOK now did I? I am just keeping you informed like you asked. I sent you a PM with info about what I had seen today and also because I had posted it and I didn't want it too look like I am bad mouthing you behind your back.
We clear? TONY is a GOOD GUY but I want my issues resolved.
10-08-03, 11:08 PM
#50
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Re: Okay
Originally posted by J-Rat
Basically, I feel that the change in alternator pullies causes the alternator to come online slower. Some alternators will not start generating voltage until a certain rpm is reached.
Basically, I feel that the change in alternator pullies causes the alternator to come online slower. Some alternators will not start generating voltage until a certain rpm is reached.
Solution?
hIGGI's Dual Sheave Alt pulleys.
Have you seen them in person? The have a considerable amount of less diameter than stock.
I think it might be enough to solve the idle issue. Even though idle isn't really even an "issue", IMO. It still charges fine, just not full output. For anyone running a massive stereo or something, then maybe it would be an issue for having all that draw on the battery and not having the alternator at max output.