clubber

So, from what I've seen FC's don't really do great at autocross. The FD's kick butt but I've yet to see an FC do well. I've tried autocrossing the turbo and it does OK but not as good as I expected. I've autocrossed off and on for over 20 years and had good success in several cars in the past. Im my wife's subaru (impreza 2.2 L.) I've been lucky enough to beat most WRX's that showed up but didn't really do much better in the FC. I'm just curious about other people's experiences.

Syonyk

They're old cars. You need to upgrade (and restore from "totally shot" to "working" status) the suspension, bushings, tires, etc.

Unless you've done that, you're dealing with a 15+ year old car that has OEM bushings, usually factory shocks, and often rubber that's not so interested in gripping the pavement as lasting 80,000 miles.

-=Russ=-

buttsjim

My experiences were years ago (1989) and I won my class (B-Stock) for the season with my TII. I don't remember other cars that were in the class at the time, other than the Eagle Talon 4wd (I think).

I did well against other classes. When I ran against the C3 corvettes, I'd destroy them. Against the C4s, I was middle of the pack.

I tried autocrossing again with the same car in 1999, but was less competitive. Seems like I was running against M3s, and such, and everyone was on racing tires. I ran on Dunlop street tires, which weren't up to the task (but niether was I). I was always middle of the pack, well behind the leaders, but well ahead of embarrassing myself. I still had fun, though.

BklynRX7

Its just the changing times. Yes a s5 has the same power as a civic si, but the s5 had that power in the 80's not 2000. Stock for stock most newer cars will beat older cars. Its called progression.

buttsjim

Yeah. That's why the TII was such a bargain in 1987. For the money, you just couldn't touch it. Nowadays, my 183 horsepower seems pretty meager.

MrDirt

My TII was 28k in 1988 according to the original window sticker... I wouldnt exactly call that a bargain.

buttsjim

I guess yours wasn't.

Mine listed for $21,204.00, and I got it for $18,600 in May, 1987. I had been saving for a Porshe 944, and that car was over $30K by the time I test drove my TII.

Shortly after I bought mine the MR2 Turbo came out, but I don't think it was available when I got the TII. Besides the MR2 Turbo (which I never test drove) the Supra Turbo was the only thing that came near the TII for the price. Forget the 300 ZX. The TII offered the best performance of all the cars I drove (that I could afford), and had the best price.

In 1987, the TII was a bargain.

fastrotaries

I don't see how you can call it a POS for autocrossing. In the ASP category, well done it's a good contender. My first season as a novice I chased a Viper ALL SEASON LONG...by like .05 of a second, and we were both stock for stock. I don't see how you can call that a POS. Yes it's different and OLD, but certainly not a POS to be counted out. OLD DTSS bushings can certainly make it alot harder than it has to be.

88GT

Just reading your post I'd it's the driver.. meaning try learning the car's strenghts. Are you auto x'ing seriously or just weekend fun? Is the car setup stock or modified for a particular class? The 2nd gen RX7's are great platforms but as with anything must be used to their strenghts. Auto x'ing is less about power and more on chassis set-up, tire choice and most of all the driver. Just opinions.. Good luck!

MrDirt

I will take your opinion as more valid than my own, as I was only three years old when my car was sitting new on the lot.

iceblue

WTF do they put in the water where you live?

The 13bT FC I just built near stock kills everything around here there is under 1 handful of cars that can beat it JDM wise and a few American cars.
1. 911 turbo
2. z06 hooked up
3. 04 SC stage 3 mustang cobra and work done.
4. two FDs. One puts down 450hp the other 490
5. one STI on a 68 trim

These cars pull over 1G in the skid pad with tiers and struts. Either you suck at driving or have no performance experience.

ScrapFC

iTrader: (5)

My GXL tends to get me Street Tire awards at my local autocrosses. I run in CSP against race-tire-equipped CRX's and Miatas and I'm usually not too far behind them.

dsmrx7

WTF?!? FC's are GREAT for Auto-X (IMO). I've owned EVO VIII's and STI's in Auto-X. And mine's an S4 N/A with "bolt-ons.'' Of course, I've changed the suspension, brakes, and tires. It all boils down to the Driver.

clubber

OK, at least I should clarify my statement. My car will never be competative because it's a sport that was converted to a T2. By SCCA rules, no way can I run stock because it's not originally a turbo. I've had many partial and a few hardcore autocross years and won for the year in stock class once. But, I kind of keep track of what the competition is and what other peoples close to stock RX's do and we are nothin special. I think what was said that progress marches on and these cars aren't new anymore and neither am I.
My car has the following handling mods KYB AGX's, dtss eliminators, and new rear suspension and diff bushings. I have 16x7 Enki rims and Kumho 712 tires in 225/50.
I really do like the way my RX handles too. But damn are those new (near stock) Honda's and MINI's are fast, and in stock classes too! I would like to know what's good for the money in handling mods. I'm planning on Coil overs and massive chassis stiffening. The tein coil overs if they are still good stuff in a year or two.
I think I overdid it with POS but it made for lots of responses.

MountainTurbo

Yah, they can still be pretty competitive cars. I raced regularly against a C5 and a mini cooper S in BSP, and beat the cooper handily while being just 2 seconds behind the C5 (he had racing slicks, I had street tires).

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

I drive my TII and once I learned how to modulate the go-pedal, the car is pretty damn fun for autox!

you can keep up with the miatas and civics no problem.

fstrnyou

I used to auto-x regularly while mine was completely stock. 225/45 kumho 712's. I only ran with BMW Z3's and some other small/sporty cars. I definately remember staying ahead of the Z3 the entire event. I had a friend with a C4 vette. I was tickled that I beat his times on a regular basis. Even though he was experiencing ABS and Traction Control issues. The C4 weighs almost 300lbs more than the FC, but with massives tires(255/275) and much more HP(300/350TQ).

Black91n/a

Well if you have 712's and the compoetition has race tires, then you will never be able to compete if they are half decent drivers.

I started autocrossing this year and have been to about a dozen events and have gotten to be not too bad at it. My car's hopelessly outclassed though. I'm in CSP with a car that's not too far from stock. The miatas kill me. The car's just too heavy, that's all. Why do old Civics', CRX's, and Miata's win? They weigh just over 2000lbs, the FC weighs just under 3000lbs depending on the models and such. The Miatas will always be more nimble and they have a bettere stock suspension set up.

Now I'm not saying to give up, but the FC isn't an ideal autocross car. It is quite good at road racing though, and you can tke solice from the fact that many of the cars that are beating you would loose to you on a race track.

Eternal_Gamer

iTrader: (10)

I think it soley depends on the driver's preference.

fstrnyou

yeah, wether he prefers to lose or not.

put a roll cage in it and race those civics and miatas on a road course, Good suggestion Black91

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

it's all about setup, we have a seven at our events that is an S5 n/a that beats the **** out of my times and my car is moderately modified. his car is gutted, no where near stock but also has less power than my car. miatas stick very well which is why they do so well, our cars are heavier and tend to understeer grossly unless you have modified suspension or stickies.

it only takes a little bit of work to bring these cars up to today's standards and beat brand new cars with supposed better engineering.

Jrodwnc

I thoutht my 87 gxl sucked at autocross until I let a girl drive it......yes a girl. She was 2seconds quicker than me on the first run. So, I went out and beat her the next run. This showed I was taking the wrong approach to the course. Its all Driver, Driver, Driver. On another note....we had a guy set FTD in a stock FOCUS SVT on Hankook slicks against a field of 80 cars w/ a bunch of STis on a wet course.

GodSquadMandrake

True.

The FD has better handling stock for stock. It's also more of a sports car then a bargain sports car like the FC so you get what you pay for.

I can tell that the FC chassis has a lot more potential, but as it is my 88 Jetta can run circles around it in the handling, acceleration, and gas mileage departments.
The FC is a fast car, but just not out of the box, you have to work on it.

--MAstermind--

all in all the FD handles better due to the double wishbone setup.....the 88 stuff is basically antiquated but hell toss some tien HA's and bracing gut the car and leave the stock T2 engine setup on some yokohama AO32R shaved..... and i could probly bet that car with a great driver would hand anythings *** to it...or hang right up on it....

buttsjim

No way. In the late 80's, against its contemporaries, the stock FC (TII) was fast. I believe it was the SCCA B-stock national champion in '88 or '89. I was in a different class than the Jettas, BMW 318s, and whatnot, but their times were never close to being as fast as mine. The only cars I recall giving me trouble were the C4 Vettes (Super Stock) and the original MR2 (C Stock). Even the Porsche 911s were slower than me, but I always attributed that to the drivers.

I tried not to do anything to my car that would bump my car into the prepared or street prepared classes--once you did one thing, you had to do everything in order to compete with the cars that were heavily modded.