Originally Posted by GTU_FAN

Thanks for all the imput guys... but it dosen't seem like most of you even read my post. Most of your suggestions are just wrong. If you read it you'd realize that.


-Remove weight... Sure I'll try it out but I would think that reducing weight on the front would help with understeer not the rear...

-Add camber... Sure I'll try it out. But I want to get some decent mileage out of my tires.

-Better tires... for the track sure I'd like better tires. I plan on having a set of track/wheels tires as soon as I can afford it. But on the street my tires are better then 95% of the competition as it is.

-You are correct I could benefit from less preload. But that isn't as big of a problem as the size of the swaybar itself.

-Stiffen my rear struts? Not any more on the street. They are stiffer then they need to be on "6". I get absolutely no squat on launches and hardly any give over curbs and what not. On the track though I dont mind stiffening them more.

You also mentioned driving style changes. I didn't say... dont mention driving style changes but I should have. I've had this car long enough to have tried many different methods of corner entry. When its helpful I will induce oversteer. When its not I wont. That dosen't change the fact I want my car to be capable of less understeer. If I wanted advice on how to drive I would have asked for it. But thanks anyway you were only trying to help.

Correct. I realize this is one mistake I've made in my cars setup. Larger diameter sway bars make the suspension stiffer and transfer more weight to the end of the car where they are installed. If the car is understeering, you can increase rear sway bar diameter or decrease front sway bar diameter to restore balance. Anti-roll bars should be chosen to match your springs. If you are planning on installing stiff springs, there is no need for a large diameter sway bar.

-Remove my strut brace? No... I put it on there for a reason. It makes the chassis much more responsive. Both because of less flex keeping the front tires on the ground and helps steering response. I could literally drive 10mph faster on a challenging touge because of the strut brace. If I remove it the car might be more neutral but it'd be slower. No thanks.

-You described the weight-transfer thing wrong... but I catch your drift... like I said though I dont need advice on how to drive.

-Toyo tires offers that size in a 15" as well...check out their website if you dont believe me. I said I ran vert wheels so there's no doubt about how big my rims are.

-Stiffen my front struts... yes I already plan too thanks for the good advice.


-Soften my front struts? No... they are already too soft for the higher spring rates. I get lots of bounce on a touge. Not so much on the track of course. I agree with your statement in theory though.

-That's cool that you experiment with links that way but mines an s5 and I dont think you can press bushings in and out of those plastic ones so easily? I may be wrong.

-
-Screw with tire pressure... Sure I'll try it out as long as it dosen't make wear much worse. I told you what size tires I have. I should probably loose some pressure in the front tires to help with understeer.

-The tire pressure thing is the only thing you mentioned that makes any sense in regards to my car. Were you trying to comment on Sideways7's car?

Originally Posted by rotarydelight

WELL SINCE YOU DONT WANT TO COMPROMISE STREETABLITY ANYMORE AND CANT AFFORD TRACK TIRES, AND ARE NOT WILLING TO CHANGE YOUR DRIVING STYLE MAYBE THINGS SHYOULD BE LEFT AS IS AND YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY YOUR CAR HANDLES THIS WELL ANYWAY.

Originally Posted by DeucesWildfc

I was talking to a guy that competed with his FC in a pro amature drift comp and he said that CHANGING THE CASTER ANGLE more positive(bringing the front wheel back) has made a significant change in the understeer of the car. It may be the geometry messing with the works of you car . Also having a rigid rear setup will help with this as previously sugested.

Originally Posted by Sideways7

To be fair, he said he didn't want what little help he was given, as it was "blanket statements that apply to all cars." Last time I checked, rx-7s were included in the "all cars" group. Since it appears he already knows how suspention changes affect balance, I'm not really sure what hes looking for. He should know what to change to get less understeer. The suggestion of going to the race tech section is a very good idea, as they will know the true specifics more than most people in the general tech section.

Originally Posted by Nihilanthic

I really think you should fix the driver before you go trying to **** with the chassis. And "clutch kicking" and E-brake pulling is kind of lame just FYI. Stop watching InitialD. You might be understeering because youre just not cornering right or just too fast, period.

Originally Posted by Blue TII

Finally some help for you. When I added my rear strut tower bar it FINALLY stopped the frustrating FC understeer and really helped wheel hop too! I can actually adjust my line with throttle lift oversteer.

My set-up- full poly bush, DTSS elim bush, spherical sway bar links, JIC FLT-A2, JIC front and rear CF strut tower bars. I added the rear bar last (because of the drilling speaker towers) and it was the piece that fixed the FC.

Also, you can always try a little rear toe out if you are brave.

Originally Posted by GTU_FAN

Yes it is a good idea. I do know how suspension changes affect balance...that sort of general information wont help me as much as specific information.



Um, I hope your not referring to me dude... I am not some kind of drifter-wannabe-noob. I know how to take a corner properly. There is a difference between taking a corner too fast and finding the limit of the corner. Every car, when driven to its limit will understeer.

You insult me with your presumptions and you embarass yourself. I remember your rants in other threads and you seem to have trouble keeping cool but I didn't think you would stoop so low as to make up **** like this. Get a life.



Great advice I have some wheel hop right now as a matter of fact.

Originally Posted by GTU_FAN

Every car, when driven to its limit will understeer.

Originally Posted by spot_skater

So much for not throwing parts at it, huh?

Originally Posted by Sideways7

We need to get someone with a lot of experience in here to straighten this out. Maybe reted or someone will drop by.

Originally Posted by sleeepyhead

To fix this understeer what you want to do is make sure the rubber that you have on the front tires can stay as flat as it can when turning. Since 2nd gens have ghetto mcphearson struts up front, camber gain is non existant so any body roll will throw the tire on its sidewall, all of the grip will be gone. Proof is, when lowering the rear goes crazy (semi trailing arm) with camber and front doesnt, the rear has a nice camber curve and front sucks.

Also, the more you lower the front the worse your curve gets. Go look at your control arms, notice they point upwards(if lowered). They move in an arc as suspension compresses while the struts go nearly up and down, so the more the suspension compresses, the bottom of the tire will move inwards while the top stays where it is, a lowered fc loses camber as suspension compresses leading to understeer.

Wider tires wont make a differance since you are gonna be on your sidewall when cornering anyway. The best way to fix this is prevent bodyroll. A swaybar does this.

Common knowlege says stiffer sway in front, understeer, stiffer rear, oversteer. This is because while sways reduce roll, they increase weight transfer which means less grip(cars lifting inside tires have stiff sways). In a car with double wishbone suspension on all 4 corners this logic applies, but in the streetable lowered 2nd gen's situation, losing the inside tire when turning is better than using only the sidewalls of both tires. So try the stiffer FRONT bar, it will allow you to stay conservative on camber and still grip pretty well, worked for me.

Originally Posted by BLUE TII

Finally some help for you

When I added my rear strut tower bar it FINALLY stopped the frustrating FC understeer and really helped wheel hop too! I can actually adjust my line with throttle lift oversteer.

My set-up- full poly bush, DTSS elim bush, spherical sway bar links, JIC FLT-A2, JIC front and rear CF strut tower bars. I added the rear bar last (because of the drilling speaker towers) and it was the piece that fixed the FC.

Also, you can always try a little rear toe out if you are brave.

Originally Posted by eatmyclutch

DTSS eliminators?

Originally Posted by sleeepyhead

To fix this understeer what you want to do is make sure the rubber that you have on the front tires can stay as flat as it can when turning. Since 2nd gens have ghetto mcphearson struts up front, camber gain is non existant so any body roll will throw the tire on its sidewall, all of the grip will be gone. Proof is, when lowering the rear goes crazy (semi trailing arm) with camber and front doesnt, the rear has a nice camber curve and front sucks.

Also, the more you lower the front the worse your curve gets. Go look at your control arms, notice they point upwards(if lowered). They move in an arc as suspension compresses while the struts go nearly up and down, so the more the suspension compresses, the bottom of the tire will move inwards while the top stays where it is, a lowered fc loses camber as suspension compresses leading to understeer.

Wider tires wont make a differance since you are gonna be on your sidewall when cornering anyway. The best way to fix this is prevent bodyroll. A swaybar does this.

Common knowlege says stiffer sway in front, understeer, stiffer rear, oversteer. This is because while sways reduce roll, they increase weight transfer which means less grip(cars lifting inside tires have stiff sways). In a car with double wishbone suspension on all 4 corners this logic applies, but in the streetable lowered 2nd gen's situation, losing the inside tire when turning is better than using only the sidewalls of both tires. So try the stiffer FRONT bar, it will allow you to stay conservative on camber and still grip pretty well, worked for me.

Originally Posted by RETed

The big question that pops up in my mind is...

With the coilovers, has this car ever been corner-weighted?

Originally Posted by rotarydrifter90

What it really depemds on is what kind of drifting your doing.

high speed=super still shocks and a semi soft rear sway to get the weight to throw.

low speed/touge= semi hard front shocks and soft rear, hard front sway and a stiff rear sway and putting a rear tie in will give the rear the agility it needs

and run a stiffer compound tire more pressure and maybe a smaller width. im running 205 and s tech springs with blues for shocks and stock sways and when i turn the pressuer up i get sideways pretty easy

Originally Posted by Blue TII

Benicia, cool- the BLUE TII and I have spent some time in that town. Saw one red TII for sale once about seven years ago, but no other 7s.

As far as front camber, it really depends on how much body roll you have. Best ways to judge is feel the tire temp accross its width, chalk down onto the sidewall to see how it is rolling over at the shoulder or have an informed friend watch the car run.

The FLT-A2 I use have 700K and 500K springs, so body roll is very low on max perf summer tires.

Now that I run stickier RA-1 I actually have enough grip to induce some body roll but I have found as little as 2 1/4 deg is working well as a compromise with daily driving.

On "normal" street tires 3 1/2 deg was way too much causing underseer, I actually ran at 1 1/2 deg.

I also run 7 1/2" rim up front and 8" rim in the rear with same width tires all the way around as I feel the narrower front rim causes a slight roundness to the tread that works well with the limitations of the strut suspension.

It definitely tends toward oversteer still, which I think is the fastest way around the track since you can use the oversteer to adjust your line with throttle inputs (more OR less throttle) and negate the oversteer with steering inputs.

Originally Posted by fc3s-infini

Come to think of it, when I put in my rear strut brace it made the car handle so much better and all I have is DTSS eliminator bushes, stock swaybars and Bilstein shocks with Eibach springs. I have the worst tyres ever and it does not understeer very often, unless I really push it into corners...

Just for everyone's information, i was joking about popping the clutch.