I have an 86 NA FC with 4 pot/1 pot brakes. I will be running street tires (over 200 treadwear) on tracks 1 mile - 2 + miles in length.

I am looking at geting Hawks pads. They are not my favorite, but are half the price of most everything else.

I am wondering what will work better for me, HPS or HP+ pads.

Any help or experience would be great.

 

I'd use HPS if you care about brake dust and noise. They also wear out rotors less than the HP+. Other than that, HP+ would be a good choice. I personally run HPS since I've never really seen a need to upgrade. Maybe when I make a little bit more power, I'll go to the other ones.

 

I have both, HPS for street and HP+ for track... worth taking the time changing pads.

 

Do you just autocross or do track days as well? You have more power and better tires than me, so HPS might be ok for now. I don't know what pad is on my car now, but I was getting them to fade pretty easily as Streets of Willow.

And yes, I know HP+ are the worst for noise, rotor wear and dust

 

Ran the HP+ on my '90 NA with the turbo brake setup for about 16 track days over the past 2 years and was very happy with them. Replaced the rears towards the end of that period. Apparently incorrect brake bias.

The '90 NA is now history, but will be trying the same brake pad setup on my "new" '91 Turbo. Only thing is, ya gotta heat em up to get peak performance out of them. Not a great pad for the daily driver IMO. Acceptible, but not the best option.

 

Different tracks put different stresses on the braking system. Some tracks you'll need race pads, others, street pads will be ok. At first when you're a novice you can get away with less brake, because you're not going as fast, but IMHO, going with HPS' for track use is dumb. I'd MUCH rather put in the little extra effort to swap pads and suffer through the noise and dust for a little while to KNOW that I'll have good brakes on track. I've been using Porterfield R4 on track and they've been fine for me, even on race tires.

I'd run AT LEAST HP+. I've run them, they're not nearly as bad for noise and dust as real race pads.

 

I'm not new to tracks and agressive pads, just new to this car. I'm not opposed to swapping pads, and whatever is on it now is fine for the street. I definately do not need race pads for the car as it sits now and I know I don't need anything more agressive than HP+. If HPS are OK for autocross guys, then I may need HP+ for the track to handle some extra heat. Again, I'm not even running really sticky tires yet, so that is why I am unsure.

Carbotechs are my favorite, but the cost is over double, so I am sticking with Hawks.

 

Normally, I run Hawk blues(f)+blacks(r) on my track FC, but in the past I have run HP+ pads (accidentally - I had put them on for an auto-x a few weeks before and forgot to swap them back out).

We really abused them - two of us were double stinting the car so it was out there two out of four sessions. This was on a track that is fairly hard on brakes (VIR South). Surprisingly they held up without incident until the afternoon on the second day when they faded out at the end of the front straight (luckily there is plenty of paved run off space there, so I just collected a souvenir cone, got turned around and drove back on).

So as far as a light-duty track pad goes, I'd say that they're pretty okay. I would not run the HPS on the track.

-b

 

Thanks for the info. It sounds like you are running race tires as well? How much power are you making?

 

Heh, heh, I went off there one time when running the Grand course. Love the runoff, which as you know is part of the Full course. I've also been off in the dirt at the end of the main straight a couple of times. Maybe I should ditch the HP+ pads?

 

i run hp+ on my vert street car little dust never hurt anyone and iam really hard on brakes im very happy with them

 

I used the EBC green stuff pads on the GXL, but the TII uses the Hawk hp pads

 

Your avatar is the best man!

 

Green stuff? Holy crap. I used those for my first ever event and they held up OK. The second event I attended I had them down to the backing plates by the end of the first run session! This is with a Turbo II.

I've been using carbotech pads but I've been wearing through them way too fast. I think I'm gonna switch to the hawk blue and black combo because there seems to be a consensus that they wear well, and they're pretty cheap.

 

I was running fairly fresh Toyo RA1's. Not a lot of power (I guess about 160 rwhp for a stock S5 NA) and I was coming into the braking zone at about 125 (feathering the top of 4th with a 4.3 rear end) and trying to go in fairly deep.

-b

(ps - with a good suspension, sticky tires, a true race seat and harnesses a 2400 lbs. 160rwhp FC is a complete blast to drive around a track. You don't need a boatload of power to have a truly insane amount of fun ).

 

I have heard nothing good about any of the EBC pads.

I like the blues up front - with a 2400 lbs car they always seem to be whispering in my ear: "come on, wimp-boy, you can go a whole lot deeper in that turn than you're doing!" I think that the blacks in the back are still a little too much pad to run w/o having a proportioning valve. I have heard of people that run HP+ in the back to get a little more front bias.

-b

 

So, I go to little Talledega in Alabama often, and I have never needed to change my pads in two years. It seems weird when my friends in an MR2 and S2000 eat up their pads in the first sessions.

I drive in the torque curve and lift slightly for slowdown, and brake only for the weight shift.

When driving on the street I mostly downshift until I need to use the brakes and push in the clutch.

I pull pretty good times in my car at lil Talledega too. The turbo'd mr2 pushes 1:16.9 while I'm at 1:18.6, not bad when he has a lot more horsepower, suspension, and brakes.

I don't think that my driving is horrible either. Sometimes I'll lose the backend because of the lifting, but I've gotten first in class in autocrosses and tend to do pretty well at that track. An experience passenger (944t) even thinks that I brake hard, but just at the right time.

 

I can imagine. The car is a lot of fun as is. Thank you for the info, that was really helpful.

 

There's nothing wrong with EBC's pads, just that the green stuff aren't meant for track use, they're a street/autox pad with very good cold performance, and can't take the temperatures generated by heavy track use.

 

My bad then. I was looking at them a while back as replacement pads on my wife's Audi. All I seemed to find were mediocre reviews at best, both for their green as well as their red compounds. If someone has had good experience with the pads, I'd like to hear about it.

Thanks,

-b

 

A freind ran new EBC Yellowstuffs on his Nissan Skyline GTR (R32) and they would seriously fade (pad fade: stiff pedal, not much deceleration) within only a few laps, and that was on street tires with the boost turned down. Yes it's a lot more powerful and heavier than an FC, but still. I wouldn't be using them any time soon.

 

Delphi Lockheed Brake Pads are actually amazing!! Had EBC Green on the car before and was going to get them again but they were out of stock, so went for top of the range Delphi and they are actually really good, the best brake pads I've had on the car so far and I do get through brake pads, I'm Defo getting them again.

 

I run HPS as street pads on my turbo Miata (219 rwhp) and they're excellent for street and autocross. For track work, I started with Hawk HP+ (street tires) but soon outgrew them. I now use Porterfield R4 and they work fine. For a stock NA FC on street tires, the HP+ will work fine on most tracks. Heavy braking tracks or R compound tires will demand more pad though.

 

HPS for light autocross and street, HP+ for heavy autocross and street. You will need Blues for serious track work, at least in the front if not all four wheels. Blues are NOT for the street. I haven't had good luck with the Blacks.

Greenstuff is good for show cars because it produces hardly any dust, and it works well on the street although I would not consider it a performance pad. Although I have mostly used Hawk pads, I am going to try the EBC Yellowstuff next, as it looks like it should work well on the street as well as light track duty.

 

I used the Green stuff pads in autox at Arrowhead stadium and road racing at Heartland park with no problems at all. Also had them paired with Powerstop slotted rotors.