PistonSmash

iTrader: (7)

If you have come in contact with me before, you probably know I own an FC. My car is a hand me down from my brother which had problems from the time we bought it to today. Because of a recurring issue I'm having with it right now (not the subject of this thread) as well as a want of a certain body style etc., I'm looking to buy a new FC and sell mine. (Easy way out? Maybe) I have found one that I am interested in. It's an 89 NA GTU that is red and has all the external amenities I was looking to mod onto my current car. It is pretty clean on the outside and on the inside as well. It even has the stock radio, crazy right? It is right now in a used car lot, but it has only had one owner who sold it to a mazda dealer,who then sold it to this lot. It appears to be unmodified. It has 77,000 miles. The reason I am giving you this background information is because I need some help from you guys. Because the car is in another state and quite far away, I am unable to go and check it out myself or with my trusted brother. However, my good friend who owns a used car lot is going to the same town where this 7 is to pick up cars he just bought. I have an opportunity to have him go to this lot and pick up the 7 for me. This is where my request of you brilliant 7 owners comes into place.

I have been looking online for a "buyer's guide" that I could give to my friend so that he can check for well known problems and issues with the car so that I don't buy a clunker. He is by no means a rotary-knowledgeable person. However, he has 27 years of experience with regular piston engine cars. I trust the man to find normal every-car faults, but I need a solid list of things for him to check that are commonplace on the 7 so he can tell me whether its a ok buy or not. I am fully aware that I should check for common things, and change the oil and belts, and plugs etc.etc. What I need from you all is a list of the most common issues that my friend can check on the 7 that may be hidden or that are signs that I should not buy the car. I'm most worried about the engine, because other things I can swap from my current FC before I sell it. Please, if you understand what I mean, help a brother out. I need your help, and I am on my metaphorical knees begging for it. Thank you.

(for the record, I extensively searched the search bar, google and even aaroncake's guides for this "list" I'm looking for, but none of these things helped.)

EDIT: I forgot to add, it is an automatic, and if I buy it I plan on converting it to manual. Please consider this as well. They are asking $3400 for the car, but my friend will be able to get it for at least $3000 perhaps less. I will have to pay $600 for shipping....

PistonSmash

iTrader: (7)

hioctane-dtc

iTrader: (1)

Read this guide from Aaron Cake, I followed it when I bought my '91 NA.

How To Buy An '86-'92 Non-Turbo RX-7

Based on the pictures, I would think the TPS and radiator would need to be checked.

You should search on the forum about converting automatic to manual... that should give you a better idea of how much money/labor is involved if you do go for this car.

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

Not that it matters much, but that's a GXL, not a GTU. You can see the AAS actuators on the shock towers, plus the leather interior and fog lights.

Aaron's Buyer's Guide is very helpful and pretty definitive.

To me, the biggest concern in the Northeast is rust. Check the floors from underneath the car, as well as the unibody frame rails. If any of this is soft and/or crunchy, walk away. Most minor mechanical stuff can be repaired a lot cheaper and more easily than widespread rust. The car looks good up top in the photos, but so did my '90 GTU that I junked due to structural rust issues underneath.

PistonSmash

iTrader: (7)

Sorry about that. My knowledge of the model terms is slim, apparently. Your suggestion is a great one, and definitely something I'll have him check out. Thanks a lot!

PistonSmash

iTrader: (7)

What specifically about the TPS and the radiator did you notice that turned you on to them? The TPS of the 7 is probably the biggest thing I don't understand. The radiator I can understand, but I don't know what you see externally.

wthdidusay82

iTrader: (15)

For the mileage the car has its worth it in my opinion, as long as its in good condition.

Id really want to have compression numbers though if possible and check if it burns any coolant or overheats, also check to make sure its not in limp mode from a bad e-omp (which forces you to pre-mix)


You could probably swap your 5 speed pedal assembly into the other car if you wanted to save a few bucks.

Broke_A_Baller

iTrader: (26)

Just curious...would it take less than $3400 to fix or modify your current fc to the way you would like it? Honestly I was in the same situation in my current build because I had rust issues, but after thinking and realizing that it may be a little more work for the repairs, but in the end i would save money in the long run just repairing rather than buying a new fc.

PistonSmash

iTrader: (7)

I have thought about it, but decided against it for the fact that there is just too much money being poured into it to make it worth it. It's already on its second engine. Things are breaking left and right. I have rust issues. I have this issue I can't figure out yet to resolve which is costing me even more money. Then, on top of that, to convert it to an S5 would cost me more on top of that. If, God willing, this red 7 is in good condition, it is almost like a magic cure all, you know? It's all one color, no visible rust (and hopefully none underneath), its already S5 with the wing and mirrors I want and low mileage. All I really have to do is pop my existing exhaust system on and do the manual swap, which my current 7 will be a donor for and I'm done. I could finally enjoy the car for once instead of having to deal with an aging and dying one. It's almost like the car has cancer. No matter how many times I treat it, fix it, and take care of it, the problem just reoccurs. Plus, I think it would take a smarter mind than mine to fix. I can't figure it out, my brother can't figure it out. I'm still trying and researching, but...you know?

beefhole

iTrader: (29)

The best advice for buying an FC... Don't buy one

PistonSmash

iTrader: (7)

but...I like them

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

Well, most people posting in this sub-forum own at least one FC, so you'll find a lot of sympathy here. But the fact remains, buying a 25-year old RX-7 probably doesn't make a lot of rational sense.

PistonSmash

iTrader: (7)

well I am on a limited budget, so if I'm going to buy something cheap and used, I might as well have some fun with it.

Broke_A_Baller

iTrader: (26)

RX7's are cheap??? maybe the car itself, but seriously I have dropped over $4k on just the parts I'm buying for it so far....I sometimes feel that I should have just saved the cash, but what fun would that be?

If you seriously would like an FC and are on a budget then would it not be the best to wait and save money until you find one that you really do not need to alter or change? For now, get a more reliable car until you can save more money up?

This way, you do not have to worry about replacing parts and wasting your time changing crap on a car you would just buy? That is roughly $4000 your going to be spending without even test driving it.....I spent like $800 on my Rx7 when I bought it, yes it did have a bit of rust, but I took that into consideration and already know it will be roughly around 1500+/- for my cousins shop to repair and do all the metal work...

Do you happen to rebuild the motor or do things to it to assist it in becoming a more reliable motor? I know even with other motors I've swapped in my previous cars, besides my old Eg with the K20/K24, I have always replaced ALL of the belts before I would put it in my car....This way I would save the annoyance of doing it a month down the road and I know it was done.....

As far as rotary motors go, I am new to these, but I have noticed that for the most part people replace the apex seals or all that crap before actually using the motor (well I guess the individuals that are building the motor at least) and they do not seem to have "problems" with them....


I have a few cars and I bought my FC with the intention of spending thousands of dollars on it even though it will more likely than not be a garage queen/track car (oxymoron ehhh??)....


just my 2 cents...I kind of went on about crap, but seriously think before you jump on a car that you technically will not be able to see

PistonSmash

iTrader: (7)

I understand what you are saying, and you're right, to a point. The only difference I can see from what you are saying is that I'm sure the parts you are buying are mods you want to put on your car for performance. I'm not planning on doing any thing like that. I don't plan on tracking my cars, I'm not an amateur racer or drifter, and I certainly don't street race. I barely even push my car right now as it is. So I'm not really going to be modifying it. If I were to buy this 7 the only "mods" I would do would barely cost me any money at all. I would replace the exhaust on it for the set I have on my current FC, which costs no money. I would probably replace the radio, no money. I would swap the rims, no money. The only thing that would cost me money is the manual swap, which wouldn't even be that big of a deal because I would do the work myself. Unless my current parts are more worn than I like, I won't need to buy anything new except for the trans mounts I believe it was. I would definitely replace the belts, plugs, pads and rotors, maybe even the tires, but that kind of stuff I don't see as an expense more than a necessary safety precaution.

Nevertheless, I understand your point and I will take that into consideration. Thank you for your input.

PistonSmash

iTrader: (7)

Speaking of which, thats a good point to be brought up. Will an S4 Manual tranny even be compatible with this S5 engine? I have no clue, do you?

hioctane-dtc

iTrader: (1)

The TPS looks rather rusted, so I would think that it will need a new unit.... mine had to be changed when I first got it, and lots of adjusting was needed to make it work properly. (but my mechanic during that time did not do a great job... and said it was fine...)

The radiator itself tends to have issues due to the age of the car, whether it be coolant hoses, heater hose connectors, radiator itself, or the water pump... If it's factory, I'd anticipate for change/upgrade down the road.... take it for a spin and you would know.

hioctane-dtc

iTrader: (1)

No, S4 tranny can only be mated with S4 engines, likewise for the S5... search it up on the forum and you will find lots of info about that.

Reading up what you and everyone else said, it's totally fine with what you plan to do with your car... what we are trying to do is provide suggestions so it would be easier down the road.

I've had my FC for 3 years now, and I spent way over what the car is worth originally, so don't think of an easy way out. Prepare for the worse and plan with a good budget for the unexpected. You never know what section or which part will need to be fixed/changed after you get it, and after you do the manual swap, and etc.

For daily driving and a cheaper tranny setup, you could consider a newer 5 speed miata tranny. Closer ratio and fairly easy to find compared to finding a good condition S5 tranny.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

All second gen transmissions are interchangeable (S4 & S5) if you use the correct flywheel, balance weight and starter.
The S4 NA trans will bolt right up to a S5 NA engine.

As for the car...
I've found that by far the most expensive thing to fix is paint/bodywork.
Get the best body you can find, one easy (and semi reliable) check is to look at the pinch welds running down the length of the undercarriage, if that is straight and unflattened, it's a very good sign for the floorpan.
Dings/dents in the panels count less if they are on replaceable panels than on the body proper.
Some of the exterior trim is stupid expensive, if your rubber trim on the sides of the windshield and the drip seals at the bottom of the side glass are bad, expect to spend a lot of cash to replace with new.
In the inside of the car, it's almost always the vents that are broken and the driver seat worn.
Electrics are a known weak spot in the FC, make sure everything works. The headlight/wiper/power window switches are particularly prone to failure.
The brakes are pretty standard and easy to work with.
The suspension is not too bad but you might be needing bushings, that can get a little spendy if you farm it out, otherwise it's just a dirty time consuming job but not really difficult.

PistonSmash

iTrader: (7)

Is there a way to know if the car is in Limp Mode without a computer, I'm guessing? Something my friend can spot just by inspecting it?

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

Unlike S4 cars, S5s have a Check Engine light. If it is in limp mode, the Check Engine light should be lit up, unless the owner has deliberately removed it. (Presence of a functioning Check Engine light can be easily verified when the ignition key is first turned.) When you attempt to drive the car in limp mode, it will only rev up to a fairly low limit; I forget how high, but it's low enough that you will notice the total lack of power.

Broke A Baller does make a good point, which is that the purchase price of an FC is often just the beginning of what you'll be spending on it. Even if you do all the work yourself, these are very old cars so you will be buying a fair number of parts. If it is running properly when you buy it, you still need to budget for replacing things that are worn and old. You should plan to replace the pulsation damper with either a factory part or do the banjo bolt mod. You should begin systematically replacing all the tired old hoses: start with radiator and heater hoses, flexible brake lines, oil cooler lines, vacuum lines, fuel lines, etc. You should set aside some money for an engine rebuild/swap because they are not unheard of in the least. I think S5 NA motors tend to die prematurely. Has the engine in this '89 GXL been rebuilt yet? I bought mine in 1995 so it was close to new. It died at 89,000 miles in 2000 after regular 3000 mile oil changes and very careful treatment.

At this point in these cars' lives, I would not recommend them to anyone as a daily driver. I think they are just too old. Not that you can't do it if you have the time, money and skills. And you need to have alternative transportation available for the days when the car isn't working, or when you're waiting for a part to be delivered that you had to special order. Now as a second car, I'd recommend one to anybody who likes them.

PistonSmash

iTrader: (7)

Thank you for explaining that to me, that will be extremely helpful!

To answer the other part of your comment, I have to say, I know I probably sound like I am rationalizing, but I am prepared for those expenses on this red 7. I look at it this way, either I pay for those things on my 7 I have now, which is falling apart and already on its second engine, or I buy this slightly newer 7 which (I pray) is in WAY better condition, and in the long run pay for those expenses anyway. The difference is, I pay for those things on the style of 7 I actually like better, and which is in better (not top notch of course) condition. In the long run, I think my expenses will be slightly less on the red 7 than on my current 7 just based on the overall condition. Plus, either way I'm in this for the long haul,regardless of which 7 I'm driving, you know? I just have the opportunity right now to buy a 7 thats already styled the way I want it, and (hopefully) in better condition. You know what I mean?

But so you all know, I AM taking into account everything you are all telling me. You are all much wiser than I am, and I'm not ignoring what you're all saying. I don't know if I'm buying this 7 yet. I haven't decided. My window of opportunity is still open, so I still have time to weigh all the variables.

PistonSmash

iTrader: (7)

Here's an update that I think those who are trying to help me will need to read. I've been in contact with the Dealer through email since I cannot actually go there to see the car. I've been asking several questions about the quality and condition of the car. I have to say, they are being surprisingly honest and open about it, for a dealer. They have told me the following: "The sun roof only opens about an inch, not sure what's stopping it because the motor is making noise still, will have to get that looked at. The antenna looks like it has been broken off, the AC works fine, the idle seems fine. The wipers only work on setting 1.
We do have a warranty company that will warranty it, but we own it for around $2,500 so I'm not sure if we'd be able to go low enough for you."

The problems they stated don't seem to be indicative of larger electrical problems in my opinion. My 7 has all these exact same problems with the sunroof (not a big deal) and the wipers. I'm sure the wipers problem has to be the solenoid. I'm also don't really care about the antenna.

As for the bottom portion of that quote, what it seems to me that they are saying, is that they might be willing to sell it for $2500. Is that what you all see in that statement too?

Plus, are their any other questions you think I could ask? They literally have no idea what they are selling though. They didn't even know how to tell if it was a rotary. I don't know how much help they would be to answer complicated questions. I'm thinking about telling them I want them to do a compression check. Think I should?

PistonSmash

iTrader: (7)

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

Compression check is always a good idea.

The wiper switch failure is due to a bad relay or relays, not a solenoid. Since this is a GXL, it should have a rear wiper, thus two relays must be replaced if both wipers are not working right. While you're in there, you really should replace both anyway as a preventive measure. If you search, you'll find some tutorials on how to purchase the proper relays and rebuild your own switch. Or contact a forum member who rebuilds the switches and send yours out. I believe Pele rebuilds these now.

Not sure if Mazda still sells the antenna mast or not. If they do, you must remove the rear spoiler so you can remove the metal collar on top of the antenna opening to get out the remains of the old broken mast and to insert the new one. Removing the spoiler is a bit of a pain since it is held in place with a combination of nuts and bolts, screws, and weird proprietary Mazda snap connectors in the rear corners. These snap connectors almost always break off when you attempt to remove them, and they're pretty hard to reach from inside the hatch area. Again, you'll want to check with Malloy Mazda or the dealership of your choice to see if these are still available. Or you could probably put some kind of universal antenna on, but I like keeping things original where possible.

Sometimes the sluggish sunroof is just a matter of dried and dirty lubricant. You can try to "help" it open by giving it a slight push. If you can get it to open, you can carefully clean as much of the old lubricant off the tracks as you can see. I understand that sometimes the cable that opens the sunroof gets jammed inside a copper or brass tube due to corrosion. If this is happening, you have to remove the headliner inside and lower the sunroof track from inside the car, open things up, clean away the corrosion, re-lubricate, and reinstall. If you search, there are tutorials on this procedure too.

None of these items is at all unusual. I would expect all these defects on any FC that has not been meticulously cared for.

I don't understand why the dealer is telling you he has $2500 in the car, aside from inviting you to offer an amount just above that figure to buy it.