deadRX7Conv

No reply from Evans concerning the MSDS. So, why are they ignoring me. If it is so revolutionary, then they will have patents and need not worry about someone copying their formula. Or, are they afraid that there is nothing special about it.

BTW, the car that is running 100% sierra is running perfectly. It even lost a fan without any engine damage. Sierratech's answer was very generic. How are they suppose to know where area of the country or what kind of protection that I need? They were just responding with the instant 50:50 to prevent bogus lawsuits.

Electrolytic corrosion occurs when the additive package wears out. This is only common in vehicles that do not have regular maintenance. Do not blame the water!

judy

Mazda Technical Service Bulletin (EOO194 Oct.94) titled "Coolant -Propylene Glycol Based not recomended.
Does anyone know what the bulletin reads?

banzaitoyota

Just did a little home-brewed experiment. Prestone LOW-TOX, similiar to Sierra, boiled at 315 degrees F, with a LOT of water vapor coming off. The whole point of NPG+ is to get rid of the water in the system.

deadRX7Conv

All it stated is that they believed that it might cause overheating. I don't have access to alldata anymore. I will next month. I should've copied all the TSP's but most were bull$hit, anyway. Don't worry about this TSP. It didn't seem to have any facts with it--just a general warning. PG doesn't have a high enough specific heat. It doesn't absorb heat as quickly as EG. That is why I don't believe the evans comments in the thread that banzai listed. How could something absorb more heat if its SH is less than water and less than a 50:50 mix?
It isn't!

banzaitoyota

Here is a pic of the residue left in the pan after <5 minutes of boiling at 315-318 Degrees F

banzaitoyota

Here is a pic of Prestone Low Tox boiling at 316 Degress F. Notice the large amount of water vapor boiling off.

banzaitoyota

While NPG+ does not have the specific heat capacity of a 50/50 mix of EG.
NPG+ = .66 Btu/lb/Degree F
50:50 EG = .81 Btu/lb/Degree F

NPG+ does have a higher heat of vaporization 12,000 cal/mole vs 9,800 Cal/mole

And it has a lower Vapor pressure 6mm Hg vs 360 mm hg

And it has a lower surface tension 44 dyn/cm vs. 56 dyne/cm.

This means the NPG+ "boils" easier and any vapor bubbles formed during nucleate boiling are easier to condense in the radiator. The key is the ability to get the heat transferred from the cooling passage walls and to the radiator to be removed.

deadRX7Conv

I am glad that it isn't a gas stove. That stuff is flammable. Whats your wife's opinion on allowing you to cook?
And, while you're at it, boil some NPG and NPG+. Make sure you use the same stove settings and same coolant levels as a starting point.

If my coolant every reached an average temperature of over 300 degrees, someone is going to make ~$3000 on a rebuild. I've never seen over 200.
Regardless of whichever coolant used, if the average coolant temperature reaches 300 degrees, then some serious engine damage will occur.

Another question I have is 'why is everyone worried about the ~15psi of radiator pressure?'. We have seals on the A/C that easily survive at 150psi. We have various oil seals/orings that don't even squeak at 70psi. The number one cause of coolant seal damage is because of the poorly engineered housings. Aluminum/iron expand and contract at different rates. 14psi of coolant pressure shouldn't be an issue.

I think that hayes understands this. Makes me wonder why Mazda can't make a longer lasting coolant seal.
http://www.hayesrotary.com/page2.htm

banzaitoyota

You are missing te whole point:

THE METAL ON THE COOLANT PASSAGE WALLS ON THE COOLANT SIDE EASILY EXCEED 300 DEGRESS ON THE WALL. YOU WILL HAVE LOCALIZED TEMPERATURES EXCEEDING CRITICAL HEAT FLUX. THESE TEMPERATURES EXCEED THE CAPACITY OFN THE 50/50 EG/H2O MIX.

deadRX7Conv

Geez, I'm not deaf. I get the point. Metal also conducts heat throughout the engine. At what average coolant temp does the localized temp cause a problem? Noone has a problem when the car is cold/warm and the engine is running--only when the car is overheating and the cooling system is taxed beyond its limit or is failing.
I understand the localized temp. That is why I use the words average temp. I never worry about localized temp. My coolant is moving very well and is being cooled by the radiator. Now, if the waterpump/fan/radiator quit, or any other part in my engine(including the oil system which is resposible for 25-30% cooling) died, then I would worry about localized temps. But, before the gauge climbed to death zone, I would've already called AAA for a tow and went parts shopping. Everyone seems to wait for the engine to self-destruct and then bitch and cry. Of the 100's of cars that I have worked on in the last 15 years, owner negligence is the NUMBER 1 cause of vehicle failure. Vehicle manufacturer cost cutting(FD cooling system for example) is number 2.

So, where's the boiling NPGs? Prove me wrong. Show me the pictures of it boiling/vaporizing with the temp gauge hooked up. You can shut me up instantly and I would have no choice but to either convert or stop complaining about the crazy price. Or, get me a copy of the MSDS. I don't have the money to waste in order to get the chemicals/%'s used or to have a thorough analysis done.

banzaitoyota

I'll do the test later this week when the wife is out. She almost shot me this morning...

I have also requested the MSDS from Evans, they have to send it to me I have alot of their stuff in my shop

And yes, owner negligence is a major factor in vehicle problems.
I am looking for the Evans to be allow me to further push the envelope with timing and mixtures for that extra "edge". My engine builder is aware of what I am doing.

HAILERS

Tech Bulletin E999194 says:
Mazda does not recommend propylene glycol coolants. Available information indicates the following characteristics regarding propylene glycol coolants:* Provides less heat transfer
* May not provide adequate corrosion protection (to meet Mazda specifications)
* Freezing temperature is 10 - 20% higher than ethylene glycol based coolants


Mazda recommends ethylene glycol and water mixture.