Engine project to get 200rwhp
08-29-04, 04:30 PM
#1
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Engine project to get 200rwhp
In october my dad is brining my my original rotary engine that was blown when i purchased the car. I'm planning on rebuilding it for some kind of forced induction (no i'm not going to buy a T2 engine so don't even bother commenting on that). I've read Aaron's site several times and other information on forced induction on the 6 port and believe that i can do it with reasonable safety. I'm not shooting for large numbers, i just want 200hp at the wheels. Also, I need to try to keep this under smog limits because of where i live. It'll have a cat to pass, but i'll probably remove it and put a pre-silencer in.
Here's the list i'm thinking of.
Rotary Aviation rebuilt kit (because they said their apex seals are "indestructible")
Street port
SAFC-II (already have this)
Stock ECU (convertible ECU)
550 or 720cc injectors (or both)
T2 ported intake to match the 6port.
I haven't decided if i want to go turbo or supercharge. What do you guys think would be the easiest to get the 200hp range?
I don't think i'm asking for a lot from this setup, is there anything else i should add to get to 200rwhp?
Here's the list i'm thinking of.
Rotary Aviation rebuilt kit (because they said their apex seals are "indestructible")
Street port
SAFC-II (already have this)
Stock ECU (convertible ECU)
550 or 720cc injectors (or both)
T2 ported intake to match the 6port.
I haven't decided if i want to go turbo or supercharge. What do you guys think would be the easiest to get the 200hp range?
I don't think i'm asking for a lot from this setup, is there anything else i should add to get to 200rwhp?
08-29-04, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 1Revvin7
Go standalone..........
And besides, aaron didn't
08-29-04, 09:14 PM
#6
Originally Posted by Parastie
I don't think i need to use standalone because i'm not shooting for extremely large HP numbers. Also, the convertible ECU is suppose to be able to handle turbo information.
And besides, aaron didn't
And besides, aaron didn't
Tuning is the key to a high compression turbo motor.
08-29-04, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 1Revvin7
Didn't he blow the motor?
Tuning is the key to a high compression turbo motor.
Tuning is the key to a high compression turbo motor.
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08-29-04, 11:42 PM
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Displacement > Boost
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I'd turbo it, it's cheaper and everyone respects turbo. The import crowd isn't into blowers, that's for sure.
I wouldn't use an NA ecu with boost, maybe a TII ecu but not the NA one. The airflow meter will probably get maxed two-thirds up the rpm range. U could rig it with the airflow meter after the turbo and it might not max out, but u'd need to dial in quite a bit more fuel all over the rpm range on the safcII. ur injector choice sounds correct for 200 at the wheels though.
The TII ecu will retard timing under boost, and u want that, unless u lock ur timing at a boost retard setting which will make the car dog slow when not in boost . . and u don't want that because u'll have a bit of turbo lag with a full cat exhaust.
I wouldn't use an NA ecu with boost, maybe a TII ecu but not the NA one. The airflow meter will probably get maxed two-thirds up the rpm range. U could rig it with the airflow meter after the turbo and it might not max out, but u'd need to dial in quite a bit more fuel all over the rpm range on the safcII. ur injector choice sounds correct for 200 at the wheels though.
The TII ecu will retard timing under boost, and u want that, unless u lock ur timing at a boost retard setting which will make the car dog slow when not in boost . . and u don't want that because u'll have a bit of turbo lag with a full cat exhaust.
08-30-04, 12:03 AM
#12
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Originally Posted by Parastie
I don't think i need to use standalone because i'm not shooting for extremely large HP numbers. Also, the convertible ECU is suppose to be able to handle turbo information.
And besides, aaron didn't
And besides, aaron didn't
The stock ECU will be useless to hit that power level. Its fine for up to a 50 HP boost, but not really much more than that.
Don't waste your time with a piggy back. At that power level a stand alone is a much smarter choice.
08-30-04, 12:30 AM
#13
A full NA build with complimenting mods, a large streetport and a 50 wet shot of spray will get you well over 200rw. You can get stock turbo II power levels from a modded NA with no power adders. A local guy with one of my NA rebuild/ports and several mods commented that his car wasn't much slower than his friend's s5 t2 with RB exhaust (rb exhaust = 50hp gain over stock).
08-30-04, 11:53 AM
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Hey kevin, is the ECU from the S5 verts good for turbos? Your website says it is but a lot of people say it's not.
I'll get a T2 ECU if it's necessary.
I'll get a T2 ECU if it's necessary.
08-30-04, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Icemark
Aaron was not trying to hit 250+ FWHP.
The stock ECU will be useless to hit that power level. Its fine for up to a 50 HP boost, but not really much more than that.
Don't waste your time with a piggy back. At that power level a stand alone is a much smarter choice.
The stock ECU will be useless to hit that power level. Its fine for up to a 50 HP boost, but not really much more than that.
Don't waste your time with a piggy back. At that power level a stand alone is a much smarter choice.
08-30-04, 01:08 PM
#16
Engine, Not Motor
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Originally Posted by 1Revvin7
Didn't he blow the motor?
Tuning is the key to a high compression turbo motor.
)
08-30-04, 01:54 PM
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08-30-04, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
NA ECU is fine for those power levels, and even above. I was running 12 PSI at some points (though I can't recommend this, especially on the 550CC injectors I was using )
)Aaron, do you know how much HP you were pushing? (or a rough guess)
08-30-04, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SonicRaT
I'd say at around 10-12psi we're anywhere from 240-260. Possibly more.
08-30-04, 10:24 PM
#21
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Interesting . . it will be interesting to see how a certain lylholm fed high comp extend ported six port block responds to 10 psi and low intake temps . . belt loss vs. impeller back pressure, the ultimate debate! I've estimated 250 rwhp but an engineer I know thinks I'm nuts.
08-30-04, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 88IntegraLS
Interesting . . it will be interesting to see how a certain lylholm fed high comp extend ported six port block responds to 10 psi and low intake temps . . belt loss vs. impeller back pressure, the ultimate debate! I've estimated 250 rwhp but an engineer I know thinks I'm nuts.
Of course an SC does have advantages, imagine the increased low end torque! You wouldn't have to rev extremely high to get a good launch (i think) people wouldn't know what to expect with a low revving rotary with power!!
I really just want something that's good for autocrossing (something i'd like to get into) instead of drag. What do you guys think would be best for autocross?
08-30-04, 10:49 PM
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why does everyone have to shout out "standalone" before even thinking for a moment about the goals of the respective project?
you will be fine with the SAFCII, and also you will want to get fuel system upgrades. a TII pump is fine, as with slight larger injectors...but you do realize that once you do hit 200hp, you will want more, right?
...that's one reason to get a standalone i guess...
as for turbo vs supercharger, you can easily get 200hp out of either. i'd have to say that turbo charging is a more straight forward route. supercharging may appear simple by concept, but i think there may be more involved for any significant hp gains...if you think about it, if you are needing an intercooler and custom piping for the blower, why not use half the money on turbo charging it?
that said, if you could get a supercharger working PERFECTLY with a nice, reliable IC setup, i would much rather that than a spinning turbine that uses hot exhaust gases to give you power...only after it stops lagging, mind you
you will be fine with the SAFCII, and also you will want to get fuel system upgrades. a TII pump is fine, as with slight larger injectors...but you do realize that once you do hit 200hp, you will want more, right?
...that's one reason to get a standalone i guess...
as for turbo vs supercharger, you can easily get 200hp out of either. i'd have to say that turbo charging is a more straight forward route. supercharging may appear simple by concept, but i think there may be more involved for any significant hp gains...if you think about it, if you are needing an intercooler and custom piping for the blower, why not use half the money on turbo charging it?
that said, if you could get a supercharger working PERFECTLY with a nice, reliable IC setup, i would much rather that than a spinning turbine that uses hot exhaust gases to give you power...only after it stops lagging, mind you
08-30-04, 11:24 PM
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[QUOTE=Icemark]Aaron was not trying to hit 250+ FWHP.
[QUOTE]
Mark that's flywheel hp numbers right? For the longest time i was thinking you did a typo (for RWHP) but that's not like you. just for clarification.
Matt
[QUOTE]
Mark that's flywheel hp numbers right? For the longest time i was thinking you did a typo (for RWHP) but that's not like you. just for clarification.
Matt
09-02-04, 01:25 AM
#25
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Okay, i've decided to go Turbo because i think it'll be cheaper.
What i need now is information. Anyone have a link on Turbo charging a car? Think like pressure, waste gates, blow off valves; just general information. I know some, but i've never owned a turbo car before and i want to make sure i do it right. Any links would be great!
What i need now is information. Anyone have a link on Turbo charging a car? Think like pressure, waste gates, blow off valves; just general information. I know some, but i've never owned a turbo car before and i want to make sure i do it right. Any links would be great!