Its just one thing after another with this car...

when I turn the key there is a clicking sound like the starter solenoid is moving, but the engine wont move. The best part is, that if I keep trying, I can sometimes get the car to start. WTF??

The only thing I can think of is a bad relay. so I replaced the starter relay, but nothing happened, same problem!

how should I go about trouble shooting this? could it be something other than a relay?

Also, I just replaced the alternator because I thought mine was dying, but now the new one is dead! I think my car wants to die... Please help it live!

 

Bad brushes in the starter, either rebuild it or get a new starter.

 

No, it can't be the starter either, because I had the problem before I got a new one from Napa, and nothing really changed after I replaced it.

I was listening under the hood and I can hear the relays clicking. The one that makes the most noise is this one


somebody is selling one from an s4 NA. would it be the same as an s4 Turbo?

 

Replace the starter or if recently, you have hit a bumb and the connection to the actual starter is loose. Battery connections are a handy check.
Sounds like your problem should just be replace the starter, quick bolt on and off.

 

What do your terminals look like?

 

starter was just replaced guys. th problem existed before it was replaced, and it still exists after the new one was installed. Battery is relatively new, terminals were just cleaned (by me) yesterday

 

what is the voltage of the battery?

What does the dash do when you try an start the car?

Sounds like a dead battery too me

 

I was having the same trouble a little while ago. it was the main circuit. check for erosion or bad grounding.

 

The battery has juice left because everything lights up when i put the key in.

I know that the alt is dead because I had my friend jump my car (because I thought maybe the battery didnt have the juice as well) and that didnt help. It still took me about 10 tries to start the car, and it would die if we removed the jumper cables. It wouldnt die right away though, so the battery was getting charged only by the other car, and the alt was doing nothing.

Its the inconsistency of the problem that makes me crazy. No matter what I do the car will keep starting but its only on the 10th or 20th turn of the key.

daufutsai: by main circuit, do you mean the main relay? The square relay thats next to the brake booster?

 

About the picture and the red circle around the Solenoid Resitor package. Yes, whether n/a or turbo it will work. Same animal. Meant for early series four such as anything earlier than 87 1/2.

About the starter.........since you installed a NEW starter and KNOW that your battery cables are perfect, I suggest the problem is in the circuit from the ignition switch to the starter solenoids small wire.

Remove the three 10mm nuts that hold the TRAIL COIL assy in place and just lift the coil assy to the side. NO wires need to be removed to do that.

Look for a bright BLUE connector on the end of an electrical plug. Remove that blue connector and set it to the side.

Get a piece of electrical wire long enough to reach from the batt positive post to where that blue connector was. Do not attach to the batt terminal yet.

Put one bare end of the new wire into the connector where there is a black/white wire. Just cram it in there where it will stay.

Transmission out of gear.
Key OFF. or out of the switch.

Now touch the OTHER end of your new wire to the battery positive terminal briefly. The starter will turn over. Do that several times. I'm betting each and every time the starter turns over when you do that. That, to me, proves the circuit b/t the ignition switch and the starter solenoid is not adequate.

Let us know how that worked out. Takes maybe thirty minutes from the time you get out of your chair to get it done. So thirty minutes from now you should know what the problem is and not send endless hrs wondering and never knowing.

 

This happend to my friends 1987 GXL the starter would click click click then finally crank. At first we suspectd the starter sol. relay but measuring voltages at the starter says there was not a full 12 volts getting to the ign. term of the sol. to pull it in fully. but just enough to give the click like it was pulling in. measure the voltage from the single plug on wire which connects to the ign. switch also makes a loop through the clutch switch. any way its the small gauge wire that connects to the starter sol. with the key in start it should read equal to the battery voltage. if not then check the clutch switch then finally to the ign. switch. The ign. switch was our problem. a bad connection where it pluged to the ign switch under the dash. If i remember the voltage we measured at trhe sol. ign term was 10 or so when it was in failure mode. when fixed it was 12 while cranking.

 

Doesn't mean there is enough juice in it to start the car.

Lets make it simple, what voltage shows on your digital Multi-Meter when you try and crank the car?

And if you don't have a digital multi-meter, you shouldn't be working on the electrical of the car. A multi-meter is less than $30

 

HAILERS: I tried your test and every time I touched the wire to the battery the starter would click like it wanted to start the car. I assume that this means part of my ignition system is dead.

I think the reason the starter didnt actually turn over was because the charge on the battery wasnt very good. I'll go under the car tomorrow and make sure that all the connections are solid on the starter.

now that I know, should I start checking voltages on parts like what skatelement said?

Icemark: Sorry I didnt refresh in a while and I didnt notice your post until just now. I have a multimeter, let me go check the voltage on the battery.

 

ok, I just checked the voltage at the battery terminals and something is very wrong.

at first when I hooked up the battery it read about 11.4v then I cranked it (and I couldn't see it when I cranked it the first time) but right after that the voltage dropped to about 9.5v and started to go up as I watched. It got to about 11v before I tried again with longer wires so I could see while I cranked the car. This time the voltage dropped to about 3v when I cranked it, and only bounced back to 4-5v when I stopped. I disconnected the battery after that and took another reading which started at about 8 and slowly climbed.

basically what happens is the voltage drops to about nothing when I crank the car, then slowly recovers. Does this mean I have a short somewhere?

 

~12.7 volts is what a fully charged battery should have across it with negligable load. if you are under 12 volts the battery is nearly dead.

 

I'm going to try using the battery out of my mom's car to see if I can get the car to start that way. You're right, no matter how much I charge that battery I think its pretty much dead.

 

Bad ignition switch ftw. I can guarantee thats the problem.

 

Check the voltage at the starter. A corroded ground wire to the starter is most likely to blame. It is easy to fix, easy to find but always overlooked.

These cars are 20+ years old. I have seen ground wires of that age with corrosion halfway through the cable. And the cables are 5ft long.

Put + on the tester to the + on the starter. Put the negative to the chassis of the starter. Then move the ground to the chassis of the car (transmission mount bolt works well). If there is a difference you have a bad ground.

 

Have You cleaned the terminals and connections at the Starter?Alternator?Block?/Fuse Block?..Try this..If you have a set of booster cables..use ONE cable..put the Cable from the negative to the Block of the car..try starting it.if is Starts up,you have a Bad Ground.NOW,if you attach the cable from the Positive Terminal to the Positive,where it attaches at the Starter,and it Starts then you can say that you have a Bad Positive cable..To me,It sounds like a bad Connection somewhere.OH..Please Use Caution when doing the Positive Cable As you have to Get under the car and Have your Buddy try to start the car.Oh..just Posting..I see that the Guy ahead of me uses a Meter..that is better than using the booster cables(less Dangerous!)

 

I'm having the same problem with my 86. I'll just keep trying with all your advices. Thanks.

 

Where is the main circuit located at?

 

So i did what you said. Took my booster and put + of booster to batt. of car, Then took - wire from booster and put it to the block of the car. Low and behold she started right up. Now my ???? to you or anyone that can help. Is All i have to do is ground the car out better. By replacing my old ground wire or adding more like my friend did to his honda.

 

Well, I fixed part of my problem. It turns out that the main ground from the starter is located right below the fuse box, and when I went to check it, the bolt holding it on was so rusted it broke in half. When I replaced it, the car started up well enough, but it still clicks and starts about once every 10 turns of the key. I'm going to replace the ignition switch and see if that helps. But at least I know my alternator is still good. That bad ground was F**king up the whole charging system.

 

The ground cable from the battery has a splice in it that goes to the chassis just below the left strut tower (chassis gnd) then continues on to the long bolt on the starter (engine ground). It can attach to any of the bolts to the engine/transmisson and work fine, but the original end point was the long bolt that holds the starter on.

 

[QUOTE=Osirus9;7541508]HAILERS: I tried your test and every time I touched the wire to the battery the starter would click like it wanted to start the car. I assume that this means part of my ignition system is dead.

IF the battery had been fully charge and IF the connections on the battery terminals were on good and IF the power and the ground wires were on good at the starter, THEN I would say you have a starter solenoid problem or starter internal problem.

When you went and applied 12v straight off the battery to the black/white wire (goes to the starter solenoids small wire), the starter should start up right away each and every time. You bypass the igniton switch and starter interlock switch when you do this, so they are not in play and can't be the reason the starter did not turn over.

Next time under the car with it in neutral, pull the small wire off and set it to the side. Jumper b/t the small blade that wire was on over to the large wire on the solenoid. Starter should spin each time. If not, then there's a starter solenoid problem or internal starter problem.

When you do the jumper job I just described, you doing the same thing I described in my other post where you pull the blue plug and jumper 12v off the battery to the black/white wire. Under the car you just taking the 12v off the power wire on the starter (goes directly to the batt pos post) and jumpering it to the small blade on the starter solenoid. Starter should turn over each time unless the solenoid is bad or the starter bad itself. Like I said, this bypasses the ther componets in the start system so if the starter fails it can't be those other componets.