grinder

Hiya guys

just got me a 1991 vert and its got some strange issues

it was supposedly running about 6 weeks ago - but then cut out

i checked the car over and it was flooded , so done the unflooding procedure ( plugs out etc... )

this is what im experiencing :

1 - i have tried to start the car and it still wont run
2 - remove a plug and i can confirm a spark
3 - tried it again - still wont run
4 - looks flooded AGAIN
5 - still have 3 selanoids going mad
6 - noticed that the clock doesnt work on the dash
7 - radio wont work either
8 - windows work
9 - not checked the mirrors
10 - head rest speaker switch wont work either
11 - check about 10 of the internal fuses - only one dead was CIGAR - changed this - non of the above work
12 - head lights wont go up or down ( even on the maintenance switch )
13 - cruse lights up ok - cant check though !!
14 - not tried the wipers
15 - roof looks to work - it beeps when you move the switch
16 - if you remove the EGI fuse - there is no clicking noises

when you put the car onto to start ( all the dash lights ) i get 2 or 3 relays going MAD - just continous clicking and wont stop - if you crank the car - it wont start either but the relays stop - now if you take the key out and try this again - they relays go mad again - just contunous clicking

i have had the battery on charge for 3 days now - so i dont think its a flat battery

the car has 5K on a rebuild but not been run for a while ( apart from the 6 weeks ago ) - spoke to the previous owner - he never had this prob and he said that the radio was working fine - so no idea why thats stopeed ( and the clock ! )

its something to do with the EGI side of things ( i think ) as when you pull that fuse out - everything goes quiet in the engine bay

what gets me - is that it did run , but then he said it cut out and he flooded it trying to start it - i then put it on a trailor and took it to my house and this is the point im at now

the UK guys are helping out - but we are really struggling for a solution to this

the car is really nice and i would love to see it running again

one of the relays thats going mad is a round one on the front bar ( near head light ) - but i cant find out what it is , another one sounds like its behind the alternator and the other other - hummm cant find it - might be under the air filter box

its got a turbo timer fitted ( turned off at the mo ) and a cat 1 alarm

i cant see these being the prob - as it DID run 6 weeks back

any idea or a starting point would be idea

Stu

catchafox

You have an earthing problem, there isn't one connected and the power is jumping from one relay to another to find a earth ,I think there must be one not bolted down, could be any where, look around at areas the have been worked on (engine bay, ecu etc) hope this helps.

importsown

He means grounding btw not earthing. heh.

Im not too sure if thats the problem or not, but that would be a good place to start is the grounds on the vehicle. aaron has a good writeup on his site about repairing/cleaning the grounds. http://www.aaroncake.net

You may just have extremely bad ECU connections/solder joints. That is definately the cause of clock/logicon/radio not working anyways, and if its extreme it might be affecting the engine.

RETed

Is this a *TURBO* motor?

BTW, solenoids clicking is NORMAL.
I dunno why people are suggesting grounds.

Since it's a 1991 model, why not try and scan for error codes first?


-Ted

grinder

yeah its a turbo model

i know clicking is normal as i have a TII Coupe , but this is all the time to the extent of

1 - put key in and turn to start the car ( dash lights )
2 - hear the clicking
3 - get out have a nosey - still clicking
4 - go inside make a brew
5 - yeah still clikcing
6 - quick *** - yup still the same

LOL

i know they click - but not to this extent

i will check the gounds aswell - its really annoying as it was running 6 weeks ago - they previous owner reved it and it cut out - since this point it wont start

i can always add another earth to the battery - would this help - or do i need to check EVERY earth

i need to check for the codes aswell - just have to work out how now

Stu

RETed

One solenoid is definitely the BAC valve.
This is the main valve that handles idle control.
Since it's obviously the engine isn't hitting minimum RPM speed (duh, it's not running), the BAC valve is working furiously to try and idle the motor...for some stupid reason.

I have a mirror on the popular write-up for error code checking...
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/HOWTO/ERRORC...KI/kerror.html


-Ted

RETed

Okay, these two piqued my curiosity.
Can you explain to us U.S. folks what do they mean?
I assume one means smoke a cigarette?


-Ted

grinder

i have printed out a check sheet for the error code - so will try this tonight - the only thing that worries me - is that the relays will still be clicking - so will that cause more error codes

its a real strange one this - and no one in the UK has heard of it before - and i dont want to damage anything ( obvioulsy )

and the next bit

3 - get out and have a nosey .... that means get out of the car and have a look
4 - quick *** - yeah thats a cigarette ( i suppose in your lingo - that sounds really bad ! LOL )

will try the codes tonight - i hope its something simple ( which i doubt ! )

keep the idea's rolling in - im desperate to get this thing going

Stu

RETed

Nah, clicking solenoids should not trigger an error code for that component.
The solenoid has to be disconnected or shorted to trigger an error code.

The error code check is free, so give that a try first.

Thanx for the UK lingo!


-Ted

grinder

gonna check the codes in the next hour or so ..

this could be interesting ... i just want it to work

Stu

grinder

right then - no error codes are showing up - on the other hand i have NO idea where the check light is

i had no different idiot lights with the wire in the check plug or not - so not sure if that means anything

here is a bit of an update though :


1 - tried to pull the error codes from the car - there is none - so thats a downer
2 - took the IC off to see if we had dislodged anything - nope
3 - got a helper round - always helps
4 - the clicking is in 2 places - one near the alternator ( this could be in the injectors going mad )
5 - the other is the ROUND relay on the front bar - but NO idea what this is
6 - the EGI relay ( up by the leading coils ) - this seems OK - clicks once when you turn the car on and clicks once when you turn it off
7 - the fuel pump seems to be running when the clicking is happening - so this is prob causing the flooding probs - loads of juice
8 - still cant get the radio to work

right chaps - need some help with this one - im stuck well and truely

Stu

kidouninja

get a DVOM and go at it

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

Who calls it a DVOM?

grinder

whats a DVOM ?????????????????

RETed

DVOM = Digitial Volt Ohm Meter?
Also known as a DMM or Digital Multi Meter...

Okay, when you get no codes, do you mean it spits out the initial 3-second light-on and then turns off?
Or you get no light-on at all?


-Ted

grinder

rRETed - i get no check light at all - but then on the other hand - i dont know where it is to start with

all the dash lights come on - but nothing goes out

so checked my TII and its the same - no lights come on or off ( not checked the TII coupe with the lead connected though )

here is another updaye though :

spent another 4 hrs just now in it

1 - still got the stupid clicking
2 - its defo the round relay at the front - removed this and its all still clicking
3 - removed the air box
4 - another relay under there is clicking - so removed that
5 - got under the dash - removed the relay under there - still all clicking
6 - sounds like every click is firing the injectors - so this is causing the flooding no doubt
7 - you can smell the fuel from miles away
8 - put it all back together - still all clicking
9 - remove the EGI fuse - clicking stops
10 - put that back in - remove the engine fuse - clicking stop

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ... how the hell can i trace this ????

11 - head lights wont go up or down either - this is a seperate issue though ( although still annoying )

next plan - gallon of petrol and a match

giving up now - spent tooo long and getting no where

Stu

RETed

Okay, let's start back with the basics.
The CHECK ENGINE light is not in the instrument cluster.
It's in the warning cluster in the middle of the dash on top.
KEY ON the ignition and check to see that ALL the lights go on.
If any are out, the bulb (or electrical circuit) is bad.
This KEY ON self-test is to check to see if the bulbs are okay.

After listening to what you're posting, it really sounds like the spark plugs are fouled.
In extreme fouling, the spark plugs will stop sparking!
If possible, prevent the fuel pump from priming - this will prevent the fuel injectors from shooting fuel into the engine.
Next, remove all the spark plugs but leave the spark plug wires all plugged in.
Place the threads of the spark plugs on a knon ground spot - I use the studs on the front strut tower for convenience.
Have a friend crank the engine over...
Do you see sparks in the spark plug tip???
I bet there is no spark or very weak spark...


-Ted

grinder

right - just found out that UK/JAP cars dont have a check light - so thats out the window

done the plug check and its fine - new blue spark

im swaying towards the turbo timer bing faulty and it turning the car on and off loads of time

prob is - there is about 500 wires in there

Stu

RETed

Yack, that's screwed.

You have fuel.
You have spark.
So maybe ignition timing is off?

Does it spark consistent?


-Ted

grinder

yeah sparks just fine - its just getting 20 times asmuch fuel as it needs to

really need to get the turbo timer out - just no idea how

still an odd problem though !! LOL

RETed

Can you check fuel pressure?


-Ted

grinder

fuel pressure seems ok - only prob is that its flooded that often - i now have it in the sump

RETed

Yeah, it ends up in the oil pan.


-Ted

grinder

im still no closer

a well known UK tuner has suggested removing the turbo timer - had a look before - and WOW how many wires .. not a cat in hells chance of that

splatterbass

check CAS conector?