I went to smog my car and it passed everything buy the idle speed test and the EGR Valve vacuume test. Well I took out the EGR valve and tested it like Chiltons says and its fine. When I hooked it back up and forced current to it like in the smog test, the solenoid will open and has vacuume. HOWEVER when the regular power connector is hooked up it won't open. I hooked up a volt meter to the power connector and am only getting 0.4v @3-4k RPM's when it should try to open and be @ 12v. I think it failed cause the car won't activate the EGR on it's own...

Help Anyone?

Here is my old thread but it's outdated.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...89#post9669189

 

I am also trying to get the idle down and I have gone through all the steps about adjusting the throttle screw until you get a voltage reading on one side only. (I can hear the solenoid next to the EGR turning on and off when playing with the throttle linkage.) However nothing I do can get the damn idle down from like 1400-1500RPM's!

 

Go to a different smog test station. I've never had a tech test the EGR valve. None of them have even known where to look for it on the engine. The system is really very simple. The ECU switches power on/off to the solenoid, which determines whether or not vacuum is applied to the diaphragm. If you bench tested it, and it held vacuum, the tech is an idiot.

For your idle speed issue, it sounds like you either have a plugged coolant passage on your thermowax, or you just need to adjust the throttle stop.

 

My first question is, why the hell was the tech testing your car at idle?

There isn't any reason to NOT test it on the dyno, since the numbers would probably come out better (if you dont have a dead cat that is.)

Every now and then the Emissions analyzer asks us to test for EGR functionality...but usually only during the TSI (two speed idle) test.

During an ASM, (The 2 speed Dyno test...15mph, and 25mph) The engine would be under load, there would be vacuum, but more importantly more volume of air, and a power signal.

Do you know why he did the Idle speed test instead of the Dyno version?

I would take it to a different station. I also agree that the prior tech is stupid. Try the throttle stop on top of the dynamic chamber (Throttle body), and see if that helps at all with the idle.

I am a liscensed Smog tech...though currently out of work due to economy.

 

Hellllloooooooo. You should see batt voltage when the solenoid is NOT energized and less than two volts when it is energized. See FSM Control Unit.

In the driveway I would think you'd only see batt voltage and nothing less than that myself. Not that the EGR will do squat for the emissions numbers anyway.

All those solenoids on the vacuum rack are that way. Like on the BLUE one you should see less than two volts proving it is energized at idle as it should be. The rest at idle should be batt voltage on a series four non turbo.

I kinda doubt the EGR will ever go to less than two volts in the driveway even though you rev the engine up and down and sideways. I'm pretty sure you have to DRIVE the car for the EGR to be energized.

ALLLLL those solenoids on the rack have batt voltage (black/white wire on the plug) on them any time the key is put to ON or better. What drives the voltage down is when the ECU puts a gnd on the wire that is NOT black/white on the small elect plug of the solenoid. See book called FSM/Control Unit.

For it to energize the rpms have to be 1700-3600rpm...........coolant temp over 165*.......intake manifold vacuum below 25.9 in/hg. Frankly I think it has to be driven for it to work although I'm not 100% sure of that and don't care to go look to see.

 

you don't need to check the electrical portion of the EGR valve, no smog tech that i know of would know how to perform the test on a 7 anyways nor should they, since the damn cars never needed a POS EGR valve anyways. it is only there because some smog **** told Mazda it had to have one.

 

The function of the EGR is to kill NOX emissions. If it wasn't required for the 7 to meet Federal/California emissions standards it wouldn't be there. Check any other manufacturer of the same time period. Some have it, some don't. The valve wasn't what was mandated. The emissions were.

The EGR will do nothing at idle, Hailers is right about that. It needs to meet set conditions for it to work. The tech should have said the test was N/A.

Karack, please do your research before you spout about things, please. Smog technicians are REQUIRED to test the emissions equipment on the vehicle, and are subject to FEDERAL offense if they falsify the smog. That includes checking an EGR valve's existence that YOU don't agree with.

Granted, they should just apply vacuum, check to see that the engine stumbles, and move on.

As a smog tech, I think that if the car passes the emissions, it should be considered correct anyway...if it complies to the standards with a standalone, single turbo, new downpipe, no cat, aluminum sheet metal intake, and 1600cc injectors, Why should it fail, just because it hasnt been approved by the California Air Resource Board?

But my opinion doesn't matter that much unfortunately.

 

bullshit, they were required because piston engines needed them.

you realize i build these cars and have them smogged everyday? they pass fine even without functional EGR valves. in fact many years NEVER had an EGR valve and are well under limit.

in most areas a simple vacuum test of the EGR function is all that is necessary. i had no idea that there is an electrical functionality test, since even our enhanced smog station does not test it so i smell some BS on your part.

 

I will go scan my smog results and post them for you all to look at, I have to hook up my scanner. Like I said before, it passed with flying colors last year and now it SUPPOSEDLY failed cause he couldn't read vacuume on the EGR. Now he DID go drive it around the block with some kind of gauge connected. (The guage was sticking through the hood so he could see it through the window.)

When you force current to the EGR like the Cali smog book says to do, it does not make the car act like it's going to stall. (I guess also mentioned in that Cali smog Book) Could that be because the idle is too high? I did everything listed in Chiltons about adjusting the throttle position until you have only one light on, I can hear the solenoid next to the EGR open/closing. Idle still won't go lower than like 1100 at best, however I can physically turn the throttle linkage backwards and hear the idle drop down to normal levels.

Could you please tell me a little more about the throttle stop you mentioned before? Also should I be looking at my ECU as a possible cause? I ask because some *** wired a new Molex connector to the wiring harness that plugs into the ECU and moved it to below the Steering column on the drivers side. What pisses me off though is that he left the original connector just hanging there, still connected to the harness.

Thanks for all the posts and help!!

 

Here are my smog results, if the thumbnails don't link to the full size image correctly please let me know.



My real problem here is $$$! Most shops around here won't even work on my car and the ones that will want a minimum of $99 for one hours labor + Fix it costs, then another $65 for a SECOND smog test. No shops seems to believe me when I say that the EGR valve IS NOT THE PROBLEM! PLUS the red 30-day stickers that used to be free are now $50 EACH!!! I said **** that I might as well just take my chances with a smog test and see what happens.

 

so i see they are forcing enhanced areas to be even more strict on the functionality tests. how moronic of a way to try to force more older cars off the road, considering what i said above.

 

Arnold IS the ******* smog ****, he has written SO many laws to force people to buy new cars or hybrids. The rolling 30 year smog exemption is gone, nothing past '75 will EVER be exempted. You can not put a motor in your car that was not a FACTORY option, so no 20b for me! He has also cut all the state agencies budget's (Which is me) so now my income has been cut by 40%!!! I HATE HIM! I could afford to fix my car if it weren't for him!

 

believe me i know, that's why i'm ignoring everyone's pleas to stay in cali. it can break off and sink for all i care, except for where my family still lives.. lol

anyways, i suspect you have some crap in the AWS passages which is why when it is fully warm it is still stuck at a high RPM. you can test it by going behind the throttle and push down on the fast idle cam manually, you will need a flat screwdriver to do so. it is below the hose off the back of the throttle body. as for the EGR issue, i really have not gone that in depth with the systems since the tests that are performed here are all simple functionality test with a vacuum supply right to the EGR, this test just tests to see if there is a vacuum source from the engine, which is only supplied at various times on a 7 and generally that time is not near idle on a smog test. the whole test they are performing is BS anyways since it still rules out the ECU and control system.

the state is pushing too hard on people who were already scraping by, but that is a whole nother thread of rants.

 

@ Karack

You are right there is should be no electrical test...though I never claimed there was. I have only ever done the vacuum test, and it shows functionality just as well. It does vary depending on the EGR system type though...backpressure, transducer...etc. For the 7, the vacuum test should be sufficient.

For all areas in California, all that is required is the EGR functionality test according to manufacturers specifications. (These procedures are listed in the Motors Emissions manual, or equivalent)

They may pass without them, but what has been done to the rest of the engine? They obviously AREN'T stock, which you already know changes everything.

@ OP:

The screw Im talking about is right on top of the intake manifold, right above the throttle body.

It is maybe 3/16" to 1/4" wide. Slotted for a straight screw driver. It moves the stop for the throttle blades, and shuts them down more, hence lowering the idle.

I changed the flywheel on my 7 from the factory 25lb one, to a 11lb one, and brought my idle from 1200 back to 750 (spec should be 750 +or- 50 I believe. Should be under your hood on one of the stickers.) with no other adjustments or issues.

Im still wondering why he performed a two speed idle test though. THAT doesnt make sense even now.

Your car is RWD, without traction control, it is capable of being tested on the dyno rollers...Do you live in what is considered a Basic Smog area? Looking at your VIR (that report) It doesnt seem like it.

From what he is saying, it sounds like he did not get a vacuum signal from the line going to the EGR valve. You might check that with a vacuum gauge yourself if you have one.

Also, on the emissions readings, I am wondering why you have an 02 reading of 4%...That could mean a vacuum leak, and the cause of your high idle. Normally 02 should read 0.0, or lower than 1.0.

I wish I still worked at a smog shop, I'd gladly take a look at it for you.

 

Actually, you could put a 20b in your car, legally, but you have to take it to a BAR referee center. And it has to fit to the T what the Eunos Cosmo has for emissions equipment. Its just a huge pain in the ***.

BTW...the exempt date is 1976 and older.

I may be a smog tech...but I dont really agree with the system...it was just another way to work as a mechanic for me.

 

Idle the car til fully hot. While idling, pull the vacuum line off the EGR solenoid. Vacuum should be there. See the attached jpg.

If vacuum is there, then when they jumper a gnd to the EGR solenoid it should be outputting the vacuum out the top hose on the solenoid to the EGR itself.

Seeing as how when you manually close the throttle linkage and the idle drops, that might indicate, to me at least, that the water thermowax/fast idle cam isn't working right and is holding the linkage open a touch. See manual for setting the water thermowax/fast idle cam. Not that easy on a non turbo car without removing the throttle body if I remember right.

On the other hand a fellow on this site had a high idle on his car and finally turned a screw back there near the water thermowax and the idle dropped. The fast idle screw probably. Gone.

IF you can get the idle below...well below 1000 rpm, then get a timing light and make sure the marks line up on the pulley with the fixed timing pin on the front cover. A idle over approx 1200rpm will make the ECU advance the timing all on its own and mess up a idle.

The BLUE and GREY solenoids clicking when setting the TPS is normal. Thats one of the things that the TPS does when rigged right. Its setting determines when the ECU puts a gnd on those two solenoids. BLUE should have a gnd when your at idle and the TPS is rigged right and the grey one should not have a gnd on it from the ECU.

EGR gets no gnd from the ECU unless your driving and the conditions are met for the ECU triggering a gnd to it.

Can't help with ECU wiring that's been tampered with.

I attached a jpg of a RX of mine whose EGR is not functional. The numbers are very low compared to what is required for the test. The only car I have that has much higher NOX is a six port non turbo that's turbo'd and runs on E-85. It had higher NOX (but passed) because it was running waaay too lean during the test . Yeah, I know high NOX isn't your problme, just a high idle and maybe a problem with the EGR solenoid or vacuum line to the EGR itself or combinaton of the two problems.

 

The perfect example of the EGR being useless is the fact that S5s don't even have them. It clearly wasn't doing anything, and apparently state/federal laws allowed it to go by the wayside. I just passed 9 months ago with the EGR not even hooked up, and NOx levels were still extremely low. If they can't understand that there's a solenoid switching vacuum on/off to the EGR, you need to go somewhere else. If you're in the San Diego area, PM me and I can recommend a good place to go.

And why the hell is the tech driving your car around the block? I live in an enhanced smog testing area & have to go to test only stations every 2 years, but every time the test is done on a dyno at 15/25 mph. That's the whole point of a dyno: no need to actually drive the car somewhere.

And check out this thread for your high idle issue: https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/idle-issue-i-think-i-made-mad-810097/. Like I said before, it's probably the thermowax plunger not extending/rotating the fast idle cam. This can be caused by clogged water passageways in the TB. If not this, the throttle stop screw may be completely off. Both of these are shown & discussed in the thread.

 

I did everything as far as testing the EGR EXACTLY like you said. Also I did this right after the smog test and it was working like it should. I don't think this shop even has a Dyno and from what I am hearing I may wind up in the end simply disputing the Charge on my mastercard and this shop can just loose their money.

I will try everything listed in this thread about the throttle issues, however it may take a couple days cause I'm SO burnt out dealing with my car. I'll still check the thread though if anyone wants to add something and I'll post my results of the idle/new smog test in a couple days.

Once again to everyone who posted and RX7Forum in general, if I didn't have this info I'd be getting ripped off by all the shady shops around here.

 

I did everything as far as testing the EGR EXACTLY like you said. Also I did this right after the smog test and it was working like it should. I don't think this shop even has a Dyno and from what I am hearing I may wind up in the end simply disputing the Charge on my mastercard and this shop can just loose their money.

I will try everything listed in this thread about the throttle issues, however it may take a couple days cause I am SO burnt out dealing with this crap. I'll still check the thread though if anyone wants to add something and I'll post my results of the idle/new smog test in a couple days.

Once again to everyone who posted and RX7Forum in general, if I didn't have this info I'd be getting ripped off by all the shady shops around here.

BTW Rotary Noob, I may have to go to LA soon anyways so I may not be opposed to just getting the test done while I'm down there. IS there any rules that say you have to have your smog check done in my county?

 

RE: Fast idle issue.

Check out FSM page 4A-56 (see sig for FSM, some links don't work though). The third picture from the top shows the thermowax that gives you fast idle. This third picture shows it oriented incorrectly (cam adjusting screw should be at the bottom). The picture below it (4th) shows it oriented correctly.

Warm up the car. Take a screwdriver (slotted) and vertically push down on the bracket that holds the screw. You essentially simulate the thermowax expanding and pushing on it. If the idle goes down when you do this, you need to adjust that screw.

If the above is messed, you are adjusting the TPS incorrectly, since the TB plates should close completely (well, there's a slight gap between the bore and plates, but unrelated to fast idle operation). GL!

RE: EGR - shouldn't it be basically a functional test? Find the vacuum line that goes to the EGR valve, apply vacuum, see if idle stumbles? FSM page 4A-37 is basically that, and this is Mazda.

edit: Eff that shop. Call Mastercard.

 

This is bull ****. My friend just recently went through whole smog class and they are only required to do visual check and smog dyno test. The only time they drive your car is only for the dyno part of the test. The idle speed test is mostly for AWD or 4WD cars since most smog places have 2 wheel drive dynos.

Also did you go to smog only or a smog and repair shop?
The only place that would go in depth testing would be a smog and repair shop.

Lesson learn don't let them drive your car around the block.


P.S. My friend went through whole smog class and learn about so many BS and laws for California, and said **** California and **** the smog license.


I just ROFLLED...

 

@ Op:

Nothing says you have to have the smog done in the city in which you live. If you felt like it, you could live in Sacramento, and get your car smogged in San Diego.

California is California in that respect.

I have a feeling that tech was an idiot...but I didnt bother to look up his EA number on the BAR website. I just wasnt feeling like spending the time.

You could see how long he has had his license though.

I leave Thursday for Utah, (since I am again out of work, and have a guaranteed job for the winter), but I will try to check back. If you have questions, feel free to PM me.

 

the 1 reason why that 30 year rolling window is..........because in 1975 they enacted catalytic converters STANDARD on all cars. they banned the 30 year window because they dont want those cars to have the cats removed. if they fail, they must be replaced.
basically...............they want their money. at the end of the day, some beauracrat needs to sit on his fat ***, make other people miserable, beat his wife and neglect his children, but at least he gets paid.
*******

oh, btw, look at that first piece of paper. see how it says 0mph, he did a TSI test on it, i DIDNT do an asm test. thats why, if you look at the third pic with the gas analysis, there isnt NOX listed. he did the wrong test, take it to another station, and report him if you want, he deserves it for being retarded. im a smog tech, and i wouldnt have failed the car based on the results. what a dipshit

Lloyd
p.s. VOTE REPUBLICAN next time if you dont like the laws

 

this is in fact incorrect. based on the fact that there is STILL basic and enhanced areas of california, you have to get the car smogged in an enhanced area if you live in an enhanced area, you cant take it to a basic, but visa versa you can....
california is so ******* wierd.
although i said you were wrong, in your example, you are right. seeing as both SD county and Sac county are both enhanced, this would be legal.

Lloyd

 

well, your friend is a ******* idiot. im getting 35$ an hour to do smog, so he just fucked himself for being too pig headed. i hate the bullshit laws and all that, but i LOVE getting paid to sit on my *** and get treated like a king. hell, my boss takes me to lunch once a week.
Anyways, the only place thats allowed to work on emissions devices have to be gold shield stations only. otherwise, all they can do is look, no official diag, no repair.
and besides, there is only 1 thing i hate about being a smog tech is, i cant drive my 7 on the streets. no emissions, i built it for drifting, if i get caught with that on the roads, there goes my license.

Lloyd

sorry for triple posting, i cant figure out how to multiquote multiple people.