jinx22630

I'm talking about DYNO tuning the car. Not just putting in some shitty all around generic program. I'm talking about turning the stock ECU into a full fledged Engine Managment System, Capable of being programmed for whatever mods that you have. It will come with its own FREE software. It will do the same thing as every other EMS out there. I dont mean to be a dick or anything, but please go to some of the links that have been posted previously, and check out what people have done to stock 8 bit Roms on other Japanese platforms. They've all but turned the stock ecu into a friggin supercomputer.
But, on the other hand, I do apreciate your input. Sorry if I'm coming off like a dick, but I have quite a bit of free time on my hands till I get my shoulder put back together via surgery, so I really have nothing better to do with my time. So I figured maybe I would get people involved with a project that everyone could benefit from.
Once again, I cannot express the fact more, that all info will be shared, and any and all software written for this project will be free. If you still have doubts about what can be done with shitty *** 8 bit roms, go check out www.zdyne.com and www.hondata.com
Please also check out my friends project at www.pgmfi.org - please note that these are Honda related sites, but work on exactly the same principal.

Hamza734

I don't want to discourage you...and I applaud your effort.

However, I'm telling you nowON'T WASTE YOUR TIME. I can tell you have a background in computer engineering/computer science. Only a CS/CE guy could reprogam the stock EFI. I know its been done... I had a very nice reprogrammed ECU in my car.

However, to TRULY tune an engine you need a proper engineering/automotive background. Very few people have this. These people tend to be:

A. Mechanical Engineers
B. Thermodynamicists
C. PROFESSIONAL, RACE engine builder

Unless you fall into one of these categories...don't bother reprogamming the system. You'll be expending an enormous amount of effort towards a small, if not NON-EXISTENT goal. Also, you should know that OEM manufacturers use BRAKE dyno's, not CHASSIS dyno's to tune. Unless you own a brake dyno, don't bother. They cannot be rented.

jinx22630

I fall into the C. Category. done it for six years. Porsche, BMW, Honda. Have free access to chassis and engine dyno.
I'm gonna let this thread die. Everyone who would like to be involved in this project, please redirect your attention to http://jinx.bloki.com/forum

theloudroom

Why are you giving him so much trouble? Even if he had NO IDEA how to set the fuel maps, etc this project would still be worthwhile.

If he writes software to manipulate the stock ECU, he can then tune the car himself, OR SOMEONE ELSE CAN DO IT.

First off, it's not "as simple as that". You're talking upwards of $1k for an EMS, that is NOT INSTALLED. He's talking about using the EMS that's free (comes with the car) and is already in there and working.
Second, the stock system works. It has all the capability needed to run an RX-7, otherwise I'd have a hard time driving my car around, wouldn't I?

Rpeck

It will never DIE!!

jinx22630

you guys ROCK!!

BTW, stock Rom images are now on the project forum, for your dissasembling pleasure. I will try to post some how to's a little later on. If anyone wants to write one before me, please feel free.

Hamza734

In that case, I say go for it! If you feel you have the knowledge for it, then do it. All RX7 owners will benefit from your work.

However, I still think programmable EMS is the way to go. The truth is, its cheap. I bought a Microtech, installed it myself, had it tuned by a pro, and the total cost was under $1000. Now my car runs smoother, consumes less fuel, is more reliable and is more powerful.

Of course, you can reprogram the stock ECU and get good gains. It's just that doing so will be difficult, will take a long time, and *probably* won't give you as good a result as a programmable setup will.

Rpeck

NZConvertible

That makes absolutely no difference. You had your MicroTech tuned on a chassis dyno didn't you? If you have control over the stock ECU in a similar manner to an aftermarket ECU (which is the goal here), then tuning will be done in exactly the same manner.

ForsakenRX7

Heres an idea: When I owned a first gen DSM we had all kinds electronic goodies. For one theres the palm pilot data logger. It allows the user to tap into the wire harness and then hook to a palm pilot and log all the values of the motor. Injector pulse, duty cycle, knock count, throttle position, all there to be read and then put to use to be tuned right. Theres also the good ol knockbox. It is basically a box that taps into the ECUs knock sensor. When knock is detected it counts it and goes ape **** so you can let off. These simple items used in conjunction with something like an Apex'i Safc give you your own mini dyno anytime you drive. The first gen DSMs dont use OBDII software. So I'm sure their ECUs cant be too far from ours.

xfeastonarsex

iTrader: (5)

IF you got an olde tyme laptop why dont you just create an emulator for it and use that as your ecu? Then you should be able to configure everything on your own? Does this make sence?

xfeastonarsex

iTrader: (5)

o btw if you need crap from radioshack i can swing 30% discount.

Hamza734

Jason,

It DOES make a difference which dyno is being used. Very few chassis dyno's have the capability to vary load.
Just about all brake (engine) dyno's do, that's why OEM engineers use them to tune the stock ECU's. Of course, a huge amount of "over the road" testing is involved as well.

My point was that reprogramming the stock equipment isn't a great idea. Mazda probably put a good deal of effort towards tuning the ECU correctly, so any changes any of us will likely make things work. The reason I recommended programmable EFI is because these systems already have software which make it easy to the change the maps of the ECU. Creating new software to do so is the equivalent of reinventing the wheel.

NZConvertible

So explain to me how you and thousands of others were able to successfully tune their programmable ECU's on a chassis dyno. Reprogramming stock ECU's (generally newer ones than ours) on a chassis dyno is a very common practice.
In the case of the FC I agree. For more modern stock ECU's that not always the case.

Hamza734

I never said it couldn't be done....it's just not ideal. Ideally, you would tune on a variable load, steady state chassis dyno. There aren't many of these suckers around...

jinx22630

Im not talking about taking the stock software and just hopping it up slightly.
I'm talking about having the ability to change injector multipliers (for different injectors) Add or subtract timing throughout the Map, and still leave the ECU with the ability to extrapolate the in between places. Why would you buy a micrtech or a haltech, when you already have one installed in your cars? Its that simple. Ok here's an example. As we speak, I can take a 92 honda SI ECU that is auto, add a jumper and a resistor, and use it for a 5 speed Integra. On that same ecu, I can take 3 or four parts that are availible from Radio Shack, and add an external ROM with my maps on them. I can then use that Ecu to power a turbo GS-R running 720 injectors, Lumpy *** cams, A huge intake manifold, a ported and polished head, and then add a boost table at the end of the ROM, so that i can run whatever values I want to when the car see's boost. Not to mention being able to use a GM 3 bar map sensor. And this is ALL with the stock Honda computer. Its all in what you make the software do. Its all in what options you want. THIS is what I want for us. You can spend less than 40 bucks for the hardware that you need to convert your STOCK ECU to do this. IT'S ALL IN THE SOFTWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh Yeah, Happy Birthday to me.
I'm 29 today, doesn't that suck?
Anyway, somebody better take me out for a beer.

razorback

happy birthday jinx.

jinx22630

Thanks Razorback. I'm feelin' old and feeble already!!!!

wpgrexx

it seems like the current tred on this forum is to flame anyone who has any idea to do something about engine management unless they say complete stand alone. Why are thre so many haters out there. I applaud the man for trying something and willing to donate his time to the fc community.

Hamza734

*Sigh*

Jinx, happy birthday. Please bear in mind, I have no desire whatsoever to discourage you. If you want to do it, Godspeed.

However, I do honestly feel your wasting your time. I've had a stock ECU, upgraded ECU, and now fully programmable EFI (MicroTech) in my car. Without question, the Microtech is better in every way (compared to the stock and reprogrmmed ECU). Installing a programmable EMS in our cars is EASY and CHEAP. Furthermore, no matter how well you tune your system your still stuck with an old 8-bit chip. Most every programmable EFI uses 16 bit chips. The HARDWARE in the stock system is the limiting factor, not the software (MAPS, tuning whatever you want to call it....)

On a closing note, I'll say this: How many 400+ HP 2nd gens are using the stock ECU? Hardly any.

jinx22630

Hey Hanz734, thanks for the happy birthday wish. It's cool man, I know what you're saying. I totally understand where you are coming from. Normally I would be VERY inclined to agree with you. But I just have this feeling man. The feeling that we could make good things happen with this project. I'm totally ready to face failure. I can deal with that. But now that I have the idea in my head, you guys are gonna have to take up a collection to put me in a private home if I don't try, cause it'll drive me crazy. I really do understand that most of you guys aren't trying to flame me, you're just trying to keep me from dissapointing myself. For that I thank you. But I gotta do it.
BTW. I'd like to at some point in time, try to organize a meet of all the guys that are close to me, in the DC,VA,MD area that are interested in this project. Just to hang out and meet each othe face to face and bullshit a little and share what we know. If anyone is interested Pm me.

Rex4Life

Hey Jinx,

Don't give up on the forum just cause you get some negative feedback.

I think your goals are realistic and I'm glad to see someone going through the effort. After all, most of us do this for fun anyways and if you look at it in a practical manner you really can't justify it. You ought to team up with yearsofdecay and see if you can sell these chips pre-programmed.

I'm a sw developer and aero E so I know the challenges your up against. Wish I had the time for this, maybe in a year after my TII conversion, I'll be looking for another project.

Might want to download that knight sport chip and see what it does--just a suggestion.

Keep up the hacking and good luck, you can do it.

Scott

mazdaspeed7

Im very interested in how this works out. I would PREFER to keep a MAF, albeit a ford hotwire type(90mm from a lightning, anyone?). A MAF makes it a lot easier to stage the intake ports/runners with a fail-safe.

Ive got a S5 ecu Im willing to donate.

jinx22630

Thanks Scott!!! I'm not gonna get discouraged. You can help though. Just pop in and out of the forum that I set up. Leave questions, ideas, critisism, support. Whatever.
On the preprogrammed chip thing, it's not really gonna be like that. Its just going to give people the oppurtunity to use their own factory ecu to do the tuning with. The software (once written) will give you ability to tune the car for the mods that YOU have. So it would be very hard to have just an all around chip.
I hope to see you on the forum, already a couple of people have shoen interest in helping. Even if it's just shouting encouragement.
Thanks for the support. But you guys are as much a part of this as I am. It's OUR baby. I don't stand to make a single dime for this, nor is that my intention.

jinx22630

Oh yeah, like I mentioned a few posts ago, I'm off work for quite a while due to the injury of my arm. I'm a mechanic by profession, and would really like to try to give a hand to anyone who might need it. I don't know everything about RX7's, but two or more heads are always better than one. Anyway I guess what I'm saying is, that if anyone needs any help or a second pair of hands; pm me, and if I'm close enough i'll come lend a hand. I'm going nuts sitting in the house all f'ing day.
I'm in Northern Virginia