Rpeck

No they are not free, but they are not that expensive either ~$300 for both chips and for the Mod chip they request a full list of all your mods, and do the chip accordingly. Who's car are you going to test these things on? It may end op costing you more for a new motor. also your sig says "TII Conversion coming soon" But i guess you still have the free time to try to to "reverse engineer an rx7 ecu"

Hey go for it. Maybe I am just jelous I can't find the free time to stop and take a leak, while you have time to re-create the wheel.

jinx22630

Trust me, there is not much involved in actually creating the chip once you have the software figured out. Im also talking about writing a ROM tuner specificly for Tubo and non turbo second gen rx7's, that would be freeware. All you would have to do is take this software to your dyno facility, have them load it on their laptop, plug in their emulator, and boom, you have you own custom chip. If you have your own eprom programmer, and a buddy that happens to have the same car with the same mods, you can just burn him a copy. I'm starting to get the feeling that no one likes free stuff. I hope I'm wrong.

jinx22630

BTW- I'm off work for about a year due to an injury, so yeah, I have a lot of time to dick around.

deevious

??? Give a list of mods and they make you the chip ???
Without even getting the car on a rolling road and hooking up some extra sensors? That doesn't sound too healthy ...

razorback

would this work for a bridgeport? what if you have some weird *** mods? still work?

jinx22630

See thats the thing, you take them the software, which they in turn load on to their laptop. Then, an eprom emulator is plugged into the eprom socket on your ecu.
The emulator holds all the values that the chip would, only its just used for tuning. The dyno operator, or whoever is tuning your car on the dyno, can then change fuel, timing, redline etc, via the laptop. When the tuner is satiesfied with the settings after tuning, he then removes the emulator, saves the settings via the software, and then loads those very same values into an eprom burning program. He then burns the chip, verifies that it is error free, and then places it back onto your ECU board. What you are left with, is a chip, that is custom tuned for your car. If you ad mods, you just take the car back (they will already have the software on their laptop) and get them to retune it, which will take very little time. I also agree with Deevious, it is impossible to give someone a list of mods, then have them make you a chip. Can you say bye-bye motor? How are they gonna tune for altitude and temp?

Rpeck

I gave them a list of mods, a list of the specs of the mods, pictures, and 16Hrs of dyno charts... No by by motor yet. They told me the more information, the more accurate they can get. I am very happy thus far. It is a general tune, with removal of the fuel cut module also... any fine tuning you will have to go back to the dyno, just like any other setup.

jinx22630

I'm sure that they can make it work to a point. But I wouldn't be 100% sure about it, unless they had MY car on the dyno. Anyway, I didn't mean to start a pissing match about any other companies out there. I simply wanted to know if anyone had any knowledge about what I am about to try to do. Maybe I am only satiesfying my own need to figure it out. If thats the case, then I'll just let this thread die, and continue to gather info on my own. I don't mean to sound childish or anything, I just think it's pointless for people to try to **** on other peoples parades (No offense meant toward you Rpeck).

Rpeck

No offence taken, I hope it works out for you. I just don't know how programable some of those parameters are.. I would think if it was as easy as you make it seem it would be alot more popular, It just sounds liek your trying to make almost a Haltech out of old ECU technology, these are 15 year old cars for the most part.

If you have the time then by all means give it a shot.. I would be willing to help if I could, though I have no spare ECU's. Best of luck to you .. keep us all posted.


-Robert

jinx22630

No problem (I'm glad you didn't take offense to what I said). Not a Haltech per se, but there are enough features on a stock ECU to keep a programmer busy for years. And speaking of old technology? The older the better. It seems that Mazda rx7 ecu's are very similar to older Honda ECU in the aspect, that quite a few of these control units still have the serial ports built right onto the boards. Its usually agreed that these were left over from factory racing projects, as it was mutually more cost effective for the engineers of the race division of the companies to be able to use off the shelf hardware, and then modify it slightly to be used with the race cars and engines that they were building. Let me elaborate a bit here, and give you a little background so that everyone reading will understand exactly what it is that I hope for us all to achieve. A few years ago, when i was building highly modified Honda motors for a company in Virginia, i became aware of a company called Hondata. Now what Doug from Hondata had pretty much done, was unlock the potential of the Honda ecu, leaving it able to be used as its own stand-alone engine management system. Well Dough found this to be a proverbial "Cash Cow" for him, so throgh many hours spent testing and retesting, he has refined his craft. Not only is the Honda computer better to use, (because of the millions of dollars that the Honda R&D department has already spent designing it), But every one wishing to have an engine management system already has one installed. It only takes very small modifications to the ecu alone to make this possible...well that and some special software. Well A short time ago, I was introduced to a gentleman who decided that it was kinda fucked up to have to pay 1000's of dollars to have something done that anyone with a reasonable amount of technical knowledge could do themselves. I wont get into all the deatails, but as of right now there are probably 5 or 6 FREE software packages that are readily availibel for download that will let you accomplish the same things using the technology already availible on your ecu. Things that can be done with said stock ecu at this point: Add boost tables for non-turbo ecu's (Honda didn't have a turbo car over here) Full Datalogging, Two stage rev limiter (for drag applications) Full fuel and spark control, including fuel multipliers for GIANT injectors, Full throttle shifting, and the ability to add a usb port to the ecu. These are just a few of the things that can be done with an almost stock Honda ecu. Now I ask you this, if you could go to radio shack, and buy a few parts that would allow you full control of your ecu, (or allow you to create the ecu that you need, out of a cheaper more availble ecu), would you ever consider BUYING a Haltech, when the software that you would need would be readily availible and FREE? I believe that with some knowlegeable (sic?) people, this could be accomplished for us as well. It seems to be pretty much the same technology from what I can tell so far.
Thanks for indulging me

ajsuper7

im glad a private person has enough knowhow and experience to figure these ecu's out. i feel that the market for upgraded chips is way too expensive, it should not cost 300$ to change a few values on an eprom. hell id say 50 bucks is too much. i understand why companies must charge so much for time, cost, and labor but whatever the return value on these chips is not worth what is charged to me. so good luck...if i get my hands on a spare s5 ecu ill send it your way.

Project84

I have a ECU from a 86 GXL that had an auto tranny. I also have one from a 87 N/A RX7 with manual tranny. I have a Haltech E6K that I am using, so I would be willing to donate the stock ECUs to the cause of research and development if you are still looking for donors. PM me if you are interested.

razorback

if you get this to work i may seriously consider it. seeing i can not currently afford the 1500$ it costs to buy a haltech and have it pro tuned that i have to have done.

jinx22630

Werd. I've set up a forum specifically for this project, so that we dont't clutter up the rx7club forum with it. I just think too many people would be asking too many questions, and it would make the mods job harder.

here's the link http://jinx.bloki.com/forum


I'm not sure how good this forum will work, since its a free one i found. Anyway, Let's just start posting our info and observations here. I'm really glad to see an interest in this. Even if you are not technically savy. please come to the forum and learn and ask questions

also PM if you find something wrong with the forum.

Crusader_9x

thres a guy that goes by henrik on the teamfc3s.org forum that has already done this i think. u might wanna pm him and see. i know that he can datalog with the stock ecu but i am unsure on the reprograme thing

jinx22630

Thank you very much for the tip, I will contact him and see whats up.
Thanks alot.

NZConvertible

Rewriting an ECU chip this way is the tuning equivalent of pissing into the wind. If your chip wasn't tuned in real-time on a dyno, then the "tuner" has absolutely no idea what effects his changes have actually had. It is just not possible to accurately tune an engine based on a list of mods. You can't look at a picture of an engine port or exhaust system and predict the way they'll flow. I've have heard many, many stories about these off-the-shelf or over-the-phone chips, and they were rarely positive ones. Many simply made the mixtures rich all over and resulted in increased fuel consumption with no measurable gains in power.

The fact that your motor is still running does not mean it's a good tune, more likely it's simply a very safe tune. While you may not have had any negative effects, I highly doubt any improvements made could justify the cost. I'd be very interested to see a back-to-back comparison between your chip and a stock one in your car.

Even if full control of the stock ECU is available (there are others besides the Honda ECU that have software pakages available), the basics of tuning remain completely unchanged. Having the car actually present during the tuning is obviously the most fundamental of these.

If you don't have the knowledge, experience or equipment to tune a Haltech, then you're not going to be able to tune a modified stock ECU either. Both will require a pro and a dyno.

jinx22630

You're absolutely righ NZconvertable, I in no way, want people to believe that they can just do a few things to their ECU and expect there car to run right. As with ALL chips and stand alone engine management systems, You MUST have it tuned on a DYNO, by a reputable, knowlegable person. If not, you've just pulled a grenade pin, and it's only a matter of time before it goes off.

Once again, Ive set up a forum for this project, so that we don't little up this forum. All who are interested please join.

http://jinx.bloki.com/forum

razorback

i know someone who tunes haltechs and plan on him tuning mine. just looking fora temp solution

Rpeck

I have no intentions of the upgraded ECU controling the whole system without the need for extra tuning. That is why I spent 16 Hrs on the dyno.. I also have a S-AFC to control the fuel output. The idea of the ECu upgrade was to get the ECU "closer" to my current configuration, elimate fuel cut (and keep the stock boost gauge working) and also get the "clean" chip with a very California friendly setup for emissions. The chip I got was mainly to adjust duty cycle on the injectors, and the timing curve.

Fuel cut, timing curve, duty cycle, emissions chip, and any other upgrades done are well worth ~$300 to me. After all it cannot be any worse.. the stock ECu certainly does not have compensations in it for the amount of modifacations I have done. I might someday buy a stand alone system, but for now... ...

-Robert

jinx22630

The cool thing is Rpeck, is that when we get this all figured out, you should be able to control the whole system. All of the sensors will already be there. The other cool thing is, is that when we get the software written, I'm hoping to add a digital dashboard that will enable you to view the status of EVERYTHING that is ECU dependant. Including injectors. This in my opinion, will be an invaluable diagnosis tool for our cars.

theloudroom

This is great!

I don't have any spare ECU's, but I'm an EE, so maybe I can help out somehow?

Either way, I'll be very interested to play with the result. Is any software developed going to be open source?

razorback

please hurry up

jinx22630

Its ALL going to be open source, I'm gonna work on a software agreement that will give us legal leverage in the event that someone tries to take what we do and use it commercially, or sell any of it on ebay for a profit.
The Idead here is not to get rich, but to educate everyone interested, and to teach them how to get the most out of their ECU without having to spend thousands of dollars. Loudroom, you being an EE would be very valuable. Please join the ECU forum at http://jinx.bloki.com/forum and start helpin whenever and however you can.
thanks

Hamza734

Dude, don't waste your time. The stock EFI was good for its time... it just became outdated some time in the mid-nineties. Much better (i.e. programmable EMS) systems can be can be bought and tuned super cheap. It's as simple as that.

Eight bit ROM boards went the way of the dinosaurs a long-a** time ago. Unless a QUALIFIED engine tuner is doing the tuning, there's no reason to have an ECU reprogrammed. There was only ONE really qualified tuner in the U.S and he decided he'd rather live in Japan

I've experiemented with several ECU reprogramming companies and I found that they all only do one thing:
they make the car run rich! While this is a crude and simple way of tuning an RX7, it's less then ideal.

Just my .02 cents.