does anyone have any experience running e85? What a/f values are normally used?

 

ideally you tune to around the same afr's.... but you'll need twice as much fuel to reach that. for example; say you currently make 200whp with a 4x550 injector combo. on E85 you'll need 4X1000cc's and a performance pump for the same amount of power. it's like running an alcohol setup. the great thing is that 20psi or more can be attained on this now "pump" fuel.

i'm doing some experiments with this and will know some of the limits soon. my buddies shop has tested a couple turbo hondas using nothing but pump E85 and made 600whp around 24psi. no race gas mixed in or anything. stock fuel lines....

this could be the next big thing, but not everyone is carrying it yet. here in NC there are only 3 stations that even have it, but it's cheaper to fill a 55 gal drum of this stuff than C16

 

E85 will eventually eat the rubber fuel lines and all other rubber seals in the intake (gaskets included). It will also eventually destroy injectors although there are E85 compatiable injectors available they are not cheap. We are doing some experimentation with E85 in my Automotive Engineering Technology classes at Ferris State University, and it takes a lot more E85 to obtain the same BTU value regular pump gas. For example stoichiometeric or ideal fuel to air ratio for gas is 14.6-14.7:1 where E85 is about 9.0:1 therefore almost double the fuel is required to produce the same power as gasoline. BUT E85 is over 100 octane so it is more resistant to detonation so you can run higher boost levels on E85 then on pump gas before detonation. Hope this info helps you out!

 

Unless you are running a super high boost turbo car and have lots of money to burn, then its simply not worth it for us. There is a very large upfront expense involved in making your car work with E85 for the reasons stated above. You would have to replace your entire fuel sustem with stuff rated for e85, which isn't at all cheap.
Even if your car already runs on it (flex fuel) it is only economical after you factor in the loss in fuel milage if you live in a place like California where gas is super expensive. For example, where I live gas is currently $2.25 per gallon (2.05 until 3 days ago ) and e85 is 1.95. Even with a 15% loss in fuel milage, which is pretty conservative, you would spend more money running e85 than regular gas. If your car would use premium this is a different story, but most cars don't use premium.

 

I am going to watch this thread for a bit...

 

I wish gas was $2.25 here it is $2.56......sucks!!!

 

the alcohol safe injectors arent all that much more expensive. Marren fuel injection's injectors are alcohol compatible if you have the "alternative fuel oring kit". Using their injector calculator, it seems that adding a third injector for each rotor is a must for making 450hp+.

On the subject of adding a 3rd injector to each rotor... Do you just need to weld an extra bung on the the manifold for this? Where is it typically placed? Is there any particular reason that people's primary injectors are considerably smaller than the secondarys? It seems for what i have read that when people are running big injectors they only run them on the secondarys. If people were replacing all 4 injectors wouldnt it make sense to have 4 of the biggest injectors possible? Also can an E6X control 3 injectors?

Will premix mix with E85?

Also, No_Rotor_RX7 said to tune it to around the same afrs but stochiametric for ethanol is 9:1. Since E85 isnt pure ethanol i can understand tuning to slightly higher afrs but wont it be running really lean running at afrs for gasoline? Also running that lean wont things get a bit hot? i guess some water injection can take care of that...

Im full of questions today!
Thanks for all the responses

 

o another thought... probably gunna have to get a bigger gas tank if im using ethanol...

 

This is a bit confusing matter, wideband O2 sensors are in fact Lambda sensors. What No_rotor is suggesting is you tune to the same lambda. This is absolutely correct, and you may even be able to go leaner (as less fuel volume is needed to obtain the same charge cooling). Bottom line is, dont change any settings on your wideband, just tune the car as you normally would(for the same AFRs).

The main things that ethanol/methanol are not compatible with are rubber, some plastics, and aluminum. I did some testing with pure methanol(much worse than e85) and rubber is immediately and irreversably affected. This includes rubber fuel lines, injector orings, and the rubber gasket for the fuel tank sender unit. The plastics I tested such as injector air bleeds and injectors bodies did not seem immediately affected. Aluminum showed no short term affects at all. The last two would need more long term testing. Steel and anodized aluminum are compatible. It does not need to be SS.

 

I did a bit of searching on google and found http://e85vehicles.com/e85/index.php
One thing that might end up being a problem is the gas tank is going to have to be swapped for a fuel cell because the lining. (i forgot what it was called)

 

It's $3.06 for 89 octane here.