sure, 150-155 at the wheels is less than 168 at the wheels (someone just said their t2 got 168 at the wheels with a cone filter). But, remember, adam's car weighs in at 2600 lbs.. some 200-300 lbs lighter than the turbo ones..

-Tesla

 

MSpeed7,
Have you found the cause of the problem yet....I might have something similar on my car.

Todd

 

I have had both NA and now TII. To those who say there is no way he could beat a lightly modded TII with his power- Wake up! It could happen. First of all, in order to have the same power to weight as a 3000lb (guess that would be 89+") TII that dynoed at 168HP (don't know if 87+ or 89+?) w/ cone filter his 126HP NA would have to weigh 2250Lbs. My full interior '86 base NA weighed 2450lbs; and I know it is possible to drop to 2250Lbs race prepped. Could happen. Now, lets consider driving abilities; look at your timeslips from when you first went to the 1/4 mile and look at them after some practice. Do you think even 22HP would have helped enough those first runs to surpass your later runs? Another point, you TII owners know how many 150k mile TIIs are out there that aren't running for crap (I know mine wasn't) Do you think all owners are smart enough to do the right mods first; getting rid of clogged pre-cat instead of adding a cone filter for example. It could happen, so don't totally discount someone saying a highly modded NA could beat a lightly modded TII. I love my TII and w/ a couple of the right mods it is an animal, but I wouldn't be the least surprised to see a tatty looking 1st gen w/ a terrible idle (stripped to 2000Lbs and bridge ported to over 200RWHP) blow it out of the water at a stoplight, or an '86 ITS race car w/ 200RWHP and whatever the minumum weight is take it out on the straights and turns!

 

You can make a N/A go faster then a TII or FD, just put the renesis motor in from teh RX Evolve in, (not the rx-8 engine) i hear its not the same as the renesis motor too bad... (feel free to correct me if i'm wrong)

the RX-evolve Renesis motor is suppose to be 280 naturally asspirated right?
=) 12 000 rpm redline

 

I dont know how much hp im gonna end up with but my 87 NA should be good. Maybenot 200s but good. ITs ported. Dual Exhaust.......str8 not cats not nothering from thrRB Dual header to N1s and more stuff . Ill list it all when I test it. Later
GZ

 

Im getting there. I still cant explain the misfiring at the dyno, but I have my car running better than it ever has. The root of my problems was a problem which I attributed to the wrong cause a while ago. Long time ago, when I just had gutted cats, ported intake manifold, and cone filter, I had my timing advanced. That was when I started messing with the timing in search of more power. Everything was great, then I had my full true dual axhaust done, and put it on. My car felt like it was hitting a brick wall at 6K rpm. Then I thought it was from leaning out(which I now know was not the problem), so i got 550 cc secondaries and a TII fuel pump. That fixed my problem, I could rev freely to redline. Fast forward to where my car was this weekend. I got home after the disappointing dyno, and pulled off my HI-6, which was installed in the summer. My car got worse at redline. I retarded the timing back to stock timing, and it got worse still. Today I pulled the 550's and TII fuel pump off, and put the stock ones back on. Ran great past redline, no more redline hesitation. I advanced my timing back to just before where it was, and it was still fine, but had more power than earlier.

My problem was adding more fuel when I should have retarded my timing or used higher octane. When my car felt like it was hitting a brick wall, it wasnt from leaning out, it was detonation. Dumping more gas in there made it not detonate, but it was running so rich I wasnt really making good power. The Hi-6 made it burn better, so the running rich wasnt as bad.

Conclusion...N/a's DO NOT need bigger injectors unless they have a way to control them, such as a S-AFC. And they dont need the extra fuel until AFTER a street port.



I have ridden in a modded TII(BrianTII's car, specifically), which is making 212 rwhp. His car is definately not slow. I was impressed with how well his car drove. Turbos and n/a's have a totally different feel. His car pulled harder than mine, but my car pulls longer. Im not going to get into my car's overall speed compared to his, because it wouldnt be a good argument without his side, and my car was running like **** when he rode in it. He rode in it the morning of the dyno, and my car was doign the same thing it was doing ont he dyno, and I had an extra 100 lbs of stuff in my car, for the long trip I made.

If anybody is wondering, my car is about 2600 lbs without me in the car. For the trip, I had the clothes and the jack, spare tire, tools, etc in the back, which is extra weight I normally dont have.

 

I think a small handfull of TII owners who have embarrased themselves here are genetically predispositioned to having an incredibly strong susceptibity to COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT OF THIS POST!!!! As well as needing fast cars to compenstate for... well... I'm sure they know.

Mazdaspeed7's dyno result is pointless for determining HP. All it shows is evidence of a malfuntion.

Why are you TII guys dumping all that money into your cars??? They just won't be fast. Why don't you go to a Mustang or Camaro forum, where all the guys with 11 second cars can laugh at you and say your car's are ****. You have to pour a ton of money into a car to get it to the point where it will probably still be beat by a Camaro- if it also have several thousand dollars into it. You know how fast a Camaro can be if you dump a couple grand in it?? A lot faster than your car!

Then you will try to tell these gas hogging pigs that you like your TII because they are different from Detoit iron, they are quick, fun, are unique, and you have (Uh oh- key point here- )YOUR OWN PERSONAL PREFERANCE!!! You can try to explain why you have put lots of money into you car to try and get it to the same level as theirs,
But they will still snicker at you because they don't care, and then go and steal some kids lunch money for fun.
Do you start to see my freaking point here???

I would NEVER actually say and mean what I said above, but that's exactly what a Mustang owner would say to you twits if he had the same attitude as you do.
Funny- 3rd gens are a lot faster than TII's but I don't hear them trashing you guys all the time!
It's a point of pride for me to say I have gotten my power without a turbo. Just like it would be for you to say that you don't need nitrous.
So take it easy, and be carefull- because unless you have a lot done to your TII, I will smoke you- and have a lot of fun doing it, because it was by a car I practically built myself.

Teed off- Dan.

 

Im glad theres some sensible people here, no offense to DcamcoTII and BrianTII, they are the coolest TII owners I know. BTW, hows your car doing? Mine is getting better. I will probably dyno again in a month or so. That gives me plenty of time to fix all of my problems, and get my exhaust redone(it needs it).

 

Very well said

 

Hmm.. I don't think any of us Turbo guys embarassed ourselves.. but if that's your point of view, then so be it..

3rd Gen's being faster then T2's? Stock for stock prolly.. but I'm sure alot of people can tell you diffrently..

As for trashing na's.. It seems like you didn't bother readin any of my posts.. or you jsut took up selective reading.. my point was that Turbo owner's usually don't bother picking on na owners.. to most turbo owners an na owner is another rx7 owner... It's usually the other way around.. NA owners enjoy pickin gon turbo owners.. usually out of envy I would imagine.. perhaps not.. overzealousness?

 

hey! i'm a "cool" T2 owner! lol...j/k, haha

 

Back to helping him with his car...

What have you done so far to check for errors? Any ECU codes? What made you lean towards the ignition? What type of sounds was it making?

Just trying to help him instead of ragging on him. Jeez

 

Man all this talk about turbo vs. n/a, and if I've read right nothing condesending has even been said? Chris Ng seems to be a factual based thinker, which I like, so if you want to cry about it and think he's being "mean", so be it. When it comes down to it, when all the performance modifications have been performed, forced induction will always produce more power. So obviously that's going to create a bit of a strain between turbo and n/a owners? Add to the fact that N/As are NOT easy to make fast... you get the idea.

Mazdaspeed7 I love your car, and I hope you get things resolved. Whether your car makes substantially more power or not (I'm sure it will), it's still an awesome car.

Everyone take a chill pill

 

I agree there.

I don't see how hard it is to understand that forced induction will make more power than naturally aspirated. That's not my point. I already had an na with everything possible done to it except a port job. It was loud, obnoxious, and I didn't enjoy that. I hate loud cars. I bought another TII to replace my first one. So now I guess I'm a ''cocky TII owner'' instead of just an RX-7 owner

I don't recall bashing Adam's car, I just quoted Agent_D and siad I don't think he will get to 180 rwhp. I'd give his car mid 150's based on the mods. Unlike most of the people on this board, I have a firm grasp on reality. And sorry to break the news to you guys, but what you beat on the street doesnt mean ****. It's not timed, so it could just be a fluke. Unless you beat several of the same kind of cars on a routine basis, it just does not matter. I guess I can say I beat a Ferrari, since he was just ******* with me and never downshifted

In all honesty, it seems the NA people jump on the TII people first, and I don't think we should be bitching AT ALL, rather helping each other out.

With all that said, I will race any NA on this board. You'd better have nitrous and/or a bridgeport if you want to win Or you can race my first gen, its probably faster than the NA FC's here too

 

agreed, forced induction will always make more power. i have nothing against the TII owners because most of them are really cool guys, its not that they put us down, they are just the first to contra dict. i had an 86 SE that i was running a 14.4 1/4 in, i dont think thats slow and i could stay even with/or beat 2000 Stang GT's depending on the driver, i beat a 95 Camaro Z28 with the car by about 1 foot, his bumper was at my fender well at 100mph when we both shut down.

like i said, ill agree to forced induction being faster, but n/a's can be quick, and to me a car in the low 14's is a fast car period.

that n/a i was running 14.4 had the interior stripped with a bunch of weight removed elsewhere also, pace setter header/2.5" pipe, no cats or mufflers or silencers, cold air intake/modded TB/removed a/c,p/s, bacv, working 6 ports, 205/50/15" tires, 0-60=6sec flat

 

we need to give up this whole na vs TII thing because NO ONE CARES ANYMORE. the whole point of this thread was to help adam with his troubled car. all i see is people arguing over who said what and who has self-confidence issues. LETS DROP THE WHOLE THING AND DO WHAT THIS FORUM WAS MEANT TO DO, HELP EACH OTHER OUT.

i am sure we can all sit here and bash the hell out of each other but that wont get us anywhere. so lets loosen our grips around each others throaghts and do what we all love to do....Beat Honduh boys with rotor motor.

i am glad to hear that you have your car running better, adam. when you drop your motor in i would love to help, oh and i am getting an 80k 87 motor for 450$ soon and i will be porting that biatch and i will prolly need some help with the rebuild. (experience beats the hell out of directions from a manual)

if you need a set of hands to help on your car give me a call.

Justin

 

You going to put the Hi-6 back on it since it runs good again?

 

I was wondering if putting a turbo 11 fuel pump in my n/a that has lots of mods besides port help me or make me run like yours did after six... Also how was your engine pinging. I thought it was good to advance timing as long as u had lots of mods????

Also, why dont u dyno your car now before u street port so u can let everyone see what your cars doing as N/A non streetport. Because u said u were making around just over 200 at the flyweel.... So R U or R U not????

 

N/a's dont need more fuel until after you get into porting the engine and get most of the bolt-ons done. And even then, you should use a S-ACF, so you dont run rich when you dont want to.

About the timing thing, I may be incorrect, but I think you can advance the timing more on a closer to stock car. I didnt mess with the timing at all when I had the exhaust put on, but I was having detonation after, but not before. If you have your timing advanced, reset it everytime you add mods, just to make sure what was fine before wasnt too much for your new mods.

I will be dynoing my car before the port job, partly because I plan on going a little more than a normal street port. I will have the exhaust redone and all of my problems fixed before the dyno though.

Felix, I dont see any reason for putting it back on. I have heard more bad than good about ignitions on n/a's. I was talking to Brian about Carls car last weekend, and ignitions in general. The HKS is the only one that was regularly gaining hp over stock on TII's, but they put one on Carls n/a just to test it, and he got 1 rwhp from it. Most of the other brands, Crane and MSD specifically, seem to cause a hesitation right before redline. I have had that since I put the Hi-6, and its gone now.

Eveerybody else, there was obviously a misunderstanding about everyones intent, with the turbo and n/a bashing, so I say, lets just drop it. Ill get my car fixed and dynoed, then we can all see what my car is really capable of.

 

I've always read the RX-7s have rather good ignitions. I put an MSD setup on my first gen and it really didn't feel any different. I was thinking the Hi-6 would just look shiny under your hood, and thats about it

 

Back on topic- good. Enough said.
Anyways- I unhooked my MSD- I actually think it's a little rougher through the throttle range now- but the idle is a tad better.
The hestiation at 7000 is still there, and still rough to redline.
I tried switching the VDI to low, and the hesitation is gone, but it is down on power in the upper end.
I will try bumping the timing back a bit, I do have it advanced almost 10 degrees before the mark to bring my idle up a bit.
I am seriously considering getting some injector drives, using an old laptop as the primary CPU, and designing my own software based ECU system.
The MSD is going back on. It is smoother through midrange, and it has no effect on the hesitation. Detonation may be my cause as well...