I have messed with the timing, but it has been fine for 12K miles. I wont know for sure whats really going on until I get it fixed. THEN I will post what was really wrong with my car.

I will have a ported engine by the next time I dyno, and depending on the funds, probably a Wolf3d too. We'll see about some n/a power then.

 

It's not a "dis". It's a REALITY check. Show me dyno chart and I'll believe. N/A power is HARD to come by, that doesn't mean that N/A's suck. It doesn't mean I don't like them. It doens't mean I wouldn't own another one. It just means that if you want big numbers out of a little motor... you got to do something more than bolt ons. Simple fact. I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST N/A's. In many respects they are more playful then the TII. I'm just saying that you need to be realistic about what to expect, 180hp from simple bolt ons on an N/A isn't some "easy" thing. I've never seen it happen. The absolute MOST that I've EVER heard from an N/A is low 160rwhp.... and this was from a PROFESSIONALLY built race motor. (Stock porting though)

BTW- Just to give you an idea, my TII with ONLY a cone air filter put down 168 rwhp.

I hope you guys CAN prove me wrong... but until I see proof of the 180rwhp stock ported N/A I'm still going continue with my original statment:



Take it easy, and keep it REAL

 

Boy, I just love how people start to blame the HI-6 before doing any further investigation.&nbsp Just by looking at the dyno graph, I could've told you it wasn't the HI-6; if the HI-6 was bad, you entire graph would've been screwed.&nbsp It's obivous that something is drastically wrong (TPS or 6-ports perhaps?) with your car.

If the HI-6 was screwing something up, your power band would've kept climbing still...



-Ted

 

He's not gonna gain 60 rwhp in 3k rpm, sorry.

 

I just wanted to mention something,

I'm not out to make any enemies with any na owners out there, be it na or turbo, in the end it's all about the driver and their skill (or the size of their *****).. To put it into a little perspective, we have a little group of owners that get together every week or so.. we're a good mix of na and turbo owners.. last summer we took a little drive in the country.. 2 na's, 5 t2's and 1 fd.. as the drive progressed, speeds started to pickup as well as the number of curves.. a few of the guys took off ahead to form the lead pack.. in this lead pack was one of the na drivers, who managed to stay with them and keep up.. meanwhile, I did my best to try and catch up to them but just couldn't do it.. I'm sure it was a combination of driver skill and pure ***** of steel that allowed them to drive the way they did.. I unfortunately was not as comfortable with my driving skills, nor the capabilities of my car to stay with them..

The na is a very capable car in it's own rights.. however let's face it, whenever someone posts a kill story, or talks about being able to beat a certain vehicle, these races usually occured from stop light to stop light, or at the very least, in a straight line.. When it comes to these situations, there is no doubt in my mind that an na fc will not hold it's own with a T2, slightly modded or not.. (without at least some major porting on the n/a)..

It seems to me that I keep reading posts from na owners that they get no respect from the Turbo guys, and that we are constantly putting them down.. so they go on about how much more reliable na's are when compared to a turbo, how much better gas mileage they get, yadda yadda.. I can't help but think that alot of that ranting is coming from people's insecurities because they realize that their fast car is not the fastest out there.. I can't recall the last time I've read my posts from turbo guys putting down the na FC's.. I don't think I've ever read any posts from turbo guys putting down na guys because of flaws with the na motor, and yet when a turbo guy questions an na guy about the power they are making, it's automatically an na vs turbo topic.. I've seen enough turbo guys question other turbo guys about the power they claim to put down, so what's the diffrence?

okay, I'm starting to ramble and I'm sure I can continue to do so for alot longer.. so I'll just stop now..

 

Geez Mr. Ng, helluva time to go off...

And all I'm bitching about is the terrible lag I'm having trying to post on here from Hawaii.



-Ted

 

Hehe, I think that the whole board is lagging.. I'm having pretty slow response here as well

Nice to see ya back Teddy.. It's been awhile since we last spoke.. you prolly don't miss my constant badgering of ya from the past eh? I should drop by the ol rx7 channel and see who else is still in there..

How's hawaii treating ya? did ya bring your FC out there as well? Must be nice to at least be on the same land mass as your GF eh?

 

Hey Chris, after I got my TII, how much did I drive my GX on cruises? I think that speaks for itself........Max

 

MZSD7- You have stock rear muffler's dont you? Man, I noticed a big difference in top end when I replaced mine. I changed the Y pipe later on, which proves that just the mufflers themsleves can make a big diff.
I will be bringin my car to a dyno in the spring. I just have a few things sitting in boxes I need to put in.
I've got TII injectors and fuel pump, (to start with) but I don't want to install them untill I get an S-AFC.

 

I didnt say that Hi-6 was the culprit, or even part of the causes. I simply do not know right now. I know at least part of my problem is the ignition system, so I am starting with that in trying to fix my car. And I havent heard anything yet from people who havent had problems, and actually gained hp from a Hi-6 or any other ignition box on a n/a. If I dont need it, and its not adding hp, why should I keep it?

BTW, everybody was having problems on the dyno day with ignitions. There was water on the floor, and water on the dyno tach lead. Im sure that didnt help any.

Ted, Im curious as your thoughts on why my top end was so dead. My car has never felt as pathetic on the top end as it did on the dyno. When I was doing the dyno runs, I knew something wasnt right because I just didnt have the power I usually have.

 

I'm going to call out the BS here too. You've been touting ridiculous HP levels forever now. I don't blame you for trying to make your car go fast but I seriously doubt you will come up with anything that hasn't been tried before, especially with your budget.

Go get your ignition fixed, or whatever, and go dyno again. I don't think any of us will be suprised by the results, but it may keep you from misleading others in the future. The simple truth is an n/a 13B will never make very much power nomatter what you bolt on or unbolt. Trust me I've tried it, I had all the bolt ons on my n/a and by the time it got to be a little respectable when it came to speed it was loud and obnoxious. I bought a $400 TII that is far from perfect running, and it is every bit as fast as the n/a but at the same time its quiet and much smoother and I haven't even begun to modify it yet.

Props on all the carbon fiber stuff you're doing though!

Matt
-87 TII

 

ya we all se u brought ur attitude to the forum.

and also i think he could get way better times when his power band is from 6k-9k so he did'nt even get a chance to run it in sweet spot do to the misfire damn give him a break and go jump on someone elses nuts wiht ur attitude

 

Its pretty easy to call BS when my engine obviously wasnt running right for the dyno. For all those people who believe that, keep it to yourself until I actually have some worthwhile numbers for my car. Until then, **** off, I dont want to hear it.

I did not start this thread just to have a bunch of cocky turbo owners call BS on my car. I am interested in some ideas as to why my car was misfiring so much, and what I can do to get it running right.

 

And we all see that you're having trouble with your grammar..

No attitude here.. none was brought.. I was pointing out facts..
And as someone had already pointed out, He's been talking about his ability to out accelerate a slightly modified T2 .. It isn't going to happen, not with his modifications and not with the numbers he's posted, or the numbers he's goign to post with whatever is wrong with his car..

 

You can say whatever the hell you want, but the fact is, my car was misfiring throughout the part of the powerband I use. My powerband doesnt reach full potential until 6K, which is RIGHT where my ignition was cutting out on the dyno. I shift at the rev limiter at 8800 when im racing. I only took the dyno up to 8500(on my tach) because it wasnt worth it going higher with the misfires and all.

Pointing out facts...bullshit. That graph shows that my car isnt running right, nothing else. As Tim Benton pointed out in that link to the SE forum I posted earlier, the floor was wet at the dyno, and so was the tach lead for the dyno. The spark could easily have been arcing through the wire to the water, and grounding out in the water on the floor. EVERYBODY that dynoed that day had ignition problems up high, nime was easily the worst though.

If you dont have anything constructive to add here, DONT POST!!!

 

No cocky ness here... I'm just stating facts. I was raising the flag on the guy that thought you could do 180hp if your problem was fixed. I think it's obvious that you can't and won't. The absolute MOST that I think you could even hope for is 160hp. Realistically I think you'll settle into ~150 @ the wheels... which is QUITE respectable for a N/A.

I don't know why the N/A owners get so defesnive on this topic. Like Chris stated, mazdaspeed7 has been stating that he could beat a mildly modded TII, I think it is clear that drivers being equal... that he doesn't stand a chance... even if he does get his issue sorted out.

 

having trouble with my grammar?.. lol.. its cool bro no need to get into **** with u, but all im saying is if u dont have nothing good to say then u should'nt say it at all.

and ADAM dont let **** Blowers bring u down bro.

 

I'm just wondering are you gonna come to the next dyno day? My TII will be good and ready by then

 

Now what kind of world would that be? If nobody would ever raise the b.s. flag because they were afraid of hurtings someone's feelings, then we'd all be driving around in 8 second FC's..

I have nothign against mazdaspeed, except for some statements he has made in the past which I just could not find beliveable.. Other's are free to belive what they want.. and I chose not to belive him.. statements like "Um...my list of cars I have/can beat is pretty long so Ill make it simple. If it cant run a 13 sec 1/4 or lower, I could at least hold my own"
are bound to get people questioning..

My bad.. I neglected to read Tim B's post about your dyno day.. so I went back and read it.. From what I got outta his post, there was something wrong with the tach lead, of all the cars that were dynoed, everyone showed the same break up at the same point on the graph.. Now I wonder.. were the cars actually miss-fireing at this point, or perhaps just the graph output was effected.. There was no mention by Tim about anyone complaining about ignition breakup in their car, just the fact that the graph went a little wild at the end... what are the chances that all of the cars were actually missfireing at the same point ?

anyhow, since I'm obviously striking a nerve with some of you and you don't deem what i have to say as constructive, I'll just stop

 

There was a problem with the tach signal, therefore all of the cars with graphed against their ground speed... not RPM. His breakup had NOTHING to do with the dyno. There were 2 other cars that had "issues". One was running EXTREAMLY poorly (2nd gen) and the other was a 3rd gen that seemed to have some sort of boost or cat problem. (Not ignition related, and it's graph looked fairly normal). Tim Benton's car put down 326hp and had the same normal looking graph like it always does. The tach signal problem only effected the graphs when you would take RPM into account. Mazdaspeed7's graph is based off of ground speed (not RPM), just like the rest of the cars there.

I hope this clears up the dyno "issue"

BTW- Chris: my TII will take any top fuel dragster. Yes, it's fast, and no you can't drive it. (LOL)

 

Youre still missing the point I was trying to get across. This graph isnt showing anything cunstructive about how my car really is. I was missings tons of power up top from the misfiring. I knew something wasnt right all weekend. My car just wasnt driving right, it didnt have the power it uaually has up top. Im getting my problems sorted out as we speak, and my car is getting much better. I WILL be going to the track soon, just to see what i can do now that I have good tires. Please dont flame me for my car misfiring on the dyno, and not being able to get a reading of the power it normally makes. I will be getting on the dyno again once I get it all sorted out.

 

Just with no cats and cat back is not going to raise your hp curve by more than 200 or 300 RPM, the exhaust manifold/header is what changes it.

 

Coming from another cocky TII owner, good luck Adam. Show those morons what's really going on! Take that flag and shove it up........

 

Now now kiddies...
As a TII and a NA owner, I have a bit of a different opinion, when I got my n/a I started modding it, and I could feel the gains in hp, and changed my driving style to match, I got a header, did some mild intake mods, got a catback, tuned my 6 ports to come in at 4000, and made sure the car was top tune, it seemed really quick, comparitively to what it was when I got it, I thought I could take on the world with my mondo n/a and looking at the stock hp numbers of 146, i though I had to have at least 150-160 with the mods, and I could kick some serious ***...
THEN I DROVE AND BOUGHT A MODDED TII....
Chris ng's old car actually...
a completly different world, a world where pontiac supercharged GTP's, cadillac sts's, saab and volvo turbos and even a few porsches fell victim with ease to my new steed...
I still have my n/a, its a great handling car, fun to drive, but when I want serious whack in the nards power, the TII sees the road .
If you can make your N/A as fast or faster than a modded TII, thats impressive, but I have a hard time beleiving it from your dyno sheet, faulty ignition or not, I would guess at best you were on your way to about 140-150 hp, and not much more, but get your damn car fixed and lets see what it does for curiosity sakes, I would be interested..
Max ( a TII owner with n/a roots)....

 

I'd say if he gets his car running right he should be about 150rwhp. Hell I have 135rwhp and my only real power mods are gutted pre-cats and a high flow cat. He has more power mods than me, plus a series 5 so I'd say he should be in the 150-155rwhp area once he gets it running right.