Okay, without a discussion of the SUBjective pro's and con's of DTSS, can anyone conclusively state whether or not DTSS allows the car to take a turn faster and/or tighter at speed, depending on how you wish to define an "improved" turn?

Again, I'm not talking about "feel", I'm talking actual turn radius versus speed versus tires about to lose grip and put the car into a spin or not.

The reason I'm asking is I'd like to autocross my car. I'm willing (and consider it necessary) to "learn" the car's handling very well beforehand (and I am just doing some massive upgrades on my suspension so it *will* need to be relearned), so before I switch out the DTSS bushings for delrin ones, I'd like to know whether or not this will disadvantage me compared to how the vehicle is right now in terms of low-to-moderate speed tight turns, on the edge of the tire-road capability. I haven't been able to find anything really documented on this much, just subjective "most people" or "it gives the car more predictable handling". Well, predictable is an overused and ill-defined word. Predictable based on other cars? Or predictable based on knowing THIS car intimately?

If its suspension-component relevant, my main suspension mods are in my sig. Strut braces may (and probably will) come later, when I've got room on my credit cards again. And probably after I get better wheels/tires.

Thanks much...

 

That's a very good point. If you have experience with how the DTSS feels, and have adjusted your driving style to suit, then it already is predictable.

I'd be interested to know the answer to this too.

 

you also have to think about the fact that your dtss bushings are 15 yrs old and do not work the way they did when they were new. there probably aren't many people who know how a good set of bushings feel on a track.

 

generally, the problem with these bushings installed, is that it makes it feel like you're losing your rear end, even if you're not.

The problem will come if you use R Compound tires, since R comps make almost no noise when they lose traction.

If you get a loud tire (like the Yoko A520, for example), then you'll hear your tires at the limits of their traction, and you should be able to use the "dynamic rear steering" to your advantage. But if you don't hear your tires lose traction, then by the time you realize you actually have lost traction, it's likely already too late.

At least, that's my opinion of it all... And that's how I'll be doing things in AutoX this year (first year AutoXing an RX-7)

 

I've driven my FC hard with and without the DTSS bushings. With them still there, the car would understeer slightly on turn entry and as cornering got harder, at or above ~.5 g of lateral acceleration, the DTSS would alter the rear toe by adding more toe-in to the outside wheel, causing a decrease in understeer. The car felt tight (understeer) during mild cornering and loose (neutral and almost oversteering) during hard cornering. The transition from understeer to neutral felt very spooky, almost like the frame was flexing or something. It was eventually predictable but never felt "right" to me.

After installing my DTSS eliminators I spent a few weeks playing with my suspension settings (adjusting rear toe, front negative camber, adding a GXL rear anti- sway bar) and have the car sorted to my liking. Now, on turn entry there is mild understeer which quickly goes away as the turn is estabilished. Hard turns feel pretty neutral just the same as shallow turns do; the car feel very good and correct to me. There is no more funky transition from understeer to neutrality and the car just feels very solid compared to before. One problem it does still have is the open rear differential : slamming some good curves and doing a 3-2 downshift and mashing the gas too early put me in the ditch one day because the inside wheel broke loose, which was enough to upset the balance and push the normal tendency for power-on oversteer over the limit.

Cliff notes: I am really glad I put in toe eliminator bushings. I needed to fiddle with my suspension settings to take full advantage of them, but the car is quite a bit more "predictable" and solid feeling to me, and I would do it all over again (other than spinning out into a ditch )

 

This is the example of a perfect answer for this question. A big thumbs up for your reply!




And my answer to the question:

The DTSS will not increase the tightness of your cornering ability the least bit. While several people have proven a slightly increased speed through cornering with the DTSS over a delrim bushed FC, you must remember:

#1 it takes a lot of cornering forces to actually make the DTSS work, and the average driver almost never gets there.
#2 It takes quite a bit of high speed cornering experience (especially in reduced radius corners) to ever become fully accustomed to the transition of the DTSS (years and years IMO) to be able to use it in its fullest.

 

word.