Does my timing seem too far advanced? VIDEO included!!!
09-07-09, 02:24 AM
#1
Does my timing seem too far advanced? VIDEO included!!!
I've posted this video in an older thread of mine, but seeing as the subject for that thread is different, I can see that the video would not catch much attention. Straight to the point, I'll reiterate my thread title once again. Does my timing seem too far advanced? I am not sure if I was able to get to TDC with this engine. As I recall I might have switched the pullies on accident with another engine of mine, and could have thrown off the timing marks on the pully. Someone please correct my thinking if I'm wrong, but if the pully and hub are mismatched, the timing is off correct? I think that is the reason Mazda sells these in pairs? Anyways, the video may seem to be lagging, but be assured that the tachometer is reacting the way it does while I was filming it, delayed. It takes a few seconds for some reason to respond? Which is another problem all together.
Another question that I have is towards the end of the video. The car fires up like normal. Now with the key resting in the ON position, I'd move the key to the OFF position to shut engine down, but when I toggle the key back to the ON position, the engine resumes running again, without having to try and crank the engine over with the use of the starter?
Both these issues have me stumped, and I would greatly appreciate anyone's help. I'm losing my patience with this car!
09-07-09, 08:37 AM
#2
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About the slow to respond tach..........not to worrry. That is just a bad connection at the combination meters plugs or on the board of the combination meter. I've a 1986 that the tach won't move until I RAP on the face of the combination meter. I'm not a bit interested in fixing the problem. I can rap all day long, but it only takes one small rap and it works for the rest of the day.
My reading comprehension really must suck. You say the engine is running..........you turn the key from ON to OFF.......then back to ON and the engine still runs. When you turned the key to OFF and don't let the rpms die to zero, then when you put the key back ON the engine will still keep running. Normal condition. By rpms to zero, I don't mean the tach, I mean the physical rotation of the engine going to a dead stop. IF the physical rotation of the engine is at a dead stop, then putting the key back to ON willl not result in the engine running. I must have read that one wrong somehow. Oh well.
If the pulleys/hub b/t SERIES are swapped around, then the timing might very welll be wrong. But if you swapped pulleys b/t the same series then no problem should exist. Marks on the pulleys are at -5 and -20 and not TDC as you know. Like if I take the pulley off a series four non turbo and put it on a series four turbo, the timing marks will be correct.
Buying a aftermarket pulley set from RB or Mazdatrix would solve the question of the timing marks. Or if your real good, like someone I know, you can use liquid displacement to find TDC and then make marks on the pulley for -5 and -20 using school grade math (MY kinda math!). It's a bit messy procedure and time consuming though. But dead accurate.
EDIT: The engine sounds pretty good, to me anyway. It seems to me there is SOMETHING holding the throttle plates open a bit. What? Got me. It can be something as simple as the throttle cable not have a bit of slack in it and that is holding the throttle open a bit. So go to the throttle cable and with your finger test the tension on the cable. You should be able to lift in a upwards direction on the cable, say a 1/8" and the throttle linkage should not move. Well, 1/16 to 1/8' anyway.
Or the water thermowax outfit is holding the throttle plates open a bit. Lift up on the screw that rests against the piston on the water thermowax and see if the throttle linkage move when you do that. Starte at the gap b/t the linkage and the throttle stop screw as you do that. IF the gap closes, that means the throttle linkage did move further to the closed positon and that might indicate a problem in that area.
A good question might be: does the idle drop down after the water temperature gets up to..operating temperature? That would be a clue.
MOtor sounded fine to me. Timing can't be measured by looking at a tach or listening to the purr of your engine in my humble opinion. Takes a TIMING LIGHT. A cheap one will do. No fancy advanced devices need on the timing light. Just one that pulses when connected to a lead coil and aimed at the pulley marks. Engine HOT when doing so,
My reading comprehension really must suck. You say the engine is running..........you turn the key from ON to OFF.......then back to ON and the engine still runs. When you turned the key to OFF and don't let the rpms die to zero, then when you put the key back ON the engine will still keep running. Normal condition. By rpms to zero, I don't mean the tach, I mean the physical rotation of the engine going to a dead stop. IF the physical rotation of the engine is at a dead stop, then putting the key back to ON willl not result in the engine running. I must have read that one wrong somehow. Oh well.
If the pulleys/hub b/t SERIES are swapped around, then the timing might very welll be wrong. But if you swapped pulleys b/t the same series then no problem should exist. Marks on the pulleys are at -5 and -20 and not TDC as you know. Like if I take the pulley off a series four non turbo and put it on a series four turbo, the timing marks will be correct.
Buying a aftermarket pulley set from RB or Mazdatrix would solve the question of the timing marks. Or if your real good, like someone I know, you can use liquid displacement to find TDC and then make marks on the pulley for -5 and -20 using school grade math (MY kinda math!). It's a bit messy procedure and time consuming though. But dead accurate.
EDIT: The engine sounds pretty good, to me anyway. It seems to me there is SOMETHING holding the throttle plates open a bit. What? Got me. It can be something as simple as the throttle cable not have a bit of slack in it and that is holding the throttle open a bit. So go to the throttle cable and with your finger test the tension on the cable. You should be able to lift in a upwards direction on the cable, say a 1/8" and the throttle linkage should not move. Well, 1/16 to 1/8' anyway.
Or the water thermowax outfit is holding the throttle plates open a bit. Lift up on the screw that rests against the piston on the water thermowax and see if the throttle linkage move when you do that. Starte at the gap b/t the linkage and the throttle stop screw as you do that. IF the gap closes, that means the throttle linkage did move further to the closed positon and that might indicate a problem in that area.
A good question might be: does the idle drop down after the water temperature gets up to..operating temperature? That would be a clue.
MOtor sounded fine to me. Timing can't be measured by looking at a tach or listening to the purr of your engine in my humble opinion. Takes a TIMING LIGHT. A cheap one will do. No fancy advanced devices need on the timing light. Just one that pulses when connected to a lead coil and aimed at the pulley marks. Engine HOT when doing so,
09-07-09, 02:57 PM
#3
Hailers is right. Everything he said about the timing I agree with. Same series pulley, same timing marks. Unless you installed the hub without the woodruff key and the marks are off.
And from what I understood about the on/off/restart thing, if your engine is still spinning down it will resume normal operation when the key is returned to run. No problem there, you can do that with any car.
And from what I understood about the on/off/restart thing, if your engine is still spinning down it will resume normal operation when the key is returned to run. No problem there, you can do that with any car.
09-07-09, 07:14 PM
#5
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I don't speak for Green, but I can remove the pulley/hub from my 86 non turbo and put it on my 87 turbo car and the marks line up.
I can also take my hub/pulley from an old 1982 and install it on either my turbo or non turbo cars and it works also. Only problem there is that the 82 has the mark at TDC and not -5........but I can measure the diameter of the pulley and figure out the distance from TDC to -5 and that mark lines up.
Hub/pulley in the above means the pulley attached to the hub in question.
As in loosen the hub nut, then line up the timing marks. Pull the hub/pulley off without moving the eccentric shaft. Then install the hub/pulle off the other car/engine or in my case, also the 82 hub/pulley.
In my case both turbo and non turbo are seires four and all line up the same. Plus the 82 hub/pulley also lines up if you measure off the TDC mark on that pulley.
Never owned a series five ever.
I can also take my hub/pulley from an old 1982 and install it on either my turbo or non turbo cars and it works also. Only problem there is that the 82 has the mark at TDC and not -5........but I can measure the diameter of the pulley and figure out the distance from TDC to -5 and that mark lines up.
Hub/pulley in the above means the pulley attached to the hub in question.
As in loosen the hub nut, then line up the timing marks. Pull the hub/pulley off without moving the eccentric shaft. Then install the hub/pulle off the other car/engine or in my case, also the 82 hub/pulley.
In my case both turbo and non turbo are seires four and all line up the same. Plus the 82 hub/pulley also lines up if you measure off the TDC mark on that pulley.
Never owned a series five ever.
09-07-09, 11:49 PM
#7
About the slow to respond tach..........not to worrry. That is just a bad connection at the combination meters plugs or on the board of the combination meter. I've a 1986 that the tach won't move until I RAP on the face of the combination meter. I'm not a bit interested in fixing the problem. I can rap all day long, but it only takes one small rap and it works for the rest of the day.
My reading comprehension really must suck. You say the engine is running..........you turn the key from ON to OFF.......then back to ON and the engine still runs. When you turned the key to OFF and don't let the rpms die to zero, then when you put the key back ON the engine will still keep running. Normal condition. By rpms to zero, I don't mean the tach, I mean the physical rotation of the engine going to a dead stop. IF the physical rotation of the engine is at a dead stop, then putting the key back to ON willl not result in the engine running. I must have read that one wrong somehow. Oh well.
If the pulleys/hub b/t SERIES are swapped around, then the timing might very welll be wrong. But if you swapped pulleys b/t the same series then no problem should exist. Marks on the pulleys are at -5 and -20 and not TDC as you know. Like if I take the pulley off a series four non turbo and put it on a series four turbo, the timing marks will be correct.
Buying a aftermarket pulley set from RB or Mazdatrix would solve the question of the timing marks. Or if your real good, like someone I know, you can use liquid displacement to find TDC and then make marks on the pulley for -5 and -20 using school grade math (MY kinda math!). It's a bit messy procedure and time consuming though. But dead accurate.
EDIT: The engine sounds pretty good, to me anyway. It seems to me there is SOMETHING holding the throttle plates open a bit. What? Got me. It can be something as simple as the throttle cable not have a bit of slack in it and that is holding the throttle open a bit. So go to the throttle cable and with your finger test the tension on the cable. You should be able to lift in a upwards direction on the cable, say a 1/8" and the throttle linkage should not move. Well, 1/16 to 1/8' anyway.
Or the water thermowax outfit is holding the throttle plates open a bit. Lift up on the screw that rests against the piston on the water thermowax and see if the throttle linkage move when you do that. Starte at the gap b/t the linkage and the throttle stop screw as you do that. IF the gap closes, that means the throttle linkage did move further to the closed positon and that might indicate a problem in that area.
A good question might be: does the idle drop down after the water temperature gets up to..operating temperature? That would be a clue.
MOtor sounded fine to me. Timing can't be measured by looking at a tach or listening to the purr of your engine in my humble opinion. Takes a TIMING LIGHT. A cheap one will do. No fancy advanced devices need on the timing light. Just one that pulses when connected to a lead coil and aimed at the pulley marks. Engine HOT when doing so,
My reading comprehension really must suck. You say the engine is running..........you turn the key from ON to OFF.......then back to ON and the engine still runs. When you turned the key to OFF and don't let the rpms die to zero, then when you put the key back ON the engine will still keep running. Normal condition. By rpms to zero, I don't mean the tach, I mean the physical rotation of the engine going to a dead stop. IF the physical rotation of the engine is at a dead stop, then putting the key back to ON willl not result in the engine running. I must have read that one wrong somehow. Oh well.
If the pulleys/hub b/t SERIES are swapped around, then the timing might very welll be wrong. But if you swapped pulleys b/t the same series then no problem should exist. Marks on the pulleys are at -5 and -20 and not TDC as you know. Like if I take the pulley off a series four non turbo and put it on a series four turbo, the timing marks will be correct.
Buying a aftermarket pulley set from RB or Mazdatrix would solve the question of the timing marks. Or if your real good, like someone I know, you can use liquid displacement to find TDC and then make marks on the pulley for -5 and -20 using school grade math (MY kinda math!). It's a bit messy procedure and time consuming though. But dead accurate.
EDIT: The engine sounds pretty good, to me anyway. It seems to me there is SOMETHING holding the throttle plates open a bit. What? Got me. It can be something as simple as the throttle cable not have a bit of slack in it and that is holding the throttle open a bit. So go to the throttle cable and with your finger test the tension on the cable. You should be able to lift in a upwards direction on the cable, say a 1/8" and the throttle linkage should not move. Well, 1/16 to 1/8' anyway.
Or the water thermowax outfit is holding the throttle plates open a bit. Lift up on the screw that rests against the piston on the water thermowax and see if the throttle linkage move when you do that. Starte at the gap b/t the linkage and the throttle stop screw as you do that. IF the gap closes, that means the throttle linkage did move further to the closed positon and that might indicate a problem in that area.
A good question might be: does the idle drop down after the water temperature gets up to..operating temperature? That would be a clue.
MOtor sounded fine to me. Timing can't be measured by looking at a tach or listening to the purr of your engine in my humble opinion. Takes a TIMING LIGHT. A cheap one will do. No fancy advanced devices need on the timing light. Just one that pulses when connected to a lead coil and aimed at the pulley marks. Engine HOT when doing so,
And yes, Switching the key from ON to OFF and back to ON is with the engine internals still rotating. I wasn't aware that this was normal? Oh well.
I have read your thread about using liquid displacement to find TDC with the vinyl tubes. I was intending to do that today, but I got caught up with my girlfriend earlier today, so I ran out of time. I was also wondering if MMO would be ok to use? I still have some left over from a rebuild.
I thought that the throttle cable could have been too tight also, so I loosened it thinking it was a solution. No fix. A board member suggested that I remove the cable completely and turn the car over. Did just that, and the idle still hit 4k. I left it running till operating temp and still the same way, with no drop in idle. I'm beginning to suspect the thermowax. I'll do what you suggested with the thermowax and report back with my findings for you guys. Appreciate the help!
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09-08-09, 04:57 AM
#8
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I guess MMO would work. I used some two stroke oil from WalMart because it has COLOR to it and is easier to see in the tubes. That is a messy procedure but effective. Requires knowing to some extent where TDC is in GENERAL. Then filling the rotor up with fluid........then with several inches of oil in each tube, rock the pulley back and forth while watching the level of fluid in the tubes. As the fluid rises you know your still compressing the fluid. At the moment the fluid starts going down in the tubes, you know TDC has just been reached and now your moving away from TDC.
So now you rock the pulley back in the way you just came from so the fluid goes up the tube again and just starts going down. At that point you have TDC. Make a mark on the pulley opposite the fixed pin with something like nail polish. Then repeat a number of times to make sure you have the same results.
An air bubble in the housing will cause a bit of confusion so I recommend finding the TDC a couple to a few times and making sure you get the same results.
I used this method when I lost all confidence in the marks on my series four pulleys. After making my marks for TDC, I pulled that pulley off (while making sure the shaft was not turned) and installed a 1982 pulley/hub (it's marked at TDC and -20 as stock 82 timing). The TDC mark on the 82 matched perfectly with the mark I made using fluid displacement. Regained faith in my pulley marks doing that and have'nt looked back since.
So now you rock the pulley back in the way you just came from so the fluid goes up the tube again and just starts going down. At that point you have TDC. Make a mark on the pulley opposite the fixed pin with something like nail polish. Then repeat a number of times to make sure you have the same results.
An air bubble in the housing will cause a bit of confusion so I recommend finding the TDC a couple to a few times and making sure you get the same results.
I used this method when I lost all confidence in the marks on my series four pulleys. After making my marks for TDC, I pulled that pulley off (while making sure the shaft was not turned) and installed a 1982 pulley/hub (it's marked at TDC and -20 as stock 82 timing). The TDC mark on the 82 matched perfectly with the mark I made using fluid displacement. Regained faith in my pulley marks doing that and have'nt looked back since.
09-09-09, 03:34 AM
#9
About the slow to respond tach..........not to worrry. That is just a bad connection at the combination meters plugs or on the board of the combination meter. I've a 1986 that the tach won't move until I RAP on the face of the combination meter. I'm not a bit interested in fixing the problem. I can rap all day long, but it only takes one small rap and it works for the rest of the day.
My reading comprehension really must suck. You say the engine is running..........you turn the key from ON to OFF.......then back to ON and the engine still runs. When you turned the key to OFF and don't let the rpms die to zero, then when you put the key back ON the engine will still keep running. Normal condition. By rpms to zero, I don't mean the tach, I mean the physical rotation of the engine going to a dead stop. IF the physical rotation of the engine is at a dead stop, then putting the key back to ON willl not result in the engine running. I must have read that one wrong somehow. Oh well.
If the pulleys/hub b/t SERIES are swapped around, then the timing might very welll be wrong. But if you swapped pulleys b/t the same series then no problem should exist. Marks on the pulleys are at -5 and -20 and not TDC as you know. Like if I take the pulley off a series four non turbo and put it on a series four turbo, the timing marks will be correct.
Buying a aftermarket pulley set from RB or Mazdatrix would solve the question of the timing marks. Or if your real good, like someone I know, you can use liquid displacement to find TDC and then make marks on the pulley for -5 and -20 using school grade math (MY kinda math!). It's a bit messy procedure and time consuming though. But dead accurate.
EDIT: The engine sounds pretty good, to me anyway. It seems to me there is SOMETHING holding the throttle plates open a bit. What? Got me. It can be something as simple as the throttle cable not have a bit of slack in it and that is holding the throttle open a bit. So go to the throttle cable and with your finger test the tension on the cable. You should be able to lift in a upwards direction on the cable, say a 1/8" and the throttle linkage should not move. Well, 1/16 to 1/8' anyway.
Or the water thermowax outfit is holding the throttle plates open a bit. Lift up on the screw that rests against the piston on the water thermowax and see if the throttle linkage move when you do that. Starte at the gap b/t the linkage and the throttle stop screw as you do that. IF the gap closes, that means the throttle linkage did move further to the closed positon and that might indicate a problem in that area.
A good question might be: does the idle drop down after the water temperature gets up to..operating temperature? That would be a clue.
MOtor sounded fine to me. Timing can't be measured by looking at a tach or listening to the purr of your engine in my humble opinion. Takes a TIMING LIGHT. A cheap one will do. No fancy advanced devices need on the timing light. Just one that pulses when connected to a lead coil and aimed at the pulley marks. Engine HOT when doing so,
My reading comprehension really must suck. You say the engine is running..........you turn the key from ON to OFF.......then back to ON and the engine still runs. When you turned the key to OFF and don't let the rpms die to zero, then when you put the key back ON the engine will still keep running. Normal condition. By rpms to zero, I don't mean the tach, I mean the physical rotation of the engine going to a dead stop. IF the physical rotation of the engine is at a dead stop, then putting the key back to ON willl not result in the engine running. I must have read that one wrong somehow. Oh well.
If the pulleys/hub b/t SERIES are swapped around, then the timing might very welll be wrong. But if you swapped pulleys b/t the same series then no problem should exist. Marks on the pulleys are at -5 and -20 and not TDC as you know. Like if I take the pulley off a series four non turbo and put it on a series four turbo, the timing marks will be correct.
Buying a aftermarket pulley set from RB or Mazdatrix would solve the question of the timing marks. Or if your real good, like someone I know, you can use liquid displacement to find TDC and then make marks on the pulley for -5 and -20 using school grade math (MY kinda math!). It's a bit messy procedure and time consuming though. But dead accurate.
EDIT: The engine sounds pretty good, to me anyway. It seems to me there is SOMETHING holding the throttle plates open a bit. What? Got me. It can be something as simple as the throttle cable not have a bit of slack in it and that is holding the throttle open a bit. So go to the throttle cable and with your finger test the tension on the cable. You should be able to lift in a upwards direction on the cable, say a 1/8" and the throttle linkage should not move. Well, 1/16 to 1/8' anyway.
Or the water thermowax outfit is holding the throttle plates open a bit. Lift up on the screw that rests against the piston on the water thermowax and see if the throttle linkage move when you do that. Starte at the gap b/t the linkage and the throttle stop screw as you do that. IF the gap closes, that means the throttle linkage did move further to the closed positon and that might indicate a problem in that area.
A good question might be: does the idle drop down after the water temperature gets up to..operating temperature? That would be a clue.
MOtor sounded fine to me. Timing can't be measured by looking at a tach or listening to the purr of your engine in my humble opinion. Takes a TIMING LIGHT. A cheap one will do. No fancy advanced devices need on the timing light. Just one that pulses when connected to a lead coil and aimed at the pulley marks. Engine HOT when doing so,
Sorry, it must be because it's late(1:30 a.m.), but I don't understand? Do I simply undo the screw and watch for the linkage to move? Or do I have a position that I am supposed to stop at? Please elaborate and excuse my comprehension.
09-09-09, 10:07 AM
#10
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If the thermowax is a working thermowax, and the engine is cold, when you look at the throttl stop screw you sill see a gap b/t it and the throttle linkage. That is Nornal on a cold engine.
With the engine cold, and IF you see a gap b/t the throttle stop screw and the linkage, lift up on the long screw who's end rests on the thermowax's piston. When you lift up, the gap b/t the throttle stop screw and the linkage should close til the linkage touches the stop screw.
Or you might just back off the stop screw a round or two and then start the engine and see how things go. Just remember how many turns you made with the screw so you can return to that positon later if needed. The stop screw has a 8mm wrench size nut on it. A jam nut if you will. And the screw is TINY. That should help you ID the screw if your not sure where it is. It's under the intercooler.
Later today or tomorrow I'll try to take a picuture of the stop screw and the screw that rests on the end of the thermowax piston. Later.
I rattle a lot and sometimes don't make much sense. I know this by reading some of my old posts. So be it.
With the engine cold, and IF you see a gap b/t the throttle stop screw and the linkage, lift up on the long screw who's end rests on the thermowax's piston. When you lift up, the gap b/t the throttle stop screw and the linkage should close til the linkage touches the stop screw.
Or you might just back off the stop screw a round or two and then start the engine and see how things go. Just remember how many turns you made with the screw so you can return to that positon later if needed. The stop screw has a 8mm wrench size nut on it. A jam nut if you will. And the screw is TINY. That should help you ID the screw if your not sure where it is. It's under the intercooler.
Later today or tomorrow I'll try to take a picuture of the stop screw and the screw that rests on the end of the thermowax piston. Later.
I rattle a lot and sometimes don't make much sense. I know this by reading some of my old posts. So be it.
09-09-09, 11:34 AM
#11
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I'd go to AutoZone or such and rent a timing light and check the timing. IF it's off a bit, loosen the bolt/nut that holds the CAS in place and turn the CAS til the pin and mark on the pulley align. Something like the attached jpg.
I'll try to take a jpg of the throttle stop screw and what I talked about later today......tomorrow. Throttle stop screw can be recognized by it's 8mm jamnut size (wrench size) If the screw you mess with has no jamnut on it, that isn't the right screw.
If you KNow where that screw is, then back it off a couple of rounds and start the engine and see if the idle is lower when the engine is fullly warmed up.
I'll try to take a jpg of the throttle stop screw and what I talked about later today......tomorrow. Throttle stop screw can be recognized by it's 8mm jamnut size (wrench size) If the screw you mess with has no jamnut on it, that isn't the right screw.
If you KNow where that screw is, then back it off a couple of rounds and start the engine and see if the idle is lower when the engine is fullly warmed up.
09-09-09, 06:15 PM
#12
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Or tell you what. Align the first mark on the pulley with the fixed pointer on the front cover.
Then unscrew the two phillips screws on top of the CAS that hold the flat, black cover on the CAS. Remove the cover.
The two *pointers* on top of the rotor of the CAS should have one of those two opposite the Corner of the black, square reluctor device.
The jpg I attach is not perfect. I'm tool lazy to take picture. But I wrote on the jpg and pointed to the corner of the black reluctor. Make your CAS look like the picture, if it does not already. Just undo the bolt that holds the CAS in place and rotate the body of the CAS til the pointer is opposite the corner of the reluctor as described in the jpg attached.
If you do that, then the timing will certainly be within five degrees of being right, easily.
Then unscrew the two phillips screws on top of the CAS that hold the flat, black cover on the CAS. Remove the cover.
The two *pointers* on top of the rotor of the CAS should have one of those two opposite the Corner of the black, square reluctor device.
The jpg I attach is not perfect. I'm tool lazy to take picture. But I wrote on the jpg and pointed to the corner of the black reluctor. Make your CAS look like the picture, if it does not already. Just undo the bolt that holds the CAS in place and rotate the body of the CAS til the pointer is opposite the corner of the reluctor as described in the jpg attached.
If you do that, then the timing will certainly be within five degrees of being right, easily.
09-09-09, 08:15 PM
#13
Or tell you what. Align the first mark on the pulley with the fixed pointer on the front cover.
Then unscrew the two phillips screws on top of the CAS that hold the flat, black cover on the CAS. Remove the cover.
The two *pointers* on top of the rotor of the CAS should have one of those two opposite the Corner of the black, square reluctor device.
The jpg I attach is not perfect. I'm tool lazy to take picture. But I wrote on the jpg and pointed to the corner of the black reluctor. Make your CAS look like the picture, if it does not already. Just undo the bolt that holds the CAS in place and rotate the body of the CAS til the pointer is opposite the corner of the reluctor as described in the jpg attached.
If you do that, then the timing will certainly be within five degrees of being right, easily.
Then unscrew the two phillips screws on top of the CAS that hold the flat, black cover on the CAS. Remove the cover.
The two *pointers* on top of the rotor of the CAS should have one of those two opposite the Corner of the black, square reluctor device.
The jpg I attach is not perfect. I'm tool lazy to take picture. But I wrote on the jpg and pointed to the corner of the black reluctor. Make your CAS look like the picture, if it does not already. Just undo the bolt that holds the CAS in place and rotate the body of the CAS til the pointer is opposite the corner of the reluctor as described in the jpg attached.
If you do that, then the timing will certainly be within five degrees of being right, easily.
09-09-09, 08:49 PM
#14
I found this picture of yours in a different thread. So in relation to the thermowax, I'm looking for a gap between the linkage and the stop screw?
As far as the fast idle cam, it sits on the cam roller, in between both marks on the fast idle cam, cold. Correct? Or should the fast idle cam be positioned to the cam roller at a specific mark when cold?
As far as the fast idle cam, it sits on the cam roller, in between both marks on the fast idle cam, cold. Correct? Or should the fast idle cam be positioned to the cam roller at a specific mark when cold?
09-11-09, 07:18 AM
#16
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Yes, youir looking for a gap b/t the stop screw and linkagag. IF the car is fully hot, that gap should not exist. IF the car is cold..a gap will be there. A gap means the throttle plates are not fully closed.
If your engine is cold, and the gap exists, then watch the gap and with your finger, lift up on the screw with spring that is touching the piston on the thermowax. The gap b/t the linkage and the stop screw should disappear and the screw and linkage should touch.
One thing I've noticed in the past. IF you screw that long screw with sprinig on the thermowax all the way clockwise, that will seperate the cam/roller of the thermowax and the linkage and stop screw gap will disappear. Then start the engine and get it hot. If the idle is now lower, part of your problem was the thermowax not set right.
If your engine is cold, and the gap exists, then watch the gap and with your finger, lift up on the screw with spring that is touching the piston on the thermowax. The gap b/t the linkage and the stop screw should disappear and the screw and linkage should touch.
One thing I've noticed in the past. IF you screw that long screw with sprinig on the thermowax all the way clockwise, that will seperate the cam/roller of the thermowax and the linkage and stop screw gap will disappear. Then start the engine and get it hot. If the idle is now lower, part of your problem was the thermowax not set right.
09-11-09, 07:44 AM
#17
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To prove your thermowax works, you could get a BOILING tea pot full of water, and pour the water over the body of the thermowax (the piston area especially). You should be able to see the piston extend and that extension will seperate the cam and roller of the thermowax and the gap b/t the stop screw and linkage should cease to exist.
Someone in the past life of that throttle body might have played with the screws and ....screwed up the right settings. Can't tell on a fifteen yr old car.
If the throttle stop screw is touching the linkage already when the car is cold, then back the screw off a round or maybe to, and then try to idle the engine.
A gap b/t the stop screw and the linkage usually indicates the throttle plates are being held open a touch .......which makes the engine idle a bit faster.
You can remove the intercooler and install PVC to replace the intercooler so you can work on the engine while it idles. You can see and adjust things that way. See last jpg.
Someone in the past life of that throttle body might have played with the screws and ....screwed up the right settings. Can't tell on a fifteen yr old car.
If the throttle stop screw is touching the linkage already when the car is cold, then back the screw off a round or maybe to, and then try to idle the engine.
A gap b/t the stop screw and the linkage usually indicates the throttle plates are being held open a touch .......which makes the engine idle a bit faster.
You can remove the intercooler and install PVC to replace the intercooler so you can work on the engine while it idles. You can see and adjust things that way. See last jpg.
09-11-09, 08:23 AM
#18
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Try this thread where most of those picutures came from: https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...dle+stop+screw
09-14-09, 06:39 PM
#22
Yes, youir looking for a gap b/t the stop screw and linkagag. IF the car is fully hot, that gap should not exist. IF the car is cold..a gap will be there. A gap means the throttle plates are not fully closed.
If your engine is cold, and the gap exists, then watch the gap and with your finger, lift up on the screw with spring that is touching the piston on the thermowax. The gap b/t the linkage and the stop screw should disappear and the screw and linkage should touch.
One thing I've noticed in the past. IF you screw that long screw with sprinig on the thermowax all the way clockwise, that will seperate the cam/roller of the thermowax and the linkage and stop screw gap will disappear. Then start the engine and get it hot. If the idle is now lower, part of your problem was the thermowax not set right.
If your engine is cold, and the gap exists, then watch the gap and with your finger, lift up on the screw with spring that is touching the piston on the thermowax. The gap b/t the linkage and the stop screw should disappear and the screw and linkage should touch.
One thing I've noticed in the past. IF you screw that long screw with sprinig on the thermowax all the way clockwise, that will seperate the cam/roller of the thermowax and the linkage and stop screw gap will disappear. Then start the engine and get it hot. If the idle is now lower, part of your problem was the thermowax not set right.
09-14-09, 11:32 PM
#23
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What happens if you LIFT UP on the screw or actually the bracket the screw passes thru? Gap stays the same? See post #17 and the second to the last picture with the words "lift here".
IF you lift up, and the gap stays the same, then the thermowax was not the thing holding the throttle plates open a touch.
Truth be told, I'm guessing the throttle plates are being held open a touch, and the water thermowax would be a known culprit for that.
Anyway you can remove the two bolts holding the intake duct off and remove that duct and actually look at the throttle plates to see if they are closed. Sorry, can't think of the right name for that metal duct. It's the one that the intercooler connects to and has a air temp sensor screwed into it.
Usually the gap does not exist after the water temp is up to normal temp. Why you have a gap is???? unknown to me right now. I'd remove that metal duct and take a look at the throttle plates.
Try lifting up on that bkt I mentioned and see what happens. By the way, I think you know aobut the water thermowax cam and the roller. They should be seperating when the engine is hot or you lift up on that bkt I mentioned. Matter of fact, if the screw is turned all the way clockwise that roll pin and cam should be seperating.
IF you lift up, and the gap stays the same, then the thermowax was not the thing holding the throttle plates open a touch.
Truth be told, I'm guessing the throttle plates are being held open a touch, and the water thermowax would be a known culprit for that.
Anyway you can remove the two bolts holding the intake duct off and remove that duct and actually look at the throttle plates to see if they are closed. Sorry, can't think of the right name for that metal duct. It's the one that the intercooler connects to and has a air temp sensor screwed into it.
Usually the gap does not exist after the water temp is up to normal temp. Why you have a gap is???? unknown to me right now. I'd remove that metal duct and take a look at the throttle plates.
Try lifting up on that bkt I mentioned and see what happens. By the way, I think you know aobut the water thermowax cam and the roller. They should be seperating when the engine is hot or you lift up on that bkt I mentioned. Matter of fact, if the screw is turned all the way clockwise that roll pin and cam should be seperating.
09-15-09, 06:49 PM
#24
What happens if you LIFT UP on the screw or actually the bracket the screw passes thru? Gap stays the same? See post #17 and the second to the last picture with the words "lift here".
IF you lift up, and the gap stays the same, then the thermowax was not the thing holding the throttle plates open a touch.
Truth be told, I'm guessing the throttle plates are being held open a touch, and the water thermowax would be a known culprit for that.
Anyway you can remove the two bolts holding the intake duct off and remove that duct and actually look at the throttle plates to see if they are closed. Sorry, can't think of the right name for that metal duct. It's the one that the intercooler connects to and has a air temp sensor screwed into it.
Usually the gap does not exist after the water temp is up to normal temp. Why you have a gap is???? unknown to me right now. I'd remove that metal duct and take a look at the throttle plates.
Try lifting up on that bkt I mentioned and see what happens. By the way, I think you know aobut the water thermowax cam and the roller. They should be seperating when the engine is hot or you lift up on that bkt I mentioned. Matter of fact, if the screw is turned all the way clockwise that roll pin and cam should be seperating.
IF you lift up, and the gap stays the same, then the thermowax was not the thing holding the throttle plates open a touch.
Truth be told, I'm guessing the throttle plates are being held open a touch, and the water thermowax would be a known culprit for that.
Anyway you can remove the two bolts holding the intake duct off and remove that duct and actually look at the throttle plates to see if they are closed. Sorry, can't think of the right name for that metal duct. It's the one that the intercooler connects to and has a air temp sensor screwed into it.
Usually the gap does not exist after the water temp is up to normal temp. Why you have a gap is???? unknown to me right now. I'd remove that metal duct and take a look at the throttle plates.
Try lifting up on that bkt I mentioned and see what happens. By the way, I think you know aobut the water thermowax cam and the roller. They should be seperating when the engine is hot or you lift up on that bkt I mentioned. Matter of fact, if the screw is turned all the way clockwise that roll pin and cam should be seperating.
Idle has returned to about 1500 rpms, but that is with the BAC screw all the way in. I don't think this is normal for a rebuild?
09-15-09, 08:47 PM
#25
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Yeah, the stock metal elbow. I couldn't remember the name the other day.
Does the linkage now touch the stop screw??? If so, then back it off a round (stop screw), and try to idle again. Engine hot.
Actually the 1500rpm has traits of the cam and roller not seperating on the thermowax. Then again it could be another thing.
Before doing the above, try getting the engine hot, then remove the elect plug from the BAC and see if anything changes. IF not, put the plug back on and try another thing.
Your making progress. From 5000 rpm idle down to 1500. I assume the 1500 is with the engine HOT. If not, then get the engine hot and see if it drops some more. It was probably hot though, so ignore this remark if it does not fit.
If you make a PVC outfit as shown in one of the jpgs above, then you can run the engine with the intercooler off and make adjustments while running (post #17, last jpg).
Does the linkage now touch the stop screw??? If so, then back it off a round (stop screw), and try to idle again. Engine hot.
Actually the 1500rpm has traits of the cam and roller not seperating on the thermowax. Then again it could be another thing.
Before doing the above, try getting the engine hot, then remove the elect plug from the BAC and see if anything changes. IF not, put the plug back on and try another thing.
Your making progress. From 5000 rpm idle down to 1500. I assume the 1500 is with the engine HOT. If not, then get the engine hot and see if it drops some more. It was probably hot though, so ignore this remark if it does not fit.
If you make a PVC outfit as shown in one of the jpgs above, then you can run the engine with the intercooler off and make adjustments while running (post #17, last jpg).