Does anyone tow with their FC?
11-25-04, 04:06 PM
#1
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
Does anyone tow with their FC?
Does anyone tow anything else with their FC? I'm looking at picking up a parts car, and while I can borrow a car/truck to get it where I need to take it, I'm interested in the possibility of picking up "project cars" from farther away (and especially cars that don't run).
Is it even worth considering towing with the FC (S4 NA)? I'd probably be towing other FC-ish cars (so 3000+ lbs with trailer). I suspect this is a stupid idea, but just thought I'd run it by people.
-=Russ=-
Is it even worth considering towing with the FC (S4 NA)? I'd probably be towing other FC-ish cars (so 3000+ lbs with trailer). I suspect this is a stupid idea, but just thought I'd run it by people.
-=Russ=-
11-25-04, 04:17 PM
#3
Define 'Cynical'
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Gonna' whip out the FC manual on this one... "Towing A Trailer - We do not advise using this vehicle for trailer-towing purposes". That's all it says. It also says to never surpass the GAWR (gross axle weight rating) or the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) which, if I remember correctly, are pretty low.
11-25-04, 04:33 PM
#4
Is that thing Turbo?
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very bad idea if you ask me, first of all it'll take all day with the amount of low end torque we have especially s4 N/As, and my fc sags in the rear with anything more than my speakers in the back
11-25-04, 06:45 PM
#7
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I'd get a beater pickup truck. A $500 special. In fact mine is perfect. I will replace it soon though. I bought a $600 Ford F-150. Just a plain truck. 300 L6 4 speed manual trans. It's been a great beater truck for the last three years. I've had no mechanical issues since I replaced the engine with a $200 junk yard engine. That inline six tows very well. It has gobs of low end torque. I think an old Ford would be the best way to go. Plus they are very easy to work on.
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11-25-04, 08:05 PM
#8
Some of you just don't know what you're talking about.
I started out buying local 7s and towing them home to part out or repair and resell. At the time, I just had a 7. So me and a friend would drive out to get the other car with a 25 foot chain. The FC has NO problems towing any light to medium size vehicle. I did this probably 20 times, before I finally bought a truck. Now, I never had a hitch on the 7, but I have seen them, and I even have one on hand from a partscar, professionally made, very strong.
Someone give me a good reason that an FC couldnt tow **with little or no tongue/suspension load presented to teh car**. My s-10 for example. I towed no less than 100 cars with that little truck, easily thousands of miles all over the southeast and virginia, through mountains and such. IT was no powerhorse with the little 2.8, but it did the job, I never even burned out a clutch in 3 years. That engine makes 125hp, uses a weak stock clutch, has suck *** brakes front and rear (even when new), and the chassis of the truck weighs as much or more than a 7.
So, it could be said that any 7 would have a better power to weight ratio than almost any truck out there, better brakes in stock form (our brakes are track worthy), and many of us have upgraded clutches. So long as you dont present the suspension with extra load from a heavy trailer tongue, there is NO reason a 7 can't tow as well as most medium or small trucks.
IF anybody needs this professional hitch I have for the FC, let me know. I was thinking of putting it on ebay, as I dont need it.
I started out buying local 7s and towing them home to part out or repair and resell. At the time, I just had a 7. So me and a friend would drive out to get the other car with a 25 foot chain. The FC has NO problems towing any light to medium size vehicle. I did this probably 20 times, before I finally bought a truck. Now, I never had a hitch on the 7, but I have seen them, and I even have one on hand from a partscar, professionally made, very strong.
Someone give me a good reason that an FC couldnt tow **with little or no tongue/suspension load presented to teh car**. My s-10 for example. I towed no less than 100 cars with that little truck, easily thousands of miles all over the southeast and virginia, through mountains and such. IT was no powerhorse with the little 2.8, but it did the job, I never even burned out a clutch in 3 years. That engine makes 125hp, uses a weak stock clutch, has suck *** brakes front and rear (even when new), and the chassis of the truck weighs as much or more than a 7.
So, it could be said that any 7 would have a better power to weight ratio than almost any truck out there, better brakes in stock form (our brakes are track worthy), and many of us have upgraded clutches. So long as you dont present the suspension with extra load from a heavy trailer tongue, there is NO reason a 7 can't tow as well as most medium or small trucks.
IF anybody needs this professional hitch I have for the FC, let me know. I was thinking of putting it on ebay, as I dont need it.
11-25-04, 08:15 PM
#9
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If that's true, why would Mazda say it's a big no-no. It's a sports car, not a tow truck. HP has nothing really to do with it. Torque is what you need to pull well. Not to mention all of the stress you put on the drivetrain that doesn't need to be there. An old full sized truck is built much better to handle the stresses of towing and hauling. Especailly when you use a tow chain and pull the slack out with the towed vehicle while driving. It puts incredible stress on the ring and pinion.
11-25-04, 08:25 PM
#10
well the chassis and suspension isnt built to take that much weight in the back. here try an experiment: measure the tire/fender clearance, measure the height of the body off the ground, and put a level on your car while your at it. tow a couple cars, then measure all that after. Im pretty damn sure there will be a difference. now towing tires or engines, that can definitely be done.
11-25-04, 08:26 PM
#11
Lives on the Forum
I've towed another FC with my FC.
It got hot pretty quick.
Although the tow distance was about 5 miles, I do not recommend it unless it's an emergency.
Get really friendly with someone with a truck - your FC will thank you.
-Ted
It got hot pretty quick.
Although the tow distance was about 5 miles, I do not recommend it unless it's an emergency.
Get really friendly with someone with a truck - your FC will thank you.
-Ted
11-25-04, 08:38 PM
#12
I think that a nice turboII with a good tow dolly is just about the PERFECT tow vehicle there is!
BIG 4 piston brakes, nice wide tires, big clutch, beefy drivetrain... adequate torque.
horsepower matters LOTS when towing, low end torque only matters if you're driving around in town.
for in the mountains or ANYTHING else, as long as you're willing to use revs, torque matters little. That said, even turboII's have TONS of midrange torque, so I don't see how the torque argument works here.
the manual reccomends against towing for warranty issues, probably. The manual reccomends against towing with my b2200 diesel, that comes factory with a trailer hitch!
BIG 4 piston brakes, nice wide tires, big clutch, beefy drivetrain... adequate torque.
horsepower matters LOTS when towing, low end torque only matters if you're driving around in town.
for in the mountains or ANYTHING else, as long as you're willing to use revs, torque matters little. That said, even turboII's have TONS of midrange torque, so I don't see how the torque argument works here.
the manual reccomends against towing for warranty issues, probably. The manual reccomends against towing with my b2200 diesel, that comes factory with a trailer hitch!
11-25-04, 09:52 PM
#14
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
Thank you, Kevin. That's exactly what I was looking for, since that's basically what I'm looking to do (haul parts cars, sell parts, rebuild parts, collect enough pieces for a Turbo 2...).
So you just had a friend sit in the trailing '7, and steer/brake? Or did you use some sort of tow dolly? I was thinking of rigging something up with a tow unit, little or no tongue weight. Preferably something that could tow a car entirely off the ground, for those that aren't in good rolling condition.
-=Russ=-
So you just had a friend sit in the trailing '7, and steer/brake? Or did you use some sort of tow dolly? I was thinking of rigging something up with a tow unit, little or no tongue weight. Preferably something that could tow a car entirely off the ground, for those that aren't in good rolling condition.
-=Russ=-
11-25-04, 10:52 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Terrh
I think that a nice turboII with a good tow dolly is just about the PERFECT tow vehicle there is!
BIG 4 piston brakes, nice wide tires, big clutch, beefy drivetrain... adequate torque.
horsepower matters LOTS when towing, low end torque only matters if you're driving around in town.
for in the mountains or ANYTHING else, as long as you're willing to use revs, torque matters little. That said, even turboII's have TONS of midrange torque, so I don't see how the torque argument works here.
the manual reccomends against towing for warranty issues, probably. The manual reccomends against towing with my b2200 diesel, that comes factory with a trailer hitch!
BIG 4 piston brakes, nice wide tires, big clutch, beefy drivetrain... adequate torque.
horsepower matters LOTS when towing, low end torque only matters if you're driving around in town.
for in the mountains or ANYTHING else, as long as you're willing to use revs, torque matters little. That said, even turboII's have TONS of midrange torque, so I don't see how the torque argument works here.
the manual reccomends against towing for warranty issues, probably. The manual reccomends against towing with my b2200 diesel, that comes factory with a trailer hitch!
11-25-04, 10:57 PM
#17
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
(Ames near Marshalltown)
More or less. If you're ever in the area, drop me a ring. Some of us have semi-regular "drive at high speed through the few winding roads in the area" runs - I'd love to see some more '7s show up (though there probably won't be much for the remainder of the winter... ice & snow & all).
-=Russ=-
More or less. If you're ever in the area, drop me a ring. Some of us have semi-regular "drive at high speed through the few winding roads in the area" runs - I'd love to see some more '7s show up (though there probably won't be much for the remainder of the winter... ice & snow & all).
-=Russ=-
Last edited by Syonyk; 11-25-04 at 11:00 PM. Reason: Clarification
11-25-04, 11:02 PM
#19
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by inflatablepets
So, Are you going to keep the engine around redline while towing a car in the mountains? I think not. Remember, Keep the engine revs up near peak output and cavitate the waterpump. Last time I checked this was not a good thing.
And 4000-5000 RPM won't cavitate the water pump. Ask the masses of (NA) people who have had their tranny blow out, leaving them with only 4th gear. The cars make it home fine running at that kind of RPM the entire way. Not fuel efficient, but since when are we?
-=Russ=-
11-26-04, 01:40 AM
#22
I think some of you cannot read.
The reason that mazda places a no towing or hauling restriction on the FC is because of the suspension setup. It is not set up to allow any significant load on the rearend. Like I said above, there is no reason not to tow, so long as it doesnt present a tongue load on the rear suspension.
For those of you not familiar with towing, tongue load is the weight that is transferred to the vehicle through the hitch. Something like a chain, transfers no tongue weight at all, so its strictly a question of your car being able to pull the other one, which we know it will without any problem. Something like a tow bar, again, no tongue weight...the bar is chained to the front of the towed car, and just basically pulls the front end around to keep it in line. Even a tow dolly only presents maybe 50-100lb of tongue weight, little of nothing (think about a box and set of subs in the back of the car). You obviously can not put a tandem axle 16' car hauler behind it though, those present thousands of pounds of tongue weight to the tow vehicle. Something like a 4x6 utility trailer will never cause a problem, nor will a tow dolly or tow bar and a midsize car in tow.
Again, our cars have more than ample midrange power to tow 3000lb around all day long. Anything over about 3000rpm does just fine. I used to sit mine around 3500-4500 and cruise there, which is no stress to the rotary engine or the car. This is about equivalent to what your engine is doing on the interstate around 100mph in 5th.
Our cars have plenty of brakes, more than 95% of the cars and trucks on the road today. We have ample power and a decent drivetrain. The only point to even consider worrying about is the NA guys with weak trannies. A turbo II is the dream tow vehicle. Good brakes, relatively lightweight, excellent midrange power, beefy clutch and drivetrain, and boost to help you climb hills.
All bullshit aside, I'd feel more confident towing with a *well maintained, proper running condition* 5sp FC than I would my big *** denali truck (current towtruck). With those big trucks you have to worry about wind blowing you around the road, and every semi you pass affects you. You have to worry about overheating and tearing up auto trannies, not a concern with manual gearboxes. And the t2 would honestly get as good or better mileage than the big truck would, most big trucks get around 15mpg cruising, 10-12 towing.
The reason that mazda places a no towing or hauling restriction on the FC is because of the suspension setup. It is not set up to allow any significant load on the rearend. Like I said above, there is no reason not to tow, so long as it doesnt present a tongue load on the rear suspension.
For those of you not familiar with towing, tongue load is the weight that is transferred to the vehicle through the hitch. Something like a chain, transfers no tongue weight at all, so its strictly a question of your car being able to pull the other one, which we know it will without any problem. Something like a tow bar, again, no tongue weight...the bar is chained to the front of the towed car, and just basically pulls the front end around to keep it in line. Even a tow dolly only presents maybe 50-100lb of tongue weight, little of nothing (think about a box and set of subs in the back of the car). You obviously can not put a tandem axle 16' car hauler behind it though, those present thousands of pounds of tongue weight to the tow vehicle. Something like a 4x6 utility trailer will never cause a problem, nor will a tow dolly or tow bar and a midsize car in tow.
Again, our cars have more than ample midrange power to tow 3000lb around all day long. Anything over about 3000rpm does just fine. I used to sit mine around 3500-4500 and cruise there, which is no stress to the rotary engine or the car. This is about equivalent to what your engine is doing on the interstate around 100mph in 5th.
Our cars have plenty of brakes, more than 95% of the cars and trucks on the road today. We have ample power and a decent drivetrain. The only point to even consider worrying about is the NA guys with weak trannies. A turbo II is the dream tow vehicle. Good brakes, relatively lightweight, excellent midrange power, beefy clutch and drivetrain, and boost to help you climb hills.
All bullshit aside, I'd feel more confident towing with a *well maintained, proper running condition* 5sp FC than I would my big *** denali truck (current towtruck). With those big trucks you have to worry about wind blowing you around the road, and every semi you pass affects you. You have to worry about overheating and tearing up auto trannies, not a concern with manual gearboxes. And the t2 would honestly get as good or better mileage than the big truck would, most big trucks get around 15mpg cruising, 10-12 towing.
11-26-04, 01:44 AM
#23
there is pros and cons to everything, the ring gear and half shafts may be able to pull the car around fairly well but one good jolt while towing could snap them in half, though they do take a beating but the cars are light to begin with, i would just much rather tow with a truck than with my FC just because it wasn't designed for it.
but then again you probably have spare T2 parts lying around up the ying yang....
but then again you probably have spare T2 parts lying around up the ying yang....
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-26-04 at 01:47 AM.
11-26-04, 02:14 AM
#24
No offense, but you seem to know an awful lot about everything, not to have been around here very long. How do you have all this information locked away in your head, that the rest of us are deprived of? You talk about a lot of ideas and such, but what can you say to those of us who have actually DONE the stuff we talk about?
Oh, to answer your question, I have never tore up a rear or an axle, on a turbo or nonturbo. The only thing I've ever broken, drivetrain wise, was an NA tranny, after about 2 years of duty behind a modified turbo engine in the 250-275 range. These cars are not as fragile as some are led to believe.
Hell, when I was younger and poor, and all I had were 2 fc's, I moved our entire house...twice, in the back of fc's. Including washer, dryer, king waterbed, etc. I've also hauled 16 80lb bags of rocks from lowes to the house once, and I used to regularly haul 4-5 core blocks between here and raleigh NC (about 5 hours each way) to a rebuilder I knew there. Through the curvy mountain interstate pass between here and asheville nc, which most cars drive at 60 or so, and I could still drive spiritedly with no issues at all, even overloading the car by a few hundred lb.
Of course all the above activities were performed with an old beater FC that I didnt care the least bit about the already destroyed interior and body.
Oh, to answer your question, I have never tore up a rear or an axle, on a turbo or nonturbo. The only thing I've ever broken, drivetrain wise, was an NA tranny, after about 2 years of duty behind a modified turbo engine in the 250-275 range. These cars are not as fragile as some are led to believe.
Hell, when I was younger and poor, and all I had were 2 fc's, I moved our entire house...twice, in the back of fc's. Including washer, dryer, king waterbed, etc. I've also hauled 16 80lb bags of rocks from lowes to the house once, and I used to regularly haul 4-5 core blocks between here and raleigh NC (about 5 hours each way) to a rebuilder I knew there. Through the curvy mountain interstate pass between here and asheville nc, which most cars drive at 60 or so, and I could still drive spiritedly with no issues at all, even overloading the car by a few hundred lb.
Of course all the above activities were performed with an old beater FC that I didnt care the least bit about the already destroyed interior and body.
11-26-04, 11:38 AM
#25
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
I'll trust those who have done this stuff over those who theorize. We're not driving glass cars...
Kevin - how did you tow the cars? Did you put a hitch on and use a tow dolly, or did you rig something up to the tow rings, or did you have somebody ride in the trailing car & steer/brake?
-=Russ=-
Kevin - how did you tow the cars? Did you put a hitch on and use a tow dolly, or did you rig something up to the tow rings, or did you have somebody ride in the trailing car & steer/brake?
-=Russ=-