i wish i had 200 bucks to spend on a ****** oil pressure guage i can get at autozone for 15...

 

Well I like to pay for quality. I also spent another $200 on an blitz electric water temp gauge. Good investment if you ask me. That's why I bought them

 

HOLY deja vu, I just had an argument with reTed about the exsistance of these items on the vehicle.. I guess I was right.. Haltech reccomends one of these be fit to your lead coil test wire ( the black one) to clean up high speed spiking and noise.. Just an FYI for those using an E6X.

as a comparison the OEM guage on my 91' is very close to my Defi D link guage.. but I think the 'closeness or lack of ' would be a function of what kind of shape your sensor systme was in..

 

it probably just buffers the signal from the oil pressure sender so the guage reacts slower and also protect the guage from high voltage spikes. the purpose of a condenser is to suck up residual voltage.

 

Damn, you're still doing drugs?

That particular capacitor (which is what most people call them nowdays) is for the oil pressure sensor.
Does the oil pressure sensor have anything to do with the ignition coils?
NO.

There's another one for the trailing coils pack that supresses RFI that can be induces by the switching circuit.
I did state this in the other thread.
I guess you had a problem reading that too.
Does this have anything to do with the LEADING coil?
NO.

So, although you think you're correct, there is no stock capacitor on the LEADING coil, which you seem to like to claim even though you are wrong.
Why don't you just admit you were wrong???

Come on dude...PWN3D mean anything to you?


-Ted

 

LOL .. somehow I knew you'd come running..

Fact is , condenser is still used as a common description, maybe not in the US but in the commonwealth it is. Any eng. i've mentioned the term to knew it right away, So this just means your norrow of mind, nothing else.

Fact is , Haltech reccomends a condensor ( funny thiers that word again that no one uses as reported by you ) on the leading coil to suppress noise. period..

Fact is, until someone explaied what a 'condensor' was to you was, all you did up till then in the topic was troll and flame.

Fact is I never assumed thier was an OEM condensor on the leading coil, only that the car had OEM condensors. so you better call up Haltech and let them know you 'owned' them, since I was going by what they said to me.

someone please tell me how to block a user.. I'm getting tired of ted here butting into everything...


hijack over.


my original question before revolved around the use of aftermarket grounding systmes, not the HKS style of round earth systems but the powered digital systems that buffer and filter the ground lines. I've never taken one apart so I don't know what is actually inside one, however.. if it's built the way i hope it is, then pluggin in the conesor line from the leading coil may improve dwell time charge at high rpm and reduce overall noise in the system. However not being a electrical eng. I'd need to confirm this. if so then the othet two could be wired into the ground systemas well..

 

i have a question about this

if you put in a aftermarket gauge do you still need this condensor? or could it be taken off and thrown out?

 

condenser= capacitor. it is not a commonly used term (at least in the US). the only context i can think of, and this may explain a lot, is in points ignition systems, where a condenser is used to amplify the charge across the points.

I dont always agree with Ted, but he is right here.
saying that the car has OEM condensers as a basis for an excuse to put one on the coil is a bit bogus. you are basically arguing over semantics. a condenser is a capacitor. there are about 10,000 capacitors on a stock rx7. one of them is called a condenser in the wiring diagram. wow, big deal. probably a 70 year old engineer wrote that particular labe or something.

to answer your 'question':
yes, a capacitor on the leading coil wire will clean up noise, and depending on size, help to amplify the spark. however, try going to your local radio shack and asking for a condenser. they will have no idea what the **** you are talking about. ask for a cap and they'll show you a whole drawer of them.
Another thing to consider is whether the Haltech manual mentions a size for this cap. Capacitors come in sizes anywhere from 10^-12 to 1 Farads. a 1-pico farad isnt gonna do ****, a 1 farad will turn your coil into a puddle. get the idea?

pat

 

Nope. That condensor is only related to the stock gauge so an aftermarket gauge will have nothing connected to it or the stock gauge. I'm running fine without it, but then again my stock gauge doesnt work.

 

aftermarket guage probably has a built in filter circuit (read: condenser, if you want)

pat

 

sorry to be a nuisance, but does anyone have a pic of it hooked up? i actually noticed that mine is disconnected and i wanted to see one connected properly. looks to me like something that just gets grounded, but still thought i would ask.

 

yes, hooks in to the harness on one end, and then the tab on the cap gets grounded. i believe it is grounded on top of the rotorhousing with the injectors? not sure, i always usually pull it off and throw it away anyway.

pat

 

Hey, I do a keyword search on my nick every once in a while...

Let's reference back to the original thread...

https://www.rx7club.com/haltech-forum-62/ignition-condensor-361794/

Now, unless my comprehension of the English language is that twisted, you're asking how this "condensor" compares to the "OEM condensor".

I then ask in the above thread what your mean by "primary" coil.
Cause, it could mean LEADING coil or the PRIMARY coil windings.
You never did give me an answer to this, and your subsequent replies seem to imply you were talking about the LEADING coil.
So, back to my statement, there is no stock OEM condensor on the stock OEM leading coil.

I knew what a "condensor" was.
I wanted to make sure we were on the same page, and we were talking about the same thing.
I asked the question for confirmation, but you seem to avoid the question entirely and never really answered my question.


I've never heard of this recommendation until now.
Can you post the email or schematic of how they recommend doing this?

Now, you got an English comprehension problem.
I wasn't looking for a "troll or flame".
I dunno how you interpret my replies as such.
You seem to think I have a person vendetta against you - sorry, you're not that special.
In fact, in this thread, you still insult me.


Read your own quote above.
It implies the stock OEM condensors have some sorta filtering capacity on the leading coil, which I have pointed out there was no such thing.
In fact, the condensor on the trailing coil is about as distant as a connection possible in this case.
Which all points out that you had a misconception that the leading coil had some kinda noise filter on it.


You seem to like to point out that you know more than I do.
I figured it out by myself.
I'm sure you can figure it out yourself in due time.


Somehow I doubt this.


And, my point is these things are overpriced waste of money.
Do you even know how a condensor or a capacitor works?
Why don't you inform the ignorant on how a condensor would help filter noise in a grounding system?
Since you think they are worth it?

How does the condensor help dwell time since the ignitor does all the solid-state processing to control dwell in the first place?

How does noise affect ignition spark performance?

And lastly, how does a fancy grounding kit help the coil?


-Ted

 

actually, ted, a capacitor does help filter high frequency and improve charge time. i fiugured you would know this.... you can think of a capacitor as a 'balloon' for charge. it absorbs high and low spikes and keeps the charge relatively constant. as for high frequency, it is all absorbed by the cap, since it isnt enough to 'fill' the balloon any, so it doesnt come through the other side. a capacitor on the ground side works just the same, in fact better. electrons flow from negative to positive anyway, so it is obviously helpful to have a cap on the ground side of a major draw, because it makes a large amount of charge instantly available.

how does noise affect spark performance? well, a coil works by producing a magnetic field, which is based on changes in current. if the input current is a noisy signal, it can make the field fluctuate, which changes the spark magnitude.

a cap will help dwell time by holding a big charge available to the coil, so that it charges at once. since the magnitude of the magnetic field is proportional to dI/dt (change in current/ time), the faster it charges, the bigger spark it makes.

sorry if all this is a bit hard to understand or crudely explained, i just gb from a friend's party......
its all correct, tho, i didnt drink that much.

pat

 

one more thing to add, of course, is that you can get a capacitor at radio shack for a dollar that will do just as good a job as a $100 japanese ricer fancy ground kit.

oh, and one more.... the above is essentially how aftermarket CDI systems work, with a bit of extra refinement, of course.

 

Ok, let me see if my memory can still work from my old electronics courses...

The cap (short for capacitor) doesn't really care what is + and what is -, unless we're talking about polarized caps, but it really doesn't matter in this particular case, cause NP caps will also work.

The caps work only in voltage potential.
So, as long as there's a voltage differential, it'll charge up to that voltage potential.
So, if we induce a bad ground or ground float, what happens to the cap?
IIRC, I don't think the cap does anything.

In reference to ground, the cap should not do anything, right?
That was my point about "installing a cap on the ground circuit".

Let's look at the two possibilities of installing a cap in a (ground) circuit.
In series, the cap acts as a low-frequency filter.
Do this in a DCV circuit, and you get no DCV passing through the cap due to DCV = 0Hz.
In parallel, the cap turns into a damping circuit if there is pulses and spike in the DCV circuit.
But, this is purely in reference to the power or + side of the voltage potential?
It really should not matter in reference to ground?

If my poor memory has failed me and my above statements are incorrect, I apologize in advance.


-Ted

 

this is the answer i was after.. thanks. in one of my final statments from the posts that ted so kindly used to justify his exsistance, I was going to try to find a .5mf, 30 or 40KVa cap.. ? is this 'good' or is there a different spec I should try to find that may be more advantageous.

 

you are looking at it differently thats all. a cap can be put on the ground side of a DC circuit to bring the ground to full potential. basically, if the ground is imperfect, you get a bottleneck effect when there is a big change in current... the ground cant keep up wiht the change. if you put a cap there, then there is a readily available source of charge, so that there is no hesitation.

Also, a cap will work with DC. In DC it is merely a storage device. AC is where all the filtering effects really come into play. my example above, though, uses the DC storage properties of the cap to an advantage. i will elaborate more tomorrow, gotta go to bed.

doridori: to do any good, you want something on the order of .001f-.05f. any bigger and you risk hurting something, smaller wont do much. IMPORTANT: you want a cap with a voltage rating as close to the used voltage as possible, in this case 12V. usually it is good to err on the high side some, and 16V caps are quite common. what i'd say you want is something like a 5mf 16V cap. this is just a guess with no real data, though.

pat

 

1) we arent putting it on the - side due to any intricacies of the cap...just because its convenient and its a little more effective than the + side.
2) yes it will charge up to the voltage potential, and no there isnt any potential difference between ground and the - side when the coil is static. but when it is charging, and especially when it is discharging, which is the most important time, there is a potential difference, and the cap helps to speed the change, making a bigger spark like i said before.

3) i was kinda drunk last night and i sounded like a know it all...lol... i do know a lot about this stuff, but it is possible that i could be off on some of it...

pat

 

even drunk your the dude.. thanks, 16v is allot easier to find then 40Kv !! hell rdioshack may even have it .. I should be so lucky!

 

ok hold on.. where ddi you get the notion that you wanted a 40kV rated cap? because there is an application for that... i may have misunderstood what you are trying to do...

pat