Detonation from just over idle... Have a race in 9 hours - really need HELP
05-30-11, 07:58 AM
#26
talking head
first i've heard of timing the CAS late and i have never had any issues using the 5atdc mark.
and the timing mark is still in the window for the final CAS or dizzy twist with the timing light
ultimately the timing will always end up the same with either method
its just that if you do it as a noob at the 5 atdc it is often a 50/50 bet if it drops in the right tooth or back one
myself have stabbed dead about eleventy billion of them and dont really have any issue with it as i know well enough by eye with CAS and dizzy
BTW
if you actually have the CAS cover on ( the right way up ) and you pull the bung,, if you have stabbed it right the G tooth is visible under the bung,,,, thats what it is for
also,, if you align up the CAS dots on the gear ,, you will see the G tooth is through already,, and its ready no2 Ne tooth
05-30-11, 12:36 PM
#28
the issues you're referring to Bumpstart sound like CAS wiring issues. microtech changed the wiring harnesses around a few times and some were shielded poorly from my experiences. i have also seen plenty of bad connections to the CAS wiring.
but you could be right, i do notice that the microtech is very touchy with old plugs, install new ones and the problem cars start right up and i never could figure out why, as if the coils feeding back was causing the ECU to be slack in firing off the signal erratically. generally with good plugs and a good starter spinning quickly i never really see starting issues though.
but the issue i see here is the engine is obviously kicking back during cranking so the ignition is trying to fire off far too early, telling me he stabbed the CAS incorrectly or something got severely tweaked in his timing maps somehow.
but you could be right, i do notice that the microtech is very touchy with old plugs, install new ones and the problem cars start right up and i never could figure out why, as if the coils feeding back was causing the ECU to be slack in firing off the signal erratically. generally with good plugs and a good starter spinning quickly i never really see starting issues though.
but the issue i see here is the engine is obviously kicking back during cranking so the ignition is trying to fire off far too early, telling me he stabbed the CAS incorrectly or something got severely tweaked in his timing maps somehow.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 05-30-11 at 12:39 PM.
05-30-11, 08:14 PM
#29
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SO I have gotten somewhere today... I banged in a couple of spare NGK 105's in the leadings and I can start her every so often...
It seems that when turning over at circa 300rpm (guess as the rpm doesn't seem to catch up on the microtech until about 340rpm) and by this point it's started chugging... So it chuggs away alot and seems to catch on every so often. It is like you have to give it a little bit of throttle at just the right moment and off it goes.
Other than that it spins over chugging faster and faster but never quite catching on and actually running.
The timing marks on turning over are pretty much bang on, the first mark is hitting the pin.
I will check the wiring to the CAS and maybe even shield it further.
Tomorrow I will try my brand new NGK 105's and cross my fingers...
Thanks for the help so far, will keep you posted
It seems that when turning over at circa 300rpm (guess as the rpm doesn't seem to catch up on the microtech until about 340rpm) and by this point it's started chugging... So it chuggs away alot and seems to catch on every so often. It is like you have to give it a little bit of throttle at just the right moment and off it goes.
Other than that it spins over chugging faster and faster but never quite catching on and actually running.
The timing marks on turning over are pretty much bang on, the first mark is hitting the pin.
I will check the wiring to the CAS and maybe even shield it further.
Tomorrow I will try my brand new NGK 105's and cross my fingers...
Thanks for the help so far, will keep you posted
05-30-11, 08:56 PM
#30
talking head
the issues you're referring to Bumpstart sound like CAS wiring issues. microtech changed the wiring harnesses around a few times and some were shielded poorly from my experiences. i have also seen plenty of bad connections to the CAS wiring.
but you could be right, i do notice that the microtech is very touchy with old plugs, install new ones and the problem cars start right up and i never could figure out why, as if the coils feeding back was causing the ECU to be slack in firing off the signal erratically. generally with good plugs and a good starter spinning quickly i never really see starting issues though.
but the issue i see here is the engine is obviously kicking back during cranking so the ignition is trying to fire off far too early, telling me he stabbed the CAS incorrectly or something got severely tweaked in his timing maps somehow.
but you could be right, i do notice that the microtech is very touchy with old plugs, install new ones and the problem cars start right up and i never could figure out why, as if the coils feeding back was causing the ECU to be slack in firing off the signal erratically. generally with good plugs and a good starter spinning quickly i never really see starting issues though.
but the issue i see here is the engine is obviously kicking back during cranking so the ignition is trying to fire off far too early, telling me he stabbed the CAS incorrectly or something got severely tweaked in his timing maps somehow.
as i have also pointed out
,, due to a need to move the timing back and forth the ecu must see the G signal early,,
and uses the Ne count to factor in the window for advance or retard
the G signal in fact comes through some 30 -45 degree earlier than the intended 5 atdc mark
( so that it has this predictive window )
IF he is loosing the Ne signal at low crank speeds
( signal RFI coloration,or bad connections )
then the next G pin will sweep past 45 early and fire the leading 1 coil ( or dual coil in case of the digi 2 and mt8 )
thus giving the bad CAS stab symptoms, ( and one rotor early start ) , although the CAS is actually stabbed fine for when the Ne signal returns to strength
05-31-11, 01:08 PM
#31
yes well that is all greek to me and i have experience with the system, so i'm sure you're totally confusing the OP.
i'm sure i could translate if i looked at the CAS schematic but it's like using doctor's terms to a patient, gotta filter it through to help understand.
i did have one car with a microtech that had very similar symptoms as yours but mixing the kickback in was from other microtech vehicles with fouled plugs.
the issue i had with your symptoms came from the root cause of a failed fuel pressure regulator diaphragm leaking fuel into the vacuum line going to the intake runner, causing the car to be very difficult to start. this could also be a symptom of leaky injectors or excessively rich cranking maps with rather advanced low RPM timing(23*+ BTDC).
easy way to rule out the FPR is to unplug the vacuum line with the fuel pump running. you can test the injectors for leakage by strapping them to the rails and power up the fuel pump while watching for drips out of the engine.
i'm sure i could translate if i looked at the CAS schematic but it's like using doctor's terms to a patient, gotta filter it through to help understand.
SO I have gotten somewhere today... I banged in a couple of spare NGK 105's in the leadings and I can start her every so often...
It seems that when turning over at circa 300rpm (guess as the rpm doesn't seem to catch up on the microtech until about 340rpm) and by this point it's started chugging... So it chuggs away alot and seems to catch on every so often. It is like you have to give it a little bit of throttle at just the right moment and off it goes.
Other than that it spins over chugging faster and faster but never quite catching on and actually running.
The timing marks on turning over are pretty much bang on, the first mark is hitting the pin.
I will check the wiring to the CAS and maybe even shield it further.
Tomorrow I will try my brand new NGK 105's and cross my fingers...
Thanks for the help so far, will keep you posted
It seems that when turning over at circa 300rpm (guess as the rpm doesn't seem to catch up on the microtech until about 340rpm) and by this point it's started chugging... So it chuggs away alot and seems to catch on every so often. It is like you have to give it a little bit of throttle at just the right moment and off it goes.
Other than that it spins over chugging faster and faster but never quite catching on and actually running.
The timing marks on turning over are pretty much bang on, the first mark is hitting the pin.
I will check the wiring to the CAS and maybe even shield it further.
Tomorrow I will try my brand new NGK 105's and cross my fingers...
Thanks for the help so far, will keep you posted
the issue i had with your symptoms came from the root cause of a failed fuel pressure regulator diaphragm leaking fuel into the vacuum line going to the intake runner, causing the car to be very difficult to start. this could also be a symptom of leaky injectors or excessively rich cranking maps with rather advanced low RPM timing(23*+ BTDC).
easy way to rule out the FPR is to unplug the vacuum line with the fuel pump running. you can test the injectors for leakage by strapping them to the rails and power up the fuel pump while watching for drips out of the engine.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 05-31-11 at 01:14 PM.
05-31-11, 06:27 PM
#32
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Join Date: Oct 2002
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Hey everyone
Thank you all for the guidance so far and taking the time out to help, I tested the injectors yesterday to a) make sure they were actually working, b) make sure they were not over working and dripping.
They looked perfect and the spray looked quite uniform and un-leaky.
Karack - I may try a clear tube or like you say, I may clamp it to see if it has any affect.
Bumpstart - I rewired the CAS after reading your post, I had to face it the wiring was a bit naff, the sheath was cracked and with the multimeter on it and moving the wire round it seemed to loose continuity (could have been my dodgy hold on the pins but better safe than sorry)
I looked at the maps used when starting and lowered the fuel input at -5hg and 0 hg which is about where the vac is when it tries to start. the map is based on the vacuum as far as I can see.
Nothing else on the MT made any difference. I determined this by adjusting the map with the injectors out and watching the fuel they pushed out.
The good news is I managed to start the car 3/4 times after changing the timing and fuel maps. I have the first timing mark almost bang on the pin, which I assume is pretty much ok to get this back on track then slowly retard it by 1 deg for every 5lb of boost?? have to look that up again I think...
By memory the original fuel map at those points is about 300 or 400 (I have the original saved )
I put the values down to mid 200's and it seemed to be ok.
I have had to take the plunge now, I rewired the CAS and put in my last set of NGK 105's, hope they don't die! - will be trying to start again tomorrow.
Here is a running quick log from the MT, might mean something to someone, Thanks again for the help...
# 1 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 2 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 3 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 4 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 5 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 6 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 7 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 8 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 9 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 10 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 11 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 12 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 13 1320 -19 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 14 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 15 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 16 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 17 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 18 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 19 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 20 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 21 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 22 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 23 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 24 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 108°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 25 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 26 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 108°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 27 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 28 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 108°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 29 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 30 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 31 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 32 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 33 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 34 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 35 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 36 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 37 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 38 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 39 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 40 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 41 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 42 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 43 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 44 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 18.5 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 45 1250 -19 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 46 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 47 1250 -14 Hg 19% 12° 2.48sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 48 1440 -05 Hg 34% 13° 3.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . Pump1 M . '
# 49 1880 -07 Hg 33% 23° 3.52sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . . . '
# 50 2320 -15 Hg 12% 26° 2.19sT 86°c 108°c 13.56v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 51 2440 -20 Hg 06% 27° 1.81sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 18.5 . . RPMcrs . '
# 52 2380 -21 Hg 06% 28° 1.62sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 18.5 . . RPMcrs . '
# 53 2380 -21 Hg 05% 28° 1.62sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 54 2320 -20 Hg 07% 27° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 55 2320 -20 Hg 08% 27° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 56 2320 -20 Hg 08% 27° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 57 2320 -20 Hg 08% 27° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 18.5 . . RPMcrs . '
# 58 2320 -20 Hg 08% 27° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 59 2380 -21 Hg 08% 28° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 60 2380 -20 Hg 07% 27° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 61 2380 -21 Hg 08% 28° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 18.5 . . RPMcrs . '
# 62 2440 -20 Hg 17% 27° 1.81sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 63 2560 -19 Hg 18% 29° 1.81sT 86°c 108°c 13.56v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 64 2750 -19 Hg 18% 29° 1.81sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 18.5 . . RPMcrs . '
# 65 2880 -19 Hg 17% 29° 1.81sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 66 2950 -20 Hg 17% 29° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.68v 18.5 . . RPMcrs . '
# 67 2950 -20 Hg 17% 29° 1.67sT 86°c 108°c 13.62v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 68 3060 -20 Hg 17% 29° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.68v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 69 3060 -20 Hg 18% 29° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.68v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 70 3180 -16 Hg 33% 29° 2.05sT 86°c 108°c 13.68v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 71 3440 -16 Hg 31% 29° 1.95sT 86°c 106°c 13.75v 18.5 . . RPMcrs . '
# 72 3620 -17 Hg 28% 29° 1.95sT 86°c 106°c 13.75v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 73 3750 -20 Hg 25% 29° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.75v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 74 3820 -20 Hg 25% 29° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.75v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 75 3820 -20 Hg 25% 29° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.75v 18.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 76 3820 -23 Hg 04% 30° 1.29sT 86°c 106°c 13.75v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 77 3440 -25 Hg 00% 00° 1.24sT 86°c 106°c 13.75v 18.5 . . IDLE . '
# 78 3180 -25 Hg 00% 00° 1.24sT 86°c 106°c 13.68v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 79 2880 -25 Hg 00% 00° 1.24sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 80 2560 -25 Hg 00% 00° 1.24sT 86°c 106°c 13.68v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 81 2320 -25 Hg 00% 00° 1.24sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 18.5 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 82 2180 -23 Hg 00% 00° 1.29sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 18.5 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 83 1950 -22 Hg 00% 00° 1.29sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 18.5 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 84 1750 -22 Hg 00% 00° 1.38sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 85 1620 -21 Hg 00% 00° 1.48sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 86 1500 -20 Hg 00% 00° 1.52sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 87 1440 -20 Hg 00% 00° 1.52sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 88 1320 -19 Hg 00% 00° 1.52sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 89 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 90 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 91 1180 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 92 1180 -16 Hg 00% 00° 1.81sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 93 1180 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 94 1180 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 95 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
Thank you all for the guidance so far and taking the time out to help, I tested the injectors yesterday to a) make sure they were actually working, b) make sure they were not over working and dripping.
They looked perfect and the spray looked quite uniform and un-leaky.
Karack - I may try a clear tube or like you say, I may clamp it to see if it has any affect.
Bumpstart - I rewired the CAS after reading your post, I had to face it the wiring was a bit naff, the sheath was cracked and with the multimeter on it and moving the wire round it seemed to loose continuity (could have been my dodgy hold on the pins but better safe than sorry)
I looked at the maps used when starting and lowered the fuel input at -5hg and 0 hg which is about where the vac is when it tries to start. the map is based on the vacuum as far as I can see.
Nothing else on the MT made any difference. I determined this by adjusting the map with the injectors out and watching the fuel they pushed out.
The good news is I managed to start the car 3/4 times after changing the timing and fuel maps. I have the first timing mark almost bang on the pin, which I assume is pretty much ok to get this back on track then slowly retard it by 1 deg for every 5lb of boost?? have to look that up again I think...
By memory the original fuel map at those points is about 300 or 400 (I have the original saved
)I put the values down to mid 200's and it seemed to be ok.
I have had to take the plunge now, I rewired the CAS and put in my last set of NGK 105's, hope they don't die! - will be trying to start again tomorrow.
Here is a running quick log from the MT, might mean something to someone, Thanks again for the help...
# 1 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 2 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 3 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 4 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 5 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 6 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 7 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 8 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 9 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 10 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 11 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 12 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 13 1320 -19 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 14 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 15 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 16 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 17 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 18 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 19 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 20 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 21 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 22 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 23 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 24 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 108°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 25 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 26 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 108°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 27 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 28 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 108°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 29 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 30 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 31 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 32 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 33 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 34 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 35 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 36 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 37 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 38 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 39 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 40 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 41 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 42 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 43 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 44 1320 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 18.5 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 45 1250 -19 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 46 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 47 1250 -14 Hg 19% 12° 2.48sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 48 1440 -05 Hg 34% 13° 3.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . Pump1 M . '
# 49 1880 -07 Hg 33% 23° 3.52sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . . . '
# 50 2320 -15 Hg 12% 26° 2.19sT 86°c 108°c 13.56v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 51 2440 -20 Hg 06% 27° 1.81sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 18.5 . . RPMcrs . '
# 52 2380 -21 Hg 06% 28° 1.62sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 18.5 . . RPMcrs . '
# 53 2380 -21 Hg 05% 28° 1.62sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 54 2320 -20 Hg 07% 27° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 55 2320 -20 Hg 08% 27° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 56 2320 -20 Hg 08% 27° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 57 2320 -20 Hg 08% 27° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 18.5 . . RPMcrs . '
# 58 2320 -20 Hg 08% 27° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 59 2380 -21 Hg 08% 28° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 60 2380 -20 Hg 07% 27° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 61 2380 -21 Hg 08% 28° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 18.5 . . RPMcrs . '
# 62 2440 -20 Hg 17% 27° 1.81sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 63 2560 -19 Hg 18% 29° 1.81sT 86°c 108°c 13.56v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 64 2750 -19 Hg 18% 29° 1.81sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 18.5 . . RPMcrs . '
# 65 2880 -19 Hg 17% 29° 1.81sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 66 2950 -20 Hg 17% 29° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.68v 18.5 . . RPMcrs . '
# 67 2950 -20 Hg 17% 29° 1.67sT 86°c 108°c 13.62v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 68 3060 -20 Hg 17% 29° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.68v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 69 3060 -20 Hg 18% 29° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.68v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 70 3180 -16 Hg 33% 29° 2.05sT 86°c 108°c 13.68v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 71 3440 -16 Hg 31% 29° 1.95sT 86°c 106°c 13.75v 18.5 . . RPMcrs . '
# 72 3620 -17 Hg 28% 29° 1.95sT 86°c 106°c 13.75v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 73 3750 -20 Hg 25% 29° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.75v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 74 3820 -20 Hg 25% 29° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.75v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 75 3820 -20 Hg 25% 29° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.75v 18.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 76 3820 -23 Hg 04% 30° 1.29sT 86°c 106°c 13.75v 19.0 . . RPMcrs . '
# 77 3440 -25 Hg 00% 00° 1.24sT 86°c 106°c 13.75v 18.5 . . IDLE . '
# 78 3180 -25 Hg 00% 00° 1.24sT 86°c 106°c 13.68v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 79 2880 -25 Hg 00% 00° 1.24sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 80 2560 -25 Hg 00% 00° 1.24sT 86°c 106°c 13.68v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 81 2320 -25 Hg 00% 00° 1.24sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 18.5 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 82 2180 -23 Hg 00% 00° 1.29sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 18.5 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 83 1950 -22 Hg 00% 00° 1.29sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 18.5 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 84 1750 -22 Hg 00% 00° 1.38sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 85 1620 -21 Hg 00% 00° 1.48sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 86 1500 -20 Hg 00% 00° 1.52sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 87 1440 -20 Hg 00% 00° 1.52sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 88 1320 -19 Hg 00% 00° 1.52sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 89 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 90 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.67sT 86°c 106°c 13.56v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 91 1180 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 92 1180 -16 Hg 00% 00° 1.81sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 93 1180 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 94 1180 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
# 95 1250 -17 Hg 00% 00° 1.76sT 86°c 106°c 13.62v 19.0 . . TPS_Cal . '
05-31-11, 06:41 PM
#33
you should be able to advance the timing a bit, the figures look a bit retarded and probably why the temps are cooking. a general target is to retard timing after about 4psi, 1 degree per 2 psi aiming for 15*BTDC at 14psi, your RPM timing maps will also affect this so you have to correlate the 2 maps but looks like you're at 5*ATDC for idle and 25*BTDC or near it for max advance(since you're timed off the 5* ATDC mark).
each tuner sets up the timing maps slightly differently and of course the turbo will affect overall figures as well, but those look a bit too conservative. low RPM timing can be tweaked up to about 20* for increased response since this is no longer a street car.
that all assuming the timing marks on the hub are correct, if it was running well before i would start with out of boost timing before assuming it is correct and winding up with a toasted motor by moving all the figures up.
each tuner sets up the timing maps slightly differently and of course the turbo will affect overall figures as well, but those look a bit too conservative. low RPM timing can be tweaked up to about 20* for increased response since this is no longer a street car.
that all assuming the timing marks on the hub are correct, if it was running well before i would start with out of boost timing before assuming it is correct and winding up with a toasted motor by moving all the figures up.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 05-31-11 at 06:46 PM.
05-31-11, 07:08 PM
#34
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Karack - Thanks for the info, very very helpful.
Can you enlighten me as to how you tell that, I would really like to be able to look at this log tomorrow and figure out what to do, Adv/Retard... etc
13 years of Rotary and I'm still learning!
To be honest, I wondered about the timing marks on the hub, there are some on the front pulley wheel (the ones I used) and some a few degrees behind on the rear wheel (ignored those). They match my old pulley though so must be good.
Now, as at tonight the timing at crank is almost bang on the pin, I will take a new log tomorrow as it's 1am now
Do any of you do MT setups? would anyone be interested in having a look at this?
Thanks again
Can you enlighten me as to how you tell that, I would really like to be able to look at this log tomorrow and figure out what to do, Adv/Retard... etc
13 years of Rotary and I'm still learning!
To be honest, I wondered about the timing marks on the hub, there are some on the front pulley wheel (the ones I used) and some a few degrees behind on the rear wheel (ignored those). They match my old pulley though so must be good.
Now, as at tonight the timing at crank is almost bang on the pin, I will take a new log tomorrow as it's 1am now
Do any of you do MT setups? would anyone be interested in having a look at this?
Thanks again
05-31-11, 07:18 PM
#35
# 1(line#) 1250(RPM) -17 Hg(vacuum/boost) 00%(throttle % iirc) 00°(leading timing) 1.67sT(primary injector DC) 86°c(intake air temp iirc, guessing you just restarted the car after a few minutes of heat soaking or still running the TMIC) 106°c(water temp) 13.62v(battery volts) 19.0(air fuel ratio) . . TPS_Cal(current map mixing) . '
i do MT installs and tuning but for diagnostic help the microtech forum may be a little more helpful as there are more knowledgable people in there than my limited knowledge of finding issues, i just rarely have any issues i have to try and sort out with the microtech ECU's which has been one of their only saving graces in my eyes.
i do MT installs and tuning but for diagnostic help the microtech forum may be a little more helpful as there are more knowledgable people in there than my limited knowledge of finding issues, i just rarely have any issues i have to try and sort out with the microtech ECU's which has been one of their only saving graces in my eyes.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 05-31-11 at 07:21 PM.
05-31-11, 07:33 PM
#36
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Thank you for the clear explanations, again, V Helpful.
Cool, I am going to look there (the MT forums too).
Karack - awesome help, thanks v much Looking forward to a day of starter motor cooling and swearing
Cool, I am going to look there (the MT forums too).
Karack - awesome help, thanks v much
Looking forward to a day of starter motor cooling and swearing
06-04-11, 11:50 AM
#37
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Hi everyone, so I can start the car now.. I lowered the cranking fuel addition at 11 Celsius and 18 c and it now starts usually 1st time.
However my old problem of detonation is still there and with my track day looming Monday (on the boat tomorrow) I am at a loss again.
The car is idling great, my timing marks are bang on the pin (first mark) when accelerating the microtech see's the 30 deg and it seems to run alright until it hits 02psi then we start detonation.
My load maps are the same as they have been for years, any ideas welcome
Thank you again.
However my old problem of detonation is still there and with my track day looming Monday (on the boat tomorrow) I am at a loss again.
The car is idling great, my timing marks are bang on the pin (first mark) when accelerating the microtech see's the 30 deg and it seems to run alright until it hits 02psi then we start detonation.
My load maps are the same as they have been for years, any ideas welcome
Thank you again.
06-04-11, 02:43 PM
#38
Rotary Freak
The first two jpg are of the cover of a stk CAS and the "BUNG" mentioned by BumpStart. I had no idea what that was for. I usually just put the pulley on the mark and remove the cover and arrange it so the top two "gears" on the CAS rotor are opposite the reluctors as can be seen in the third jpg attached.
Third jpg is off a touch 'cause I had it on the top of a scanner and it moved a touch. IF you had a stk ECU the car would have stated just fine if your CAS looked like the one in the second jpg.
For what G and Ne signals/teeth are all about read this: http://rx7.pw.cx/guides_manuals/coll...ystifying.html
How do you know your detonating?
I know less than nothing about Micrtech/halltech etc .
Third jpg is off a touch 'cause I had it on the top of a scanner and it moved a touch. IF you had a stk ECU the car would have stated just fine if your CAS looked like the one in the second jpg.
For what G and Ne signals/teeth are all about read this: http://rx7.pw.cx/guides_manuals/coll...ystifying.html
How do you know your detonating?
I know less than nothing about Micrtech/halltech etc .
06-04-11, 07:32 PM
#39
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For what G and Ne signals/teeth are all about read this: http://rx7.pw.cx/guides_manuals/coll...ystifying.html
So, I am pretty sure the timing is alright... I am certain it is detonating, it is the same old noise I have heard before and I have blown a few motors before. It's like rapping metal drum sticks on a metal plate.
So here is everything I have done to get this thing to run right.
Rebuilt motor, set timing to first mark on front pulley (to pin), not changed any maps on my microtech except for the cranking fuel.
Vacuum is running about -15 to -17 at idle then into positive figures under boost. checked vac lines, the only one I have no idea about is the one from my KKK turbo housing, guess that is supposed to go somewhere! All other vac lines from the FD intake (on my FC) go to places like BOV, microtech, fuel valve etc.
Unless someone can give me an example of where to use the vac lines from the fd intake I have put them back as they were before, but then I did have the issue before too.
I have also tried changing the fuel pump, removing the fuel filter in case of blockage, removing my immobiliser.
I even tried talking nice to it, haven't gotten lucky yet though!
Guess i'll have to use the beemer for my track day
Thanks Everyone.
06-04-11, 08:16 PM
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Just thinking further, if anyone has the time spare and thinks they may be able to fix this effin car I would happily pay. I'm gonna throw up $150 for anyone who can get this thing running right. It has to run right though when done...
Problem is I am going to bed now but will be back at 0900GMT but if your interested please PM me or post here.
It will mean probably a call for a while and running through things but it's there if you want it. I have no real internet where my car is (except dial up!!!)
Hope this ain't against any forum rules but I really don't want to have to take my beemer away
Thanks
Problem is I am going to bed now but will be back at 0900GMT but if your interested please PM me or post here.
It will mean probably a call for a while and running through things but it's there if you want it. I have no real internet where my car is (except dial up!!!)
Hope this ain't against any forum rules but I really don't want to have to take my beemer away
Thanks
06-04-11, 08:52 PM
#41
Just thinking further, if anyone has the time spare and thinks they may be able to fix this effin car I would happily pay. I'm gonna throw up $150 for anyone who can get this thing running right. It has to run right though when done...
Problem is I am going to bed now but will be back at 0900GMT but if your interested please PM me or post here.
It will mean probably a call for a while and running through things but it's there if you want it. I have no real internet where my car is (except dial up!!!)
Hope this ain't against any forum rules but I really don't want to have to take my beemer away
Thanks
Problem is I am going to bed now but will be back at 0900GMT but if your interested please PM me or post here.
It will mean probably a call for a while and running through things but it's there if you want it. I have no real internet where my car is (except dial up!!!)
Hope this ain't against any forum rules but I really don't want to have to take my beemer away
Thanks
problem is i can't really think of much else that could be causing it aside from faulty ignition, which is as simple as swapping coils, plugs, wires and inspecting the wiring from the microtech to the coils. if it all looks fine put a timing light on each plug wire induvidually and use a timing light to see if you are getting any erratic spark timing spikes.
you'll see the timing light blip forward or back on the pulley if there is an issue. closing the air gap in the CAS also won't really hurt anything and may get you a cleaner RPM signal to the microtech. be sure to rev the engine to the point where the issue presents itself instead of just at idle RPM also, you should see the timing advance slightly while revving it up.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 06-04-11 at 08:55 PM.
06-05-11, 10:09 AM
#43
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I have found my problem, the trailing coil is firing at will, totally random.
I can only assume this has hindered my starting by pre igniting!
I have had my Microtech checked by MT in AUS and they said it was fine last year (had this problem then too, just didn't seem to affect the car so bad)
Replaced the coil packs and re did the wiring to them.
I suppose this is why my dash Tacho is all to whack and jumping round! as I have now unplugged the trailing coil and it is running pretty well (no RPM on the dash but hey ho)
Any ideas?
I can only assume this has hindered my starting by pre igniting!
I have had my Microtech checked by MT in AUS and they said it was fine last year (had this problem then too, just didn't seem to affect the car so bad)
Replaced the coil packs and re did the wiring to them.
I suppose this is why my dash Tacho is all to whack and jumping round! as I have now unplugged the trailing coil and it is running pretty well (no RPM on the dash but hey ho)
Any ideas?
06-05-11, 11:11 PM
#46
thought i said to disconnect it and recheck too..
so with a different coil and rewired it still has issues? disconnect the tachometer wire if you answered yes and recheck it. you can also check the voltage to the coils off the black/yellow wires, should be at least 11.5v with the engine running.
so with a different coil and rewired it still has issues? disconnect the tachometer wire if you answered yes and recheck it. you can also check the voltage to the coils off the black/yellow wires, should be at least 11.5v with the engine running.
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