jimmyv13

What are the ill affects of simply removing the accessories, plugging the holes, and looping the lines of the passenger side on the rack to depower it? I did this in my 87TII a few years ago and the the guy that bought the car is still driving it like that. This is the situation I'm in...I was changing the leaky cooling loop in my AE and snapped off one of the shoulders for the line to attach to the rack. My options, as I see them, are:

Plugging everything and doing what I did to my old 87TII and run it that way. I'll have to JB weld the crap out of that shoulder, but I THINK it will hold. How much pressure is in the cooling line with the power taken out of the operation? I imagine there has to be some pressure with the guts of the rack still in tact. There's also the issue with how long the JB Weld will hold.

Getting another power rack and follow the directions in the archive to depower the rack. But, is this really necessary? This way, all of the bolts will be secure.

Any help is appreciated, thanks.

Mephis

Can't you just take the belt off the power steering pump? I've been driving mine like that for a month now... heh

13b4me

Taking the belt off will give you the worst steering imaginable... Almost makes it pointless to own an FC at that point...

Best bet is to get a manual rack... It's alot easier and cheap enough to make it worthwhile... Then you get the improved ratio...

Mephis

Maybe if you're as weak as a 5 year old child with rickkets.


It steers a HELL of alot better now, with the power steering I kept getting under steer issues because I couldn't tell what the front wheels were doing. Now I can feel it through the wheel and push the limits without getting suprizes.


If you think it's hard to steer you're a ***** heh...

13b4me

No if you think that's the proper way to do things, you're an idiot...

Have you ever driven an FC with a manual rack before? If not, then you have no idea what the **** you're talking about, and should stay the hell out of this thread... Thanks for your input tough guy...

robtechfabrications

whats the benefit of a manual rack over depowering the power rack? cuz i have PS and have been thinking of doing this to get better road feel...they have different ratios?

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

Shoot, I don't know what you guys are smoking. I would much rather have PS than a manual rack... The TII feels SOO nimble with PS, but is just a PITA without it IMO.

robtechfabrications

i definately wouldnt mind gettin rid of the PS pulley thats for sure...

Mephis

Forum noob trying to start an arguement eh?

All you can do is fling insults, I was telling it how it is.
An FC with no PS belt will steer fine, getting around a parking lot isn't even bad. Road feel is about the best I've known from any car yet.

It feels like driving an oversized go-kart if you want a good discription.


Not everyone is going to go out and dump a ton of money to get rid of their power steering system. Some of us actually live in the real world where money doesn't grow on trees.

13b4me

NOOB?

Let me ask you a question there chief... How many RX-7's have you owned and driven exactly? I can assure you I have more experience with them that you do, based on your very own comments...

And you don't call "Maybe if you're as weak as a 5 year old child with rickkets" or "If you think it's hard to steer you're a ***** heh" insults? Grow the **** up man...

For the record, there is a HUGE difference between a manual rack, and a ghetto rigged belt removal hackjob... And furthermore, it doesn't take "a bunch of money" to swap to a manual steering setup... If you can't afford to do it right, then sell the car to someone who can... And this is coming from a poor person mkay?

Manual steering rack -$100

Sell PS pump, bracket, pulley +$50

Sell PS rack +$50

Sell PS computer +25

Wow that leaves you $25 to the positive it would seem!

Not having to hear the annoying "beep" from your PS computer? PRICELESS...

13b4me

The power rack is a 15.2/1 ratio and the manual rack is a 20.3/1 ratio, so yes, there is a big difference...

13b4me

For an '88 model, which is obviously the car in question here... ^^^

13b4me

LMAO after reading your "cardomain" site, I understand fully now... You claim 190hp on a S5 N/A with the only mods being a RB header and HKS filter...

GTFO man...

Black91n/a

Wow, lots of arguments here. If you look in the archives there's a post of mine where I go over how to fully depower a power steering rack. That's the ideal case. Doing the line looping method is just about as good, but it still leaves some extra paracitic drag that my method eliminates.

The reason why just taking the belt off is stupid is that you are now having to force fluid through the pump, increasing the resistance, taking away steering feel, as it's acting as a big damper for steering feel. You're much better off to take the rack apart and remove the piston, or to loop the lines. DO NOT just cap the lines without draining all the fluid.

The big difference between a depowered power rack and a manual rack is the ratio, a manual rack has much slower steering. A depowered power rack will maintain the nimble feeling while only slightly adding to steering effort while increasing road feel.

By the way, when I depowered my rack it cost me absolutely nothing, so the money argument is a stupid one, one can remove the power steering and end up with more money than when they started by selling the parts they removed.

As for the JB weld fix, I wouldn't trust it to hold up in the long run. At best it's a temporary fix to get you by untill you can replace the parts, or depower it.

jimmyv13

Wow, lots of.......ummm input, thanks fellas.

With the situation I'm in, the PS rack in my car now is pretty much useless with the broken bolt housing, so getting another PS rack and gutting it will be done. I JB Welded the **** out of it and hopefully it'll hold for a week or so until I get another rack and get going on it. I'd rather go with the gutless power rack and keep the quick ratio than go to a manual rack and have to get different brackets.

eyeoutthere

Good choice.

I went through the trouble of putting in a manual rack but I ended up switching back to a de-powered rack because the ratio is better.

The manual rack required too much rotation and was slowing me down on quick transitions. Difference in steering effort is minimal.

lupin

iTrader: (3)

I swaped my old 87 ps rack for a 89 ps rack and depowered it.

take off the tie rods and take apart the rack(http://www.cochran-racing.com/FSM/index.html)- manual for rack and torque

cut the seal out with a grinder(when it is almost off use a small hack saw)
grease up and cut the lines and use jb weld to seal them. Get bolts for the other holes and you are all set.

n/a-luvr

If I remember correctly, the power steering pump progressively decreases the amount of pressure to the rack as speed increases till the rack becomes completely de-powered at high speed. So you eventually end up driving with a depowered rack - the power is for low speed assistance.

however, I don't mind ditching some steering assistance to save some weight... I ditched my belts but haven't depowered my rack yet - waiting to do it the right way as lupin describes.

gxlbiscuit

i hate to start this part.. but.. alot of the ps computers and pumps dont work together like they should anymore.. sometimes they dont come on and and go off when they should... i know i have understeered myself into alot of crap in the autocross/ tight track environment. i have had moments when i drive my car and when in the parking lot the PS isnt working then out of the blue it just kicks in... maybe back in the day it was good but i wonder how good it is 18.5 years later.. gotta love mazda computers....at least the ecus seem to hold up

jimmyv13

My PS computer hasn't beeped at me yet either...

13b4me

I honestly don't know how anyone says a 20.3/1 rack is a worse ratio than 15.2/1 depowered rack... Boggles me completely...

Black91n/a

Well I'd consider a 20.3:1 rack worse than a 15.2:1 rack, because it's got so much slower steering. You'd need to turn the wheel 1/3 more for any given steering angle, and for autocross especially, that can be a problem. There are regularly occasions in autocross that call for a lot of steering input, where a faster ratio rack might allow you to keep your hands on the wheel where the slower one might require a shuffle.

I like my 17.4:1 depowered rack, it's not too heavy, and it's got decently quick steering. One day I might try a 15.2:1 depowered rack if I can get one cheaply. I doubt that I'd like the 20.3:1 rack.

13b4me

20.3/1 is a faster ratio, not a slower one... They made it a 20.3/1 ratio to make up for the lack of power assist...

Black91n/a

I think maybe there's some confusion between what's a "fast" and what's a "slow" rack. A "fast" rack will turn the wheels more per turn of the steering wheel. A 15.2:1 rack is "faster" than a 20.3:1 rack, period. The lower the ratio, the faster the wheels turn for a given steering input, that's where the "fast" and "slow" terminology comes from.

I'm not sure what the ratio refers to exactly, but I beleive that it refers to the ratio of angles produced by the wheels and the steering wheel. Meaning that for every 1 degree of front wheel movement, it'll require 15.2 or 20.3 degrees of steering input, depending on the rack used.

The factory manual rack is easier to steer because you have a better mechanical advantage, but that comes at the cost of "slower" steering.

riverzendz

I had a manual rack in my 87 base. Wish I would've kept that for my 87 TII. Depowering is nice and all I would still go with what 13b4me is trying to beat into everybody's skull...get a manual rack, swap it out.

And c'mon 13b4me...Mephis wouldn't have that 190hp if he had kept that powersteering belt on. Gobs of hp just by taking the belt off. I don't use any belts so I'm probably around 350-400hp.