Custom T4 and Stock TII tubular manifolds - Interest?
11-03-08, 02:44 PM
#1
Custom T4 and Stock TII tubular manifolds - Interest?
I'm looking for interest in getting some stock replacement manifolds made along with some Aspec tuning or turblown T4 manifold alternatives for FC's (and FDs as well).
I know a lot of people have cracked stock manifolds and I think a relatively cheap stock replacement (like the ssautochrome one, but better) would be a great thing to have as an alternative to buying used stock manifolds that could crack and leak once again.
I also think $900+ for a quality manifold with two runners is ridiculous and I am currently trying to find a way to get some made at half the price with similar quality. This is no SSautochrome cheap China-made stuff. It'll be quality stuff made here in the USA for half the price.
If anybody has suggestions on specs and things to watch out for, it would definitely help. Also if anybody has any old manifolds and tubular S4 manifolds like the aspec or turblown ones they can donate to help the cause, I'm sure the community would greatly appreciate it. I have the means to get them made, but don't have anything to copy or improve on.
I am in no way trying to make money here nor am I affiliated with any shop. I'm simply trying to offer a service to the community by providing quality alternatives to the $1000 T4 manifolds we currently are limited to (aside from the ebay ****). The person I procured for the job has been a success in the IS300 community building turbo manifolds/kits and long runner headers. I'm sure a manifold for a 13B wouldn't bee too different if not easier than a six-runner equal length header.
Suggestions? Comments? All are welcome
Thanks,
Jaime
I know a lot of people have cracked stock manifolds and I think a relatively cheap stock replacement (like the ssautochrome one, but better) would be a great thing to have as an alternative to buying used stock manifolds that could crack and leak once again.
I also think $900+ for a quality manifold with two runners is ridiculous and I am currently trying to find a way to get some made at half the price with similar quality. This is no SSautochrome cheap China-made stuff. It'll be quality stuff made here in the USA for half the price.
If anybody has suggestions on specs and things to watch out for, it would definitely help. Also if anybody has any old manifolds and tubular S4 manifolds like the aspec or turblown ones they can donate to help the cause, I'm sure the community would greatly appreciate it. I have the means to get them made, but don't have anything to copy or improve on.
I am in no way trying to make money here nor am I affiliated with any shop. I'm simply trying to offer a service to the community by providing quality alternatives to the $1000 T4 manifolds we currently are limited to (aside from the ebay ****). The person I procured for the job has been a success in the IS300 community building turbo manifolds/kits and long runner headers. I'm sure a manifold for a 13B wouldn't bee too different if not easier than a six-runner equal length header.
Suggestions? Comments? All are welcome
Thanks,
Jaime
11-03-08, 04:04 PM
#2
Engine, Not Motor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 29,789
Likes: 0
Received 108 Likes
on
91 Posts
I'm looking for interest in getting some stock replacement manifolds made along with some Aspec tuning or turblown T4 manifold alternatives for FC's (and FDs as well).
I know a lot of people have cracked stock manifolds and I think a relatively cheap stock replacement (like the ssautochrome one, but better) would be a great thing to have as an alternative to buying used stock manifolds that could crack and leak once again.
I know a lot of people have cracked stock manifolds and I think a relatively cheap stock replacement (like the ssautochrome one, but better) would be a great thing to have as an alternative to buying used stock manifolds that could crack and leak once again.
1. Space issues. It will be almost impossible to keep the current location of the turbo with a fabricated tubular manifold
2. Demand. There will be little.
3. Cost. It will cost a lot more then simply replacing the stock manifold with a good used part, or repairing the existing manifold.
4. By all accounts and based on fact, fabricated tubular manifolds tend to crack a lost easier then cast manifolds.
I also think $900+ for a quality manifold with two runners is ridiculous and I am currently trying to find a way to get some made at half the price with similar quality. This is no SSautochrome cheap China-made stuff. It'll be quality stuff made here in the USA for half the price.
There is no way any fabricator worth his money would charge $450 to build a manifold.
You posted this last year:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=661303
Last edited by Aaron Cake; 11-03-08 at 04:06 PM.
11-03-08, 04:44 PM
#3
Several problems with this:
1. Space issues. It will be almost impossible to keep the current location of the turbo with a fabricated tubular manifold
2. Demand. There will be little.
3. Cost. It will cost a lot more then simply replacing the stock manifold with a good used part, or repairing the existing manifold.
4. By all accounts and based on fact, fabricated tubular manifolds tend to crack a lost easier then cast manifolds.
Clearly you've never fabricated a manifold. $900 is about the minimum you would expect to pay for a quality fabricated tubular manifold in stainless. Consider that many manifolds are custom to the application. Even when jigs to make "production" parts, there's about 10 hours into each manifold, materials cost, consumables cost, etc.
There is no way any fabricator worth his money would charge $450 to build a manifold.
You posted this last year:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=661303
1. Space issues. It will be almost impossible to keep the current location of the turbo with a fabricated tubular manifold
2. Demand. There will be little.
3. Cost. It will cost a lot more then simply replacing the stock manifold with a good used part, or repairing the existing manifold.
4. By all accounts and based on fact, fabricated tubular manifolds tend to crack a lost easier then cast manifolds.
Clearly you've never fabricated a manifold. $900 is about the minimum you would expect to pay for a quality fabricated tubular manifold in stainless. Consider that many manifolds are custom to the application. Even when jigs to make "production" parts, there's about 10 hours into each manifold, materials cost, consumables cost, etc.
There is no way any fabricator worth his money would charge $450 to build a manifold.
You posted this last year:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=661303
RE-Amemiya was able to produce a stock replacement, so I don't see why this would be so difficult? As long as it retained stock placement and is made with quality materials, it should work.
This fabricator wants to start making parts for RX7s and I believe with some help from this community, there can be practical alternatives to other, more expensive, manifolds.
I hope others can chime in with more constructive responses.
11-04-08, 09:01 AM
#4
Engine, Not Motor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 29,789
Likes: 0
Received 108 Likes
on
91 Posts
My guess is that the Amemiya manifold was cast, not tubular. However since I've never seen one it's only a guess. Keep in mind also that the stock S5 TII manifold is already "tubular" in a sense as both runners are cast separately and each lead to a different scroll in the turbo.
In the tight space of the stock manifold a tubular manifold with adequate runner diameter and nonrestrictive bends is going to be very, very difficult. If not impossible.
I'm flat out amazed that a fabricator would charge only $500 to make a custom stainless tubular manifold. I've run the numbers again and again in my head yet can't imagine making such a piece for only $500. Materials is about $100 if you buy in bulk. It will take several hours to cut, jig and tack, and then there will be about 4 hours behind the welding torch to stick it together. Some kind of universal wastegate flange will need to be used which precludes the use of v-band style wastegates.
In the tight space of the stock manifold a tubular manifold with adequate runner diameter and nonrestrictive bends is going to be very, very difficult. If not impossible.
I'm flat out amazed that a fabricator would charge only $500 to make a custom stainless tubular manifold. I've run the numbers again and again in my head yet can't imagine making such a piece for only $500. Materials is about $100 if you buy in bulk. It will take several hours to cut, jig and tack, and then there will be about 4 hours behind the welding torch to stick it together. Some kind of universal wastegate flange will need to be used which precludes the use of v-band style wastegates.
11-04-08, 09:37 AM
#5
I agree with Aaron 100% on everything pointed out so far. 1 having a stock replacement is just dumb, why upgrade a manifold with a stock turbo? I just cant see how a tubular would flow any better then stock withen the stock confinds. 2 price.... I just don't ever see this materializing, if it does, Kudos. BTW, not to mention, copying someones hard work and design is not only disstastefull, but these guys support the RX-7 community not to mention this very forum your posting in. Turblown and A-Spec both make great manifolds and are not making much off of them do to the already pointed out expensive cost of materials and a LOT of time invested in making a manifold in cutting and welding. This thread is a slap in their faces. If you could get this done cheaper, go for it, but make your own design, its not hard to mock up a manifold out of plastic flexible tubing and make a jig from there. If your looking for pointers on building one and design recommendations your in the wrong section (go to the single turbo forums). Theres TONS of info there on making manifolds and what and more importantly what not to do.
~Mike..................
~Mike..................
Last edited by RacerXtreme7; 11-04-08 at 09:59 AM.
11-04-08, 11:12 AM
#7
My guess is that the Amemiya manifold was cast, not tubular. However since I've never seen one it's only a guess. Keep in mind also that the stock S5 TII manifold is already "tubular" in a sense as both runners are cast separately and each lead to a different scroll in the turbo.
In the tight space of the stock manifold a tubular manifold with adequate runner diameter and nonrestrictive bends is going to be very, very difficult. If not impossible.
I'm flat out amazed that a fabricator would charge only $500 to make a custom stainless tubular manifold. I've run the numbers again and again in my head yet can't imagine making such a piece for only $500. Materials is about $100 if you buy in bulk. It will take several hours to cut, jig and tack, and then there will be about 4 hours behind the welding torch to stick it together. Some kind of universal wastegate flange will need to be used which precludes the use of v-band style wastegates.
In the tight space of the stock manifold a tubular manifold with adequate runner diameter and nonrestrictive bends is going to be very, very difficult. If not impossible.
I'm flat out amazed that a fabricator would charge only $500 to make a custom stainless tubular manifold. I've run the numbers again and again in my head yet can't imagine making such a piece for only $500. Materials is about $100 if you buy in bulk. It will take several hours to cut, jig and tack, and then there will be about 4 hours behind the welding torch to stick it together. Some kind of universal wastegate flange will need to be used which precludes the use of v-band style wastegates.
http://www.rhdjapan.com/jdm-low/RE-A...C3S-RX-7-51044
It's tubular.
I agree with Aaron 100% on everything pointed out so far. 1 having a stock replacement is just dumb, why upgrade a manifold with a stock turbo? I just cant see how a tubular would flow any better then stock withen the stock confinds. 2 price.... I just don't ever see this materializing, if it does, Kudos. BTW, not to mention, copying someones hard work and design is not only disstastefull, but these guys support the RX-7 community not to mention this very forum your posting in. Turblown and A-Spec both make great manifolds and are not making much off of them do to the already pointed out expensive cost of materials and a LOT of time invested in making a manifold in cutting and welding. This thread is a slap in their faces. If you could get this done cheaper, go for it, but make your own design, its not hard to mock up a manifold out of plastic flexible tubing and make a jig from there. If your looking for pointers on building one and design recommendations your in the wrong section (go to the single turbo forums). Theres TONS of info there on making manifolds and what and more importantly what not to do.
~Mike..................
~Mike..................
The stock turbo replacement isn't just "dumb" considering there are a lot of people out there running BNR turbos, like myself. I've spoken to numerous others who're having issues with their manifolds leaking and cracking. I, for one, have had two stock manifolds crack and start leaking.
Trending Topics
11-05-08, 09:40 AM
#8
Engine, Not Motor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 29,789
Likes: 0
Received 108 Likes
on
91 Posts
My guess is that Amemiya piece flows worse then stock. Those short radius 90 degree bends are terrible. Still, congrats to them on being able to fit a tubular manifold in such a confined space, even though the benefit is dubious. 
11-05-08, 11:08 AM
#9
I really don't think that the stock replacement manifold is a great Idea. If it were me I would just replace a cracked stock manifold with an other stock manifold.
As far as a turbo upgrade manifold is concerned $500 is a pretty good price, and in my opinion a much more reasonable price. I understand that there other companies are charging premium prices but they are creating custom solutions on a case by case basis. I honestly don't think I could bring myself to pay $1000 for a turbo manifold when I am confident enough in my skills to make my own.
For $500 I can't imagine they would be unique custom manifolds.
Also this guys work seems pretty legit. If he thinks he can sell something decent I would be interested.
As far as a turbo upgrade manifold is concerned $500 is a pretty good price, and in my opinion a much more reasonable price. I understand that there other companies are charging premium prices but they are creating custom solutions on a case by case basis. I honestly don't think I could bring myself to pay $1000 for a turbo manifold when I am confident enough in my skills to make my own.
For $500 I can't imagine they would be unique custom manifolds.
Also this guys work seems pretty legit. If he thinks he can sell something decent I would be interested.
Last edited by ITSWILL; 11-05-08 at 11:21 AM.
11-05-08, 11:38 AM
#11
If, lets say, you clock the turbine section. so that the inlet is facing down, and that the center section is still in the correct place, you would have to clock it 120* so that the down pipe bolts up. this is probably the only way to pull this off.
the piping would still have ridiculous bends, but not as much of a tight cramped space any more. unless im wrong and the frame hits it.
either way, its a useless idea. too much time and effort to make something just as stock, just allot more complicated.
11-05-08, 01:06 PM
#12
it can be done aaron, just not the way the stock one is.
If, lets say, you clock the turbine section. so that the inlet is facing down, and that the center section is still in the correct place, you would have to clock it 120* so that the down pipe bolts up. this is probably the only way to pull this off.
If, lets say, you clock the turbine section. so that the inlet is facing down, and that the center section is still in the correct place, you would have to clock it 120* so that the down pipe bolts up. this is probably the only way to pull this off.
Exactly.
~Mike...............
11-05-08, 01:34 PM
#13
Thanks for the input guys. I'll put the stock replacement on the back burner for now.
Is there anybody in the SoCal area that's willing to bring their car in for fitting? He has TO4 60-1's for test fitting. The manifold is going to be made. Can anyone help us with this? Anybody with a damaged T4 manifold or something they are willing to donate?
Worst comes to worst I can bring mine down there...but I live in NorCal.
Is there anybody in the SoCal area that's willing to bring their car in for fitting? He has TO4 60-1's for test fitting. The manifold is going to be made. Can anyone help us with this? Anybody with a damaged T4 manifold or something they are willing to donate?
Worst comes to worst I can bring mine down there...but I live in NorCal.
Last edited by Yobai Party; 11-05-08 at 01:42 PM.
11-05-08, 02:12 PM
#14
there is no such thing as a stainless manifold that will not crack, even high tensile steel will eventually crack. the best alternative to stock would be a company making a new mold for a higher than stock quality performance cast manifold, such as HKS, which has discontinued them(but they can still be found floating around).
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-05-08 at 02:14 PM.
11-05-08, 07:32 PM
#15
there is no such thing as a stainless manifold that will not crack, even high tensile steel will eventually crack. the best alternative to stock would be a company making a new mold for a higher than stock quality performance cast manifold, such as HKS, which has discontinued them(but they can still be found floating around).
Still looking for a donor car to help fitting a TO4 or a manifold to copy
11-06-08, 12:17 AM
#16
I've got an SS autochrome FD manifold I'll send you if you pay for shipping.. Shouldn't be more then $20. Although it's for an FD, if you extend the two runners from the engine flange about 1"-1.5" I'm sure a nice sized turbo would fit on the 13bt. I'd defnitely be in on that if the quality is at least decent.
I'm sure if you witnessed your manifold doing this and had some cheap no good quality manifold, you'd be like," holy ****! I need me a $1k manifold ASAP!" 
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0BGGBU2Lpyo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0BGGBU2Lpyo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Originally Posted by ITSWILL
I honestly don't think I could bring myself to pay $1000 for a turbo manifold when I am confident enough in my skills to make my
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0BGGBU2Lpyo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0BGGBU2Lpyo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
11-06-08, 08:59 AM
#18
Engine, Not Motor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 29,789
Likes: 0
Received 108 Likes
on
91 Posts
Don't just copy a manifold. If you are going to be building parts, improve upon their design. Concentrate specifically around the wastegate runners as that's where most manifolds make their compromises.
11-06-08, 02:03 PM
#19
there is no such thing as a stainless manifold that will not crack, even high tensile steel will eventually crack. the best alternative to stock would be a company making a new mold for a higher than stock quality performance cast manifold, such as HKS, which has discontinued them(but they can still be found floating around).
11-06-08, 02:07 PM
#20
I've got an SS autochrome FD manifold I'll send you if you pay for shipping.. Shouldn't be more then $20. Although it's for an FD, if you extend the two runners from the engine flange about 1"-1.5" I'm sure a nice sized turbo would fit on the 13bt. I'd defnitely be in on that if the quality is at least decent.
Please chime in if you have a car we can test fit on.
11-06-08, 02:16 PM
#21
My A-spec tubular stainless manifold has a lifetime warranty. Whether it eventually cracks or not - I'm covered. There's something to said about quality vendors also....I'm sure turblown, A-spec and other quality builders back their stuff 110% like I do with my paint work here. You absolutely can't go wrong paying a good price for a good product with great support.
11-06-08, 03:50 PM
#22
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
This sounds like it could be promising. If we can get this and a car to test fit on, I'm sure this will help expedite things. I'll PM you for details.
It won't be a direct copy, of course there will be an improvement in the design.
Please chime in if you have a car we can test fit on.
It won't be a direct copy, of course there will be an improvement in the design.
Please chime in if you have a car we can test fit on.
And despite the other comments, I would be interested in an improved stock replacement manifold, something that I can bolt my BNR tweaked turbo onto and has a provision for or includes the wastegate... as well as still allows the stock exhaust downpipe (or aftermarket version) to bolt on...
just not for $500 when you can buy a new stock manifold for only a couple hundred more than that.
And as Ben mentions... it would be iffy to do anything but a cast manifold, as SS will crack and leak eventually.
11-06-08, 05:00 PM
#23
Probably a couple of us in the north bay that you could test fit on.
And despite the other comments, I would be interested in an improved stock replacement manifold, something that I can bolt my BNR tweaked turbo onto and has a provision for or includes the wastegate... as well as still allows the stock exhaust downpipe (or aftermarket version) to bolt on...
just not for $500 when you can buy a new stock manifold for only a couple hundred more than that.
And as Ben mentions... it would be iffy to do anything but a cast manifold, as SS will crack and leak eventually.
And despite the other comments, I would be interested in an improved stock replacement manifold, something that I can bolt my BNR tweaked turbo onto and has a provision for or includes the wastegate... as well as still allows the stock exhaust downpipe (or aftermarket version) to bolt on...
just not for $500 when you can buy a new stock manifold for only a couple hundred more than that.
And as Ben mentions... it would be iffy to do anything but a cast manifold, as SS will crack and leak eventually.
I'm in Norcal and the fabricator is in Socal, so I wouldn't even be part of the test fitting process. If you can bring your car in for test fitting purposes, you can give him a call, or PM me and I'll give him a call.
Like I said, if there is enough interest in the stock replacement I'm sure he'd be willing to try it out.
Thanks guys
11-06-08, 05:01 PM
#24
My A-spec tubular stainless manifold has a lifetime warranty. Whether it eventually cracks or not - I'm covered. There's something to said about quality vendors also....I'm sure turblown, A-spec and other quality builders back their stuff 110% like I do with my paint work here. You absolutely can't go wrong paying a good price for a good product with great support.
Last edited by Yobai Party; 11-06-08 at 05:17 PM.
11-07-08, 03:08 AM
#25
No money. No love.
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SACRAMENTO
Posts: 2,807
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey you can have my old SSAC Stainless manifold..its got mine super fine cracks in it than I know what to do with. It's for the FC and designed for internal wastegates. Bolts up to stock turbo or bnr or w/e...
All I know is my car felt like it had more power with the SSAC manifold than it does now with my shitty stock one...which I think may be leaking again..(Granted the SSAC manifold started getting cracks after 2500 miles lol no wonder why they were $100)
All I know is my car felt like it had more power with the SSAC manifold than it does now with my shitty stock one...which I think may be leaking again..(Granted the SSAC manifold started getting cracks after 2500 miles lol no wonder why they were $100)