QuantumDuck

Check out the picture...are these butterfly valves supposed to be open or closed when the engine in off?


If they are supposed to be closed when starting the engine...could this be a reason why I can't get started?

I pulled the vacuum hose off the sctuator and put a spit bubble on the hose and when cranking the engine it barely pulled back into the hose...

One more...Is it possable to clean the primary injectors without taking the enitre top half of the motor off?

Thanks

AreExSeven

Closed more than that

Your throttle cable must be to tight, or something internally is making them stick. Remove the throttle cable and see if they stick still. If so, check fro debris around them that would somehow wedge them open.

QuantumDuck

The only thing that opens those are a vacuum hose..they arent connected to the linkage from the cable...and they move freely by hand..

AreExSeven

So you are saying when you step on your gas pedal, it creates a vacuum that opens your throttle plates? I think not. Look harder...

The primary injectors are located on the rotor housings (on a TII at least, not too familiar with N/A's). So you would at least need to take the UIM and TB off.

QuantumDuck

There are 2 sets of throttle plates...the ones you can see in the picture..and another set that are about 3 inches farther inside the intake...the ones that are farther inside move with the throttle..the ones towards the outside move with a vacumm and thats it..thrust me...I've been looking REALLY hard at this thing for awhile now...

Does the TB have to completly removed or can it be moved out of the way enough without having to completly remove it?

AreExSeven

I think when it is seperated from the intake manifold, you can just slide it out of the way. Again, I am not familiar with N/A's

QuantumDuck

I am lucky(?) enough to have a parts car also...the linkage on my runner is completly different than the linkage on my parts car...both are 88se's..on my parts car there is linkage that connects the 2 sets of butterfly's together, but it looks totally different on my runner...sorry for the bad pics...don't buy a $29 digital camera if you want good pictures..linkage1 is from my parts car and linkage 2 in on my runner....wtf?

AreExSeven

Lol. That pic really shows nothing

But as I was saying before, your butterflies are NOT vacuum controlled. This car must have been messed with if there is nothing there. Has it ever run before? Did you buy it like this?

QuantumDuck

Here is the one on my parts car...

QuantumDuck

It was a great runner...do a search on my name in this forum and you'll get the full story....sorry about the pics...it was an attempt...albeit a bad attempt....*LOL*

AreExSeven

Lol, nvm, you edited it.

Jahoo88

My car had a vacuum controlled set of butterflies too. The are controlled by a vac line with a check valve in it. I didnt trust it so i took them out cpmpletely. I think they are supposed to open when the car warms up and stay closed with the car cold, even when you floor it.

It shouldnt matter for start up if they are open or closed because the other set of secondariy plates will still be closed unless you press the gas.

HAILERS

That is N/A throttle body.

Those should be sprung wide open as in the picture when the engine is hot.

This is not a turbo throttle body.

When the engine is cold, they close when starting and will not open until the water temp is up.

This is not a turbo throttle body.

The water thermo device, on the aft end of the throttle body is what causes a vacuum at the double throttle diaphram, when the water tem is cold. When the water temp rises, the water thermo device dumps the vac to atmosphere and the double throttle diaphram ceases to pull the linkage closed, and then the butterflies go wide open as viewed it the picture.

P.S. I have two n/a cars and a turboii. Neither of the double throttle diaphrams work on either n/a. I've never found one in a wrecking yard that worked . And I've looked hard for one. By the way, when you suck on the double throttle diaphram, will the throttle plates close??? If they do, you have an exceptional car.

This is not a turboii throttle body, its a n/a throttle body. It is not the cause of hard starting problems, especially if the car is warmed up.

That is not turboii throttle body. Its different in operation.

NOT

This is not a turbo throttle body.

QuantumDuck

HAILERS...so are what you are saying is NOT a turbo throttle body?...*LOL*

damn..and here I was thinkin I was gettin close to figurin out what my problem is

HAILERS

The removal of the throttle body. I did not understand why you want to remove it????? If you want to remove the primary injectors, remove the whole dynamic chamber. Its not a big deal. Just the five bolts on the intake manifold, two 10mm wrench size bolts on the fpr, one 19mm bolt on the aft end of the fuel rail that holds a fuel line on, the intake duct, and on the other side three 12mm wrench size bolts that hold the dynamic chamber in place, two 10mm size that hold a gold solenoid and hoses on , a water temp sensor, two vac hose on the left back side of the body. Lift up and then remove the throttle cables(easier), two water hose, one of the aft and one on the front side(small) and whatever you do , don't forget to remove the rod that actuates the oil metering pump(held with one cotter key.)
Try using some fuel injector cleaner a few times before removing and cleaning the primary injectors.

HAILERS

I was just having fun and making sure we all know that its not a turboii throttle body that operates differently. The n/a is spring loaded to the open position when the water gets warm or the double throttle diaphram fails.

P.S The removal of just the throttle body vs the whole ball of wax.............is about the same amount of work and you get more access to ????????

Does your car start at all?????Or just a car that floods all the time??

QuantumDuck

oh..is that all? *LOL*

I'd be happy to use some fuel injector cleaner before removing them..the question is how?...the best the car will do is is run up to 1500 rpm and then stall out...

HAILERS

Ewwwwwwww! Only 1500rpm. Has anyone mentioned a bad apex seal(rebuild). Only thing similar that I've experienced, was a corrupt tps sensor on my car once. Car would not respond to throttle at all. Would just idle. Found the tps plungers internals were stuck in the close or fuel cut position. The outer plunger would move in and out but no resistance could be felt because the internal spring was stuck. Car would drive if I removed the tps connector. Unstuck the tps and alls well.

I fear the engine is bad. Easy to figure out if you have a little time and a helper. Remove the lower(LEAD) spark plugs. Put a finger over the front hole. Have the helper turn the engine over(ooops, remove the egi fuse in the engine fuse box first OR the little white connector on the cas). Now do the same with the rear hole. If a apex seal is busted in one rotor, you will readily feel the difference in the pulses of the front rotor vs the rear rotor. Thirty minutes for piece of mind..

Now this next is almost insulting and not meant to be.... Make sure the LEAD plug wires are going to the lower holes and TRAIL wires are going to the top holes. There is a L and a T embossed near each plug hole and the coil assy each have a T1, T2, L1, L2 next to each. Not meant as a insult. Sometimes we neglect the obvious..The car does not really sound like that is the problem...but worth looking into.

QuantumDuck

No insult taken HAILERS...I'm up for tryin anything at this point...

And yes, a bad apex seal has been mentioned before..I'm just tryin to expend all other possabilities at this point...one of those posabilities being a stuck injector...I'll give the finger thing a try as soon as my 'helper' gets back...although when going through the stages of unflooding, I was watching the fuel coming out of the spark plug holes carefully and they all seemed to be coming out evenly...would I have noticed any difference in the amount of fuel or the whooshing sound it made while turning over without the plugs in?

QuantumDuck

wires are as follows....

L1..bottom front
L2.. bottom back
T1..top front
T2..top back

thats looking at the plugs from the drivers side...

AreExSeven

Lol Hailers. Not all of us have the privlege (sp?) of owning multiple RX-7's and having the ability to compare them

And duck, yes those wires are correct.

QuantumDuck

ok I tried HAILERs finger trick...the motor spins great and I felt nice even pulses from both holes...

By sticking my finger in and almost plugging the hole completly, the engine would actually slow down and it would feel like the motor was sucking my finger into the engine..again, it was all happening with nice even pulses, no breaks or bad spots felt..everything was nice and even....

Still sound like a bad seal?

Jahoo88

If all was nice and even then the motor is probably ok. Does the car idle ok and just not rev over 1500rpm?

Does it start, rev to 1500 and die? Give more details pls.

Is your afm connected..... is it working? Maybe a Vac leak. Even a small leak on an NA will make it not idle.

QuantumDuck

Nope...it doesn't idle...

It will start and run rough up to 1500 rpm and then just die...it will do that about 5-6 times before flooding...then I pull the plugs and eng fuse, clear the chambers and it do the 1500rpm and die thing again until it floods...

pardon the newbie question...but what do you mean by 'afm'?

gsracer

Air Flow Meter. It is on the bottom of the stock airbox. Basically there is a little flap in it that opens and shuts and depending on how much air is being sucked into the engine the ecu alters the amount of fuel to dump into the engine.