2-N-D-pink

iTrader: (27)

Basic info....

S5 jspec
Stock ports
Stock turbo
Tail 38mm
standalone
750cc primaries,1680cc secondaries
Ported throttle body and manifolds
3"exhaust
lots of weight reduction.



Well, I went to start my car yesterday and it felt as if it was clogged. Just by the sound of the exhaust I knew something was up. So I revved a little to "clear it out" and it went back to sounding normal.



Since I was starting the car because I very rarely drive it and its always good to keep it running....I let warm up, then I noticed there was coolant in between the turbo and the frame rails (inner fender?). The only place coolant could of made its way to the inner fender is through a small exhaust leak that I have (no gasket between DP flange and turbine housing) so I decided to pull off the exhaust. Once the exhaust was off the car, I looked inside and there was some water inside. So then I started to pull out my DP flange and when I did, it was filled with coolant in the dump tube before the wastegate. (dont know if it makes a difference but I havent started the car in a week)

Most of the coolant spilled when I unbolted the flange but you get the idea





So I dont know where to look exactly to find the leak. Ive own this car for about 7 years now with the same JSPEC and it has smelled sweet before. (randomly though) At one point I thought the problem was my radiator since there was coolant slowly pilling up on the bottom of the fins/ plastic area. So I bought an aluminum Koyorad about three years ago but still smelled like sweet from time to time.

Usually when I start the car itll smoke until its warm or Im driving...While the car is warming up, Ill give it some revs to warm up a little faster and I can see the white smoke kind of vaporize faster than the blue smoke that comes out shortly after I start warming up. Another thing, my turbo is blown (going hybrid very slowly) Not only do I have side to side shaft play but also in and out shaft play. It doesnt spin at idle anymore...it just kinda sits there till I hit the throttle.


My main concern is coolant seals. But Im really hopping there is a way a turbo can leak not just oil but coolant into the wheel as well. The reason I say this is because I started the car with out my down pipe to see If I can see the coolant but there was nothing. The only thing I saw was blue looking type smoke, fire and I died a little from the exhaust gas.


So I dont know what it is. I also started the car with out the radiator cap because I read somewhere in here that if the coolant bubbles its a bad sign but there wasnt any bubbles at all. This may also be a sign....every time (never fails) after I shut off the car there is a hissing sound. To me it sounds like the brake booster but I dont know if anyone else also had this problem before...(listen to the hiss after I shut the car off)


Here is a video that I uploaded yesterday. I have a couple more videos but it takes forever to load it to youtube.




After that video, this is what the turbo looked like.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

start saving for a rebuild, telltale is the choking on startup that clears out after about 10-15 seconds. keep starting the engine about once a week or drain the cooling system completely if you plan to let it sit for a while before you tear into it.

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

The coolant passage in the CHRA is completely isolated from the rotating assembly. There is no way for coolant to reach the rear seal of the turbo without some very conveniently placed cracks.

Unfortunately, I'd have to agree with Karack/RE. The signs point towards coolant entering the combustion chambers.

2-N-D-pink

iTrader: (27)

10-15 seconds of this type of flood would seem like a life time in comparison to the quickness the car starts up with. This was more of a 3 second thing, if that. I immediately knew after starting the car that it didnt sound the same for some reason. Once I revved it cleared out.

I wonder if there is a way to verify for sure that my engine is done for. I would think if the seals are done and its leaking coolant into the engine, that would mean that if I pull the turbo off and let it sit for another week it should have about the same amount of coolant inside the engine. (as long as I block off the water feed and return line) At least enough to make it visible by looking through the exhaust port. Checking the radiator for bubbles sounds OK but I dont feel 100% that is the best way to check. I seen people with blown head gaskets on their piston engine do this but the water would shoot right out of the fill hole.


Thats what I was afraid of...no way for coolant to get out with out some crazy set of coincidence happening. I wouldnt doubt it being cracked though. The person who did this to this turbo did a real hack job. The turbo would over boost and tial was his fix. After that didnt fix the over boost, welding plates inside my downpipe came next.

2-N-D-pink

iTrader: (27)

Also, any ideas on the hissing sound at the end of the video? Just after I shut the engine off.



Thanks

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

do this test when your starting issue is usually apparent, generally after driving the car to fully warmed up then parking it for the night and test it the following day:

remove the EGI fuse inside the engine bay nearest the engine, crank the engine for about 3-5 seconds and remove the leading bottom spark plugs. inspect the spark plugs for wetness, if they have coolant on one or both then you know the engine is ingesting coolant and likely has a bad coolant seal.

i have never seen a turbo crack through to the coolant passage, that is the coolest portion of the turbos and is the least likely for a crack to make it into. only other way coolant can get into the exhaust is through a rotor housing that has been eaten up by electrolysis.

add in that later model 13B engines, the coolant seals rarely live past 25 years and the math adds up to=

you can also pressurize the cooling system to 16psi during the test for more difinitive results.

2-N-D-pink

iTrader: (27)

Thanks Karak ....I dont have an EGI fuse though. Part of my weight reduction was to get rid of the stock chassis harness and build my own...but I do get your point. So I pulled the fuse to the microtech after I let the car sit for 2 days and when I cranked the engine for a good 5 secs, I looked at the back of the turbo and saw the coolant coming out of the top hole from turbine housing/wastegate part of the turbo. So its definitely coming from the rear rotor. I also took the plugs out to verify that its only one rotor.


Electrolysis...Hmmm, I have good grounding but I dont know how good of a ground the last owner of this engine had at who knows when. AWR Racing has a PDF file on testing for electrolysis in cooling systems. I think Ill check for that as well. The only problem is that my battery is in the compartment and I dont have a long enough cable to reach both the battery ground and coolant in the engine bay.


The strange part is that Im really not over heating. In this hot Florida weather 95+ degrees every day, the car runs and cruises at 88 degrees Celsius (190.4 Fahrenheit) Mazda says it should be at 85 degrees Celsius. At full boost, in this weather, it gets to 90-92 (196-197.6 Fahrenheit) Its a over what Mazda says but Im also blocking air to my radiator with my front mount. A friend of mine has a street ported jspec with water jacket mod and an N flow radiator and he's constantly running at 92 Celsius. This is at idle, cruise and full boost. I think before I throw in the towel, Im going to replace the o-rings in between the lower intake manifold and engine. There is also a possibility that it could come from there and into my intake ports. If that doesnt work and since the is still running good, I may part the engine to get another one.




-Chris

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

coolant leaks in these later model 13B engines can work in several ways and don't always necessarily give overheating as a symptom. many third gens for example when the water seal is barely compromised usually give these symptoms.

electrolysis isn't always caused by poor grounding, it can also be caused by a previous owner who ran tap water with their coolant for long periods of time. tap water generally has a bit of hard minerals in it which can cause the electrolysis almost immediately and just gets worse over time. the original engine in my TII had severe electrolysis failure, one portion drilled directly into the spark plug hole in the rotor housing and the other ate through the exhaust passage in the other housing, it was also the most dramatic electrolysis failure i have seen to date including all customer builds. electrolysis generally attacks the hottest parts of the rotor housings which is around the exhaust port and the spark plugs.

sorry for the bad news.

2-N-D-pink

iTrader: (27)

Yeah, Ive been running 70% distilled water and 30% coolant since I got the engine. But as far as previous owner..ill never know until I pull the engine and inspect it.

And in all honesty its not really bad news for me. I think I got way more out of this engine than what I paid for. When I got this engine, all the studs for the engine were numbered in their sequence. Thats a sign that the engine has been rebuild once before. I ran 13.8 with top mount, stock injectors, a walboro 255 and exhaust also daily it for 5 years then put it down for 2. Its been like this since day one...so I think its time for rebuild (with a streetport). Getting another Jspec isnt in my cash range at the moment.

I saw a thread you have on parts list for a rebuild. I may just go with replacing whats broken. Keeping my apex seals and side seals...Im not sure what my compression is but when I pulled the plugs and cranked the engine, it sounded pretty strong. After I check compression I can decide whether to keep the same apex seals or not.

Also, what you said about a bad case of electrolysis in your TII engine, what does that look like. I wont be able to grab and ohm meter and test for electrolysis. So what am I looking for?


-Chris

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

if it has OEM 3 piece seals toss em in the can and replace them. they're just too fragile and when they wear enough they fall out of the rotor. have a core sitting on the floor from an n/a car that spat out a 3 piece seal from exactly that reason. losing a rotor and housing sucks worse than just the seals.

if you really are tight on money the atkins seals are still as good or better than OEM IMO, but still not ideal for moderate to more extreme turbo rotaries. RA super seals aren't much more expensive, or if you just drag race the car then there is even better yet for still even less than a new set of OEM seals. OEM are the best hands down for longevity, but not even remotely the best when even tiny amounts of detonation is thrown in.