Convertible Turbo II Conversion
01-05-06, 02:16 PM
#26
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I have a turbo vert and am running on the N/A TRANNY AND REAR END.. I am well over 400 HP, 20psi on a T70, and have had no problems with the tranny or rear end at all... HOWEVER I DO NOT LAUNCH the car. So Far no problem and I've had the setup for about 2 years.... Good luck with everything... Theres nothing like boosting with the Top down.
Btw, I do suggest that you swap the COMPLETE turbo driveline, as that will give you piece of mind... I would do it, but Im tooo lazy to drop the rear subframe.. Maybe when and IF I actually blow the rear end...
Btw, I do suggest that you swap the COMPLETE turbo driveline, as that will give you piece of mind... I would do it, but Im tooo lazy to drop the rear subframe.. Maybe when and IF I actually blow the rear end...
Last edited by MARTIN; 01-05-06 at 02:29 PM.
01-06-06, 08:10 PM
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It would seem that I have been forced to admit defeat. I was wrong in saying that ALL verts came with LSD as some of you and the FAQ have said. In fact it says, "NO verts came with LSD". This revelation puzzled me; so I did a little research.
It would seem I just forgot a word ..... I should have said "all J-spec verts came with LSD" and they were all Turbo [(for just one of many references I discovered go to "http://www.rx7uknet.dircon.co.uk/rx7_fc3s_3.html" (it is not the best site I found but if you're really interested in the subject you can run a search for yourself)]. Apparently due to emissions regulations in the US the increased weight would have pushed the car into gas guzzler territory, so american buyers only got the 146 bhp (bumped up to 160 for s5) naturally aspirated Convertible; where as the the japanese market vert only got a 185bhp TurboII motor and an option for either a 5-speed manual or 4-speed TII Automatic tranny that America never got (s5 version had about the same power as US s5 TII - 200bhp).
This can only mean one of two things: Either the previous owner of my car installed the exact differencial that the TII should have [although he kept very good records of all work that had been done to the car and I have those now; they say nothing about a swap (thus my incorrect thought that all verts had LSD)] or it may in fact be possible that the factory made an error and installed the wrong differencial in the vehicle because all the other parts (aside from my halfshafts) are N/A American Spec parts. Either way I appologize for the mistake and I'd still appreciate some of your thoughts on the project. BTW, a question for those that have done V8 swaps - what is the largest block you've put into your 2nd gens?
It would seem I just forgot a word ..... I should have said "all J-spec verts came with LSD" and they were all Turbo [(for just one of many references I discovered go to "http://www.rx7uknet.dircon.co.uk/rx7_fc3s_3.html" (it is not the best site I found but if you're really interested in the subject you can run a search for yourself)]. Apparently due to emissions regulations in the US the increased weight would have pushed the car into gas guzzler territory, so american buyers only got the 146 bhp (bumped up to 160 for s5) naturally aspirated Convertible; where as the the japanese market vert only got a 185bhp TurboII motor and an option for either a 5-speed manual or 4-speed TII Automatic tranny that America never got (s5 version had about the same power as US s5 TII - 200bhp).
This can only mean one of two things: Either the previous owner of my car installed the exact differencial that the TII should have [although he kept very good records of all work that had been done to the car and I have those now; they say nothing about a swap (thus my incorrect thought that all verts had LSD)] or it may in fact be possible that the factory made an error and installed the wrong differencial in the vehicle because all the other parts (aside from my halfshafts) are N/A American Spec parts. Either way I appologize for the mistake and I'd still appreciate some of your thoughts on the project. BTW, a question for those that have done V8 swaps - what is the largest block you've put into your 2nd gens?
01-06-06, 11:08 PM
#28
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Originally Posted by Osaka Kasuga
a question for those that have done V8 swaps - what is the largest block you've put into your 2nd gens?
01-07-06, 12:11 AM
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i'm glad the arguement ended. There is no reason to get "smart", we're all here to help eachother out and give suggestions to eachother.
yes, you can make it a turbo with the parts you have, but it would not be a complete tii swap, as suggested. I have a 88 vert with a tii engine, na drivetrain, and mine has held up just fine for the 6 months i've owned the car. No regrets for buying it, and hey, look at it this way, if your na tranny goes out, its an oppertunity to change the drivetrain to a tii.
Point is, I have got so much help from everyone in here, and as soon as i learn more about rx-7's, i'll do my best to try to help out other members on this forum.
yes, you can make it a turbo with the parts you have, but it would not be a complete tii swap, as suggested. I have a 88 vert with a tii engine, na drivetrain, and mine has held up just fine for the 6 months i've owned the car. No regrets for buying it, and hey, look at it this way, if your na tranny goes out, its an oppertunity to change the drivetrain to a tii.
Point is, I have got so much help from everyone in here, and as soon as i learn more about rx-7's, i'll do my best to try to help out other members on this forum.
01-07-06, 12:36 AM
#30
Originally Posted by Osaka Kasuga
Under the advice of rx007racer I tried the test. I jacked up the back of my car and spun one of the wheels. Much to my lack of surprise, both wheels spin the same direction. hmmm... It's almost as if they are connected by something, I wonder what that could be....(look it might not be the norm, but facts don't lie, whether it's aftermarket or not I can't say, but it is LSD, it uses the same casing as the TII viscous style, and it was on there when I bought it used. Now that we've cleared that up....could I finally get some ideas on optional ways to do the TII swap (even if unconventional). Like I said In the beginning; I'd like to know basic ways of doing it (not half-assed like some have mentioned but basic). First laying out exactly what is needed - as Icemark already has (thank you for that) and moving on to the optional goodies now. The suggestion has been made in another forum to use the independant suspension from the GTO (thoughts on that?). That and ideas like the Ford 9" differencial are what I'm aiming for. If it's at all possible, could we maybe get beyond this pointless banter and try that now? please?
then maybe you can explain why my vert's diff spins both tires the same way when i jack it up and spin one of the tires? I KNOW it is an open diff because the car has NEVER been modified, sometimes i wonder if it has even been worked on since it was bought brand new. Explination? or are you going to give me some *** hole remark that has nothing to do with what i asked you? i say that the tire spinning trick is complete BS and is too vague of a test to be definate.
Theres no way you put doglong box gears in a conventional tranny case with out serious modification, and for what? completely pointless and i call BS on that one considering it would be cheaper and more intelligent to just buy a 6,000$ HKS dog box and slap it in.
and lastly, the Effect of an LSD is much more experianced when going through a corner at maximum traction than that of just burning out down the damn street, any idiot that has driven a car long enough knows, LSD's are better for cornering because it makes the loss of traction more predictable as well as the limits, Open differentials are better for regular street DD driving and feels more comfortable going through corners and driving in the rain(<- especially driving in the rain, lol)
If you want to bitch and complain because your not getting the answers YOU want, that start your own damn forum, until then, either take our advise, which apparently from what i hear is the best on the net for RX7's, or **** off
01-08-06, 04:18 AM
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Hey Tournapart, i am sorry, but i really don't have an answer to your 1st question. As far as i knew spinning the rear wheels was the best way to tell if your car is limited slip or not (without using much time or money). In this case though, if it really is just an open diff. and spinning both wheels in the same direction, that leaves me somewhat perplexed. Hopefully someone here might be able to explain this phenomena for both our sake.
About my tranny (and this is the only time i'm going into any detail about it). -
Not once did i say that the job was easy or that it didn't take a BUNCH of modification. In all, the whole project took about 2 months with three of us working for about 10 hours every saturday (almost 80 hrs of work or 240 man hours). The gear swap (this is by no means a full parts or 'how to' list, and in truth i really don't have the time or energy to make one) requires gutting the entire transmission, cutting away some sections(to make room for the new gears), making custom (larger) replacement parts for those missing sections and welding them into place, as well as re-enforcing the structural integrity of the casing itself and creating custom joints for the gears in order to use an oem manual shifter with them. The flywheel and clutch plate were also replaced with lighter/stronger ones and under the hood we replaced a few other things including the master cylinder and a few hoses. In my case (although i'm not sure if it was required or not), we also fabricated a custom mount for the transmission to support any extra weight and to virtually hide any visible evidence that we modified it .
The only real reason i did this instead to just buying the whole transmission is that i wanted a tranny that, in the long run, could handle over 750hp (just in case i decide to go that high in the future), last a lot longer than normal trannys, and most importantly - look and feel almost the same as the stock tranny while driving it (the actual HKS tranny feels almost automatic, there is NO H-pattern shifting and NO clutch pedal required; without those i feel like i have less control over the car - it was really just a matter of preference). By adapting the rx7's transmission for the HKS gears we were able to get the shifter and the clutch to feel almost stock as well as making it look nearly stock from both top and bottom(other than the extra mounting brace).
Before anybody asks; No, we didn't take any pictures (sorry, at the time we just wanted to get the job done) and No, I would never do it again - it was way to much of a pain in the butt.
As far as price is concerned; $6000!! - if we are talking about the same tranny, I really got ripped off. I custom ordered only the gears, a flywheel, a clutch plate and a few other things to help in the adaptation and it cost me over $8000 direct from HKS (this doesn't even include the custom parts i got from other sources); and although it was slightly cheaper at the time i made my made my purchase, the whole transmission is going for $12,226.50 right now at "https://www.raceonusa.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1942".
Whether this is the dogmission i've heard of or not i can't be sure, but when i bought them i was told that they were same gears were used in the 94 lemans rx7. They may have been lying just to be sure i'd buy it (although I really don't know and in truth all i needed in order to be convinced were the specs of the tranny). Is this the same transmission? Maybe not....any of you know for sure?
Either way, unless you really love your rx7 and want to have a massive amount of horsepower and you also have a lot of extra funding, I would not recommened this specific transmission. There are quite a few others out there that cost much less and can handle up to 500hp (heck, as far as i know even the PBS MDR-1 race transmission would cost less - last time i looked you could get your hands on one of those for under $6500 but that was over a year ago they may be slightly more now)
I really hope this clears up any speculation or questions you may have had. If not, you're out of luck, thats all i'm writing on the subject. I entitled this thread "Convertible Turbo II Conversion" and the type of tranny (other than whether it is N/A or TII) really has nothing to do with that subject. A better question to pose first would be something like (and I myself have been flippantly wondering this): Is there really any difference in the mechanics between the USA spec Vert and USA spec N/A coupe? or perhaps... Does either handle turns better than the other?(is there a difference in slolam speed?) Also, If any of these specs are different - Do they change anything about the swap? Once these things have been determined and compared to the TurboII specs we can truely come up with an accurate assessment of what needs to be replaced and what does not. Specifically for the Convertible version as that is the vehicle for which i created this thread. Domo Arigato!!
About my tranny (and this is the only time i'm going into any detail about it). -
Not once did i say that the job was easy or that it didn't take a BUNCH of modification. In all, the whole project took about 2 months with three of us working for about 10 hours every saturday (almost 80 hrs of work or 240 man hours). The gear swap (this is by no means a full parts or 'how to' list, and in truth i really don't have the time or energy to make one) requires gutting the entire transmission, cutting away some sections(to make room for the new gears), making custom (larger) replacement parts for those missing sections and welding them into place, as well as re-enforcing the structural integrity of the casing itself and creating custom joints for the gears in order to use an oem manual shifter with them. The flywheel and clutch plate were also replaced with lighter/stronger ones and under the hood we replaced a few other things including the master cylinder and a few hoses. In my case (although i'm not sure if it was required or not), we also fabricated a custom mount for the transmission to support any extra weight and to virtually hide any visible evidence that we modified it .
The only real reason i did this instead to just buying the whole transmission is that i wanted a tranny that, in the long run, could handle over 750hp (just in case i decide to go that high in the future), last a lot longer than normal trannys, and most importantly - look and feel almost the same as the stock tranny while driving it (the actual HKS tranny feels almost automatic, there is NO H-pattern shifting and NO clutch pedal required; without those i feel like i have less control over the car - it was really just a matter of preference). By adapting the rx7's transmission for the HKS gears we were able to get the shifter and the clutch to feel almost stock as well as making it look nearly stock from both top and bottom(other than the extra mounting brace).
Before anybody asks; No, we didn't take any pictures (sorry, at the time we just wanted to get the job done) and No, I would never do it again - it was way to much of a pain in the butt.
As far as price is concerned; $6000!! - if we are talking about the same tranny, I really got ripped off. I custom ordered only the gears, a flywheel, a clutch plate and a few other things to help in the adaptation and it cost me over $8000 direct from HKS (this doesn't even include the custom parts i got from other sources); and although it was slightly cheaper at the time i made my made my purchase, the whole transmission is going for $12,226.50 right now at "https://www.raceonusa.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1942".
Whether this is the dogmission i've heard of or not i can't be sure, but when i bought them i was told that they were same gears were used in the 94 lemans rx7. They may have been lying just to be sure i'd buy it (although I really don't know and in truth all i needed in order to be convinced were the specs of the tranny). Is this the same transmission? Maybe not....any of you know for sure?
Either way, unless you really love your rx7 and want to have a massive amount of horsepower and you also have a lot of extra funding, I would not recommened this specific transmission. There are quite a few others out there that cost much less and can handle up to 500hp (heck, as far as i know even the PBS MDR-1 race transmission would cost less - last time i looked you could get your hands on one of those for under $6500 but that was over a year ago they may be slightly more now)
I really hope this clears up any speculation or questions you may have had. If not, you're out of luck, thats all i'm writing on the subject. I entitled this thread "Convertible Turbo II Conversion" and the type of tranny (other than whether it is N/A or TII) really has nothing to do with that subject. A better question to pose first would be something like (and I myself have been flippantly wondering this): Is there really any difference in the mechanics between the USA spec Vert and USA spec N/A coupe? or perhaps... Does either handle turns better than the other?(is there a difference in slolam speed?) Also, If any of these specs are different - Do they change anything about the swap? Once these things have been determined and compared to the TurboII specs we can truely come up with an accurate assessment of what needs to be replaced and what does not. Specifically for the Convertible version as that is the vehicle for which i created this thread. Domo Arigato!!
01-08-06, 06:33 AM
#32
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Basicly the reason for switching drivetrains is because the tranny is the weakspot in the N/As and can't hold the torque of a modded TII for very long when driven hard. That and the LSD rear.
Since you already have a strong tranny and a LSD rear you don't need to change the drive train. You can try to find N/A flywheel to mate to the TII engine (I'm not sure on the specifics of that, but those threads talking about using a n/a drivetrain should tell you. Or since you're so comfortable modding your tranny you could find a way to adapt the larger clutch from a TII tranny to work with the stock TII flywheel.
[edit] Oh, by the way. If you have crappy tires and an open diff both tires can break traction doing a burnout. My friends vert did that so he put it up on jacks, and it turns out it was an open diff. My vert only spins one tire.
Since you already have a strong tranny and a LSD rear you don't need to change the drive train. You can try to find N/A flywheel to mate to the TII engine (I'm not sure on the specifics of that, but those threads talking about using a n/a drivetrain should tell you. Or since you're so comfortable modding your tranny you could find a way to adapt the larger clutch from a TII tranny to work with the stock TII flywheel.
[edit] Oh, by the way. If you have crappy tires and an open diff both tires can break traction doing a burnout. My friends vert did that so he put it up on jacks, and it turns out it was an open diff. My vert only spins one tire.
Last edited by Kingbob; 01-08-06 at 06:36 AM.
01-08-06, 12:46 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by Kingbob
Basicly the reason for switching drivetrains is because the tranny is the weakspot in the N/As and can't hold the torque of a modded TII for very long when driven hard. That and the LSD rear.
Since you already have a strong tranny and a LSD rear you don't need to change the drive train. You can try to find N/A flywheel to mate to the TII engine (I'm not sure on the specifics of that, but those threads talking about using a n/a drivetrain should tell you. Or since you're so comfortable modding your tranny you could find a way to adapt the larger clutch from a TII tranny to work with the stock TII flywheel.
[edit] Oh, by the way. If you have crappy tires and an open diff both tires can break traction doing a burnout. My friends vert did that so he put it up on jacks, and it turns out it was an open diff. My vert only spins one tire.
Since you already have a strong tranny and a LSD rear you don't need to change the drive train. You can try to find N/A flywheel to mate to the TII engine (I'm not sure on the specifics of that, but those threads talking about using a n/a drivetrain should tell you. Or since you're so comfortable modding your tranny you could find a way to adapt the larger clutch from a TII tranny to work with the stock TII flywheel.
[edit] Oh, by the way. If you have crappy tires and an open diff both tires can break traction doing a burnout. My friends vert did that so he put it up on jacks, and it turns out it was an open diff. My vert only spins one tire.
01-08-06, 12:51 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by Kingbob
Basicly the reason for switching drivetrains is because the tranny is the weakspot in the N/As and can't hold the torque of a modded TII for very long when driven hard. That and the LSD rear.
Since you already have a strong tranny and a LSD rear you don't need to change the drive train. You can try to find N/A flywheel to mate to the TII engine (I'm not sure on the specifics of that, but those threads talking about using a n/a drivetrain should tell you. Or since you're so comfortable modding your tranny you could find a way to adapt the larger clutch from a TII tranny to work with the stock TII flywheel.
[edit] Oh, by the way. If you have crappy tires and an open diff both tires can break traction doing a burnout. My friends vert did that so he put it up on jacks, and it turns out it was an open diff. My vert only spins one tire.
Since you already have a strong tranny and a LSD rear you don't need to change the drive train. You can try to find N/A flywheel to mate to the TII engine (I'm not sure on the specifics of that, but those threads talking about using a n/a drivetrain should tell you. Or since you're so comfortable modding your tranny you could find a way to adapt the larger clutch from a TII tranny to work with the stock TII flywheel.
[edit] Oh, by the way. If you have crappy tires and an open diff both tires can break traction doing a burnout. My friends vert did that so he put it up on jacks, and it turns out it was an open diff. My vert only spins one tire.
01-08-06, 02:14 PM
#35
Today, 04:18 AM
Been up all night parts racing on the internet?
You still around telling us how smart you are?
BTW, you've been working on rotaries for 2 yrs?
What did you do with your vert for the first 5 years you owned it?
Pretty damn reliable RX7 vert, I'd say.
Tell us the truth finally. You are 15 years old and you always wanted an RX7 ever since you saw Fasterer and Furiousererer, right?
Been up all night parts racing on the internet?
Originally Posted by Osaka Kasuga
Hey Tournapart
Not once did i say that the job was easy or that it didn't take a BUNCH of modification...2 months ... three of us working...10 hours every saturday ... in truth i really don't have the time or energy...we also fabricated a custom mount ...could handle over 750hp ...No, we didn't take any pictures ...as price... $6000!! ...I really got ripped off.... and it cost me over $8000 direct from HKS... the custom parts i got from other sources)......unless you really love your rx7 ...I really hope this clears up...you're out of luck...all i'm writing on the subject...wah wah wah wah...wah wah wah wah....etc....etc...etc...ad nauseum... ad infinitum..Domo Arigato!!
Not once did i say that the job was easy or that it didn't take a BUNCH of modification...2 months ... three of us working...10 hours every saturday ... in truth i really don't have the time or energy...we also fabricated a custom mount ...could handle over 750hp ...No, we didn't take any pictures ...as price... $6000!! ...I really got ripped off.... and it cost me over $8000 direct from HKS... the custom parts i got from other sources)......unless you really love your rx7 ...I really hope this clears up...you're out of luck...all i'm writing on the subject...wah wah wah wah...wah wah wah wah....etc....etc...etc...ad nauseum... ad infinitum..Domo Arigato!!
You still around telling us how smart you are?
Originally Posted by Osaka Kasuga
I've worked on cars for 12 years (rotary for almost 2)...I bought the car used 7 years ago...
BTW, you've been working on rotaries for 2 yrs?
What did you do with your vert for the first 5 years you owned it?
Pretty damn reliable RX7 vert, I'd say.
Tell us the truth finally. You are 15 years old and you always wanted an RX7 ever since you saw Fasterer and Furiousererer, right?
01-09-06, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jackhild59
Today, 04:18 AM
...BTW, you've been working on rotaries for 2 yrs?
What did you do with your vert for the first 5 years you owned it?
Pretty damn reliable RX7 vert, I'd say.
Tell us the truth finally. You are 15 years old and you always wanted an RX7 ever since you saw Fasterer and Furiousererer, right?
...BTW, you've been working on rotaries for 2 yrs?
What did you do with your vert for the first 5 years you owned it?
Pretty damn reliable RX7 vert, I'd say.
Tell us the truth finally. You are 15 years old and you always wanted an RX7 ever since you saw Fasterer and Furiousererer, right?
I really wish I was 15 again; but as they say, "Wish in one hand; **** in the other and see which fills up first". No, truth is I was born July 12, 1962. (see profile before making odd comments)
"Fasterer and Furiousererer"? Would you maybe be talking about "2 Fast 2 Furious"?( or maybe 'The Fast and the Furious' they just kinda run together in my head) if so, sorry to burst your bubble but that was a 3rd gen. Also, If I were to buy a car based on a movie; that wouldn't be it. I'd sooner buy a 67' Mustang Fastback and name it Eleanor or a 69' Charger with a sweet paint job and name it General Lee. Heck I'd prob even buy Jed Clampett's truck before I bought that particular rx7 [by the way, unless you are a true drag racer and have done everything else possible for Hp gain; Nitrous (as used in the fast furious cars) is an ignorant upgrade and it will destroy your motor unless you have the block prof. upgraded to accept nitrous and even then there's no guarantees].
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