Chevy 350 Engine in my RX7
12-15-01, 10:14 PM
#52
Full Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You americans and your stupid V8's. In my experience A rotary lasts just as long as a pos V8. The two RX-7's (86 NA's) that I've owned had over 200,000km's on the clock before they quit. I can't think of any domestic V8's that wouldn't be completly bagged at 200,000kms. I bet someone in the states has raped at least one of every vehicle type ever produced with a big ol' ford V8. If you want a V8 please sell the rotary instead of killing it
12-15-01, 10:42 PM
#53
Full Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The Greater Wisconsin Area
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I bought an 89 GXL for $300. It has a bad engine and I dont want to waste my time swapping in another non turbo rotary. I would much rather have a fast car. Its a beauty of a car. Only has 90k on it, all options, leather, you name it.
12-15-01, 10:49 PM
#54
Full Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lees Summit, MO
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Relax, guys,
I would't swap a V8 into a pristine rex. Most engine swappers start with a base car that's essentially a roller. I wouldn't cut up a restored '32 Ford to make a Hi Boy out of it.
I would't swap a V8 into a pristine rex. Most engine swappers start with a base car that's essentially a roller. I wouldn't cut up a restored '32 Ford to make a Hi Boy out of it.
12-16-01, 08:43 AM
#55
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pikesville, MD
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Mazdarules
You americans and your stupid V8's. In my experience A rotary lasts just as long as a pos V8. The two RX-7's (86 NA's) that I've owned had over 200,000km's on the clock before they quit. I can't think of any domestic V8's that wouldn't be completly bagged at 200,000kms. I bet someone in the states has raped at least one of every vehicle type ever produced with a big ol' ford V8. If you want a V8 please sell the rotary instead of killing it
You americans and your stupid V8's. In my experience A rotary lasts just as long as a pos V8. The two RX-7's (86 NA's) that I've owned had over 200,000km's on the clock before they quit. I can't think of any domestic V8's that wouldn't be completly bagged at 200,000kms. I bet someone in the states has raped at least one of every vehicle type ever produced with a big ol' ford V8. If you want a V8 please sell the rotary instead of killing it
Now, as to your last idiotic statement: What happens when a basic, no accessory 2nd gen RX7 dies? it's not wotrht SQUAT to anyone, and NO money can be gotten out of it. If it was so goddamn precious, that wouldn't be the case. In fact, after having mine raced for a year successfully, and having it repainted, I found it wasn't worth the cost of the suspension parts to sell when the rotary died. I certainly didn't have the money then (with a then $7/hr job) to pay $2500+ for a fresh 145hp STOCK 13b (and wasn't about to trust a used salvage yard engine). So I spent less than that and got a 400 hp, very FUN car again. If you want the cars to stay ******* rotary, YOU come up here and PAY me to KEEP it that way after it dies! If you're not willing to DO that, then shut the **** up about it!
For years I've been nice about this **** when dealing with small minded morons like you. I LIKE rotary cars. I've said this over and over. I'd love a 3rd gen. I'd really like to find another RX3 coupe. But I've had it up to here with brain dead dweebs who like to spend MY money for me, and treat a mass produced automobile as a goddamn religious shrine! KNOCK IT OFF!
12-16-01, 09:12 AM
#56
Rotary Freak
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sinking Spring Pa.
Posts: 1,790
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by ChrisV
For years I've been nice about this **** when dealing with small minded morons like you. I LIKE rotary cars. I've said this over and over. I'd love a 3rd gen. I'd really like to find another RX3 coupe. But I've had it up to here with brain dead dweebs who like to spend MY money for me, and treat a mass produced automobile as a goddamn religious shrine! KNOCK IT OFF!
For years I've been nice about this **** when dealing with small minded morons like you. I LIKE rotary cars. I've said this over and over. I'd love a 3rd gen. I'd really like to find another RX3 coupe. But I've had it up to here with brain dead dweebs who like to spend MY money for me, and treat a mass produced automobile as a goddamn religious shrine! KNOCK IT OFF!
12-28-01, 12:54 PM
#58
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
You know since this thread just won't die, I thought of something to add...
You never hear of someone saying, "you know I think I am gonna put a 5.0 mustang motor into my 'vette. Everyone knows the 5.0 will last longer than the 'vette motor."
or
"You know my Dodge truck with the 360 is really eating oil, maybe I will put in a Chevy 440 and turbo hydromatic into my truck instead, the Chevy motor has more HP after I bolt on extras like new intakes and carbs right?"
I wonder why I don't hear that?
Motor swaps are motor swaps according to several people (not me though.)
You never hear of someone saying, "you know I think I am gonna put a 5.0 mustang motor into my 'vette. Everyone knows the 5.0 will last longer than the 'vette motor."
or
"You know my Dodge truck with the 360 is really eating oil, maybe I will put in a Chevy 440 and turbo hydromatic into my truck instead, the Chevy motor has more HP after I bolt on extras like new intakes and carbs right?"
I wonder why I don't hear that?
Motor swaps are motor swaps according to several people (not me though.)
12-28-01, 08:53 PM
#59
Full Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lees Summit, MO
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Icemark,
Since this horse won't die, we might as well keep kickin' it's ***!
I'm an old timer. I started playing with cars because I love them, and I couldn't afford to hire someone to do it for me. When I was a teenager, the swaps you speak of were in fact quite common, maybe not the exact motor auto swaps you spoke of, but everyone had their own favorite powerplant. Chevy definately had a better idea with part interchangeability. Everything fits everything(almost), cheaper to hotrod therefore most of us street urchins ran Chevy motors. But, Chrysler made some badass power plants, and if you had a hemi in ANYTHING, you were a god. Fords were more a labor of love, a little restrictive on the exhaust side. You could make 'em fast, just more work and money. But they were bullet-proof. Usualy what you swapped into what was dictated by your bank account.( Pretty much the same today, right?)
Peace
Since this horse won't die, we might as well keep kickin' it's ***!
I'm an old timer. I started playing with cars because I love them, and I couldn't afford to hire someone to do it for me. When I was a teenager, the swaps you speak of were in fact quite common, maybe not the exact motor auto swaps you spoke of, but everyone had their own favorite powerplant. Chevy definately had a better idea with part interchangeability. Everything fits everything(almost), cheaper to hotrod therefore most of us street urchins ran Chevy motors. But, Chrysler made some badass power plants, and if you had a hemi in ANYTHING, you were a god. Fords were more a labor of love, a little restrictive on the exhaust side. You could make 'em fast, just more work and money. But they were bullet-proof. Usualy what you swapped into what was dictated by your bank account.( Pretty much the same today, right?)
Peace
12-28-01, 09:07 PM
#60
Full Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lees Summit, MO
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What we were really after, more than what motor was swapped into what car, was to make something totaly different, something that no one else had. That was the fun.
12-28-01, 09:08 PM
#61
Rotary Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ft. Worth, Texas, USA, Earth, Solar System...
Posts: 1,273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Re: Re: It is his car!
Originally posted by ChrisV
Since it's your "opinion" and anecdotal, then it is as worthless to anyone outside your head as it is for me to tell you that I've owned over a hundred cars, and worked on hundreds more, and the Domestic cars have given me less problems, both as daily drives and as race cars. And out of that number, I've owned considerably more imports than domestics. But even with those numbers, it's anecdotal and means SQUAT to this argument.
That being said, I'd love to install the engine in your SC400 into an AE86 Corolla, a Lotus Super 7 clone, or even a street rod, as it's extremely compact (the Ford 302 is smaller than the BMW 4 liter and the Nissan 4.5 liter V8, and even the Ferrari 3.5 liter, but the Toyota 4 liter V8 is considerably smaller yet, being essentially the size of 2 1.6 liter 4AGEs on a common crank...).
Since it's your "opinion" and anecdotal, then it is as worthless to anyone outside your head as it is for me to tell you that I've owned over a hundred cars, and worked on hundreds more, and the Domestic cars have given me less problems, both as daily drives and as race cars. And out of that number, I've owned considerably more imports than domestics. But even with those numbers, it's anecdotal and means SQUAT to this argument.
That being said, I'd love to install the engine in your SC400 into an AE86 Corolla, a Lotus Super 7 clone, or even a street rod, as it's extremely compact (the Ford 302 is smaller than the BMW 4 liter and the Nissan 4.5 liter V8, and even the Ferrari 3.5 liter, but the Toyota 4 liter V8 is considerably smaller yet, being essentially the size of 2 1.6 liter 4AGEs on a common crank...).
12-28-01, 09:10 PM
#62
Rotary Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ft. Worth, Texas, USA, Earth, Solar System...
Posts: 1,273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by ChrisV
If the shoe fits, wear it, bubba. You want to limit your brain, and think that being narrowminded is a virtue, go right ahead. You're the one being insulting to people who enjoy building cars, and then get off telling me *I'M* being insulting?
When did I talk "****" then kiss ***? i merely showed were people were factually wrong, then told why I did it, and why it still worked. I told Iceman that his "opinions" weren't a universal truth and why, and continued the conversation about his engine, as it is relevant to my interests: ALL cars.
But here you are, insisting on being a fucktard, and acting like being a narrowminded bigot is a good thing. It's a CAR, not a religion. Having fun and driving what you like, while not telling others what to drive are the keys. You like your car, great. I like rotaries, too. Have for decades. But you probably missed that part, as reading comprehension seems to be an issue with you. Maybe english isn't your first language... [/B]
If the shoe fits, wear it, bubba. You want to limit your brain, and think that being narrowminded is a virtue, go right ahead. You're the one being insulting to people who enjoy building cars, and then get off telling me *I'M* being insulting?
When did I talk "****" then kiss ***? i merely showed were people were factually wrong, then told why I did it, and why it still worked. I told Iceman that his "opinions" weren't a universal truth and why, and continued the conversation about his engine, as it is relevant to my interests: ALL cars.
But here you are, insisting on being a fucktard, and acting like being a narrowminded bigot is a good thing. It's a CAR, not a religion. Having fun and driving what you like, while not telling others what to drive are the keys. You like your car, great. I like rotaries, too. Have for decades. But you probably missed that part, as reading comprehension seems to be an issue with you. Maybe english isn't your first language... [/B]
12-28-01, 09:21 PM
#64
Rotary Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ft. Worth, Texas, USA, Earth, Solar System...
Posts: 1,273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by mprime
Man this is all going down hill. Im sorry but Im in ChrisV's corner on this if you love cars and have been around racing you know that theres all kinds of freaked out ways to do things. And thats cool cause it works for those guys and it's FUN thats the whole point.
But theres always someone who cant let some things go, like a freind of mine who thinks VW is the end all be all car manufacturer of all times. He thinks they are so easy to work on and blah blah and some are but I own a VW and its nice but its also a pain in the ***. Its no different than the old Win Vs. Mac tried old crap you see. Im a mac user so people think I hate Dell, Im like huh? I just think the OS Dells use is crap and it's not for me. SO WHAT
But unfortunately theres alway people who have to be like PUT a V8 in a RX7 WHAT!!! But its not your freaking car. So you dont like V8's ok fine but if some one wants to play around at trying it out then thats cool, that's what is fun about cars!
Hell if you want to be so different than everybody else in the world then do the following: drive on the left side of the road with a rotary engine in your car. Use a Mac at work. Work at night. Be a vegetarian. And speak in Latin when talking with people.
Then you can say look theres no body else like me. Oh really you mean your the only human in the world thats like you... huh wow
Man this is all going down hill. Im sorry but Im in ChrisV's corner on this if you love cars and have been around racing you know that theres all kinds of freaked out ways to do things. And thats cool cause it works for those guys and it's FUN thats the whole point.
But theres always someone who cant let some things go, like a freind of mine who thinks VW is the end all be all car manufacturer of all times. He thinks they are so easy to work on and blah blah and some are but I own a VW and its nice but its also a pain in the ***. Its no different than the old Win Vs. Mac tried old crap you see. Im a mac user so people think I hate Dell, Im like huh? I just think the OS Dells use is crap and it's not for me. SO WHAT
But unfortunately theres alway people who have to be like PUT a V8 in a RX7 WHAT!!! But its not your freaking car. So you dont like V8's ok fine but if some one wants to play around at trying it out then thats cool, that's what is fun about cars!
Hell if you want to be so different than everybody else in the world then do the following: drive on the left side of the road with a rotary engine in your car. Use a Mac at work. Work at night. Be a vegetarian. And speak in Latin when talking with people.
Then you can say look theres no body else like me. Oh really you mean your the only human in the world thats like you... huh wow
(Now LINUX on the other hand... would be like installing a turbine engine out of a helicopter, etc... )
Brad
12-28-01, 09:26 PM
#65
Rotary Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ft. Worth, Texas, USA, Earth, Solar System...
Posts: 1,273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by ChrisV
You have to, because you know you're being narrowminded and bigoted AND you started it. I'm only here to end it. Sure, people are going to be narrowminded and "bust" me on it. All you've done is say that it's perfectly acceptable to BE narrowminded an insulting, and that no matter how stupid your comments, I'm supposed to think you're freaking genious and go "wow, you know, he's right! Cars ARE shrines to god!!!" I'm not saying I'm a genius. I'm not saying you have to do what I did. I merely defend the facts, and the actions of someone with a dead rotary who wants to do this. That's more than I can say for your attitude.
[/B]
You have to, because you know you're being narrowminded and bigoted AND you started it. I'm only here to end it. Sure, people are going to be narrowminded and "bust" me on it. All you've done is say that it's perfectly acceptable to BE narrowminded an insulting, and that no matter how stupid your comments, I'm supposed to think you're freaking genious and go "wow, you know, he's right! Cars ARE shrines to god!!!" I'm not saying I'm a genius. I'm not saying you have to do what I did. I merely defend the facts, and the actions of someone with a dead rotary who wants to do this. That's more than I can say for your attitude.
[/B]
Brad
12-28-01, 09:29 PM
#66
Rotary Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ft. Worth, Texas, USA, Earth, Solar System...
Posts: 1,273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by ChrisV
How ignorant. You want to rag on "Americans" for thinking rotaries are unreliable (look right here on this website for testimony that enough of them die), and then you make teh absolutely STUPID assumption that you "can't think of any domestic V8s that wouldn't be completely bagged at 200,000kms." MOST "domestic" V8s can last that long. that's why the design hasn't changed much since '55. it simply works, even for people who don't take care of their engines. And since teh same engine designs are utilized in work trucks, many of which have easily doubled your 200k kms "barrier" and have been recorded as doing so, then your assumption is flawed.
Now, as to your last idiotic statement: What happens when a basic, no accessory 2nd gen RX7 dies? it's not wotrht SQUAT to anyone, and NO money can be gotten out of it. If it was so goddamn precious, that wouldn't be the case. In fact, after having mine raced for a year successfully, and having it repainted, I found it wasn't worth the cost of the suspension parts to sell when the rotary died. I certainly didn't have the money then (with a then $7/hr job) to pay $2500+ for a fresh 145hp STOCK 13b (and wasn't about to trust a used salvage yard engine). So I spent less than that and got a 400 hp, very FUN car again. If you want the cars to stay ******* rotary, YOU come up here and PAY me to KEEP it that way after it dies! If you're not willing to DO that, then shut the **** up about it!
For years I've been nice about this **** when dealing with small minded morons like you. I LIKE rotary cars. I've said this over and over. I'd love a 3rd gen. I'd really like to find another RX3 coupe. But I've had it up to here with brain dead dweebs who like to spend MY money for me, and treat a mass produced automobile as a goddamn religious shrine! KNOCK IT OFF! [/B]
How ignorant. You want to rag on "Americans" for thinking rotaries are unreliable (look right here on this website for testimony that enough of them die), and then you make teh absolutely STUPID assumption that you "can't think of any domestic V8s that wouldn't be completely bagged at 200,000kms." MOST "domestic" V8s can last that long. that's why the design hasn't changed much since '55. it simply works, even for people who don't take care of their engines. And since teh same engine designs are utilized in work trucks, many of which have easily doubled your 200k kms "barrier" and have been recorded as doing so, then your assumption is flawed.
Now, as to your last idiotic statement: What happens when a basic, no accessory 2nd gen RX7 dies? it's not wotrht SQUAT to anyone, and NO money can be gotten out of it. If it was so goddamn precious, that wouldn't be the case. In fact, after having mine raced for a year successfully, and having it repainted, I found it wasn't worth the cost of the suspension parts to sell when the rotary died. I certainly didn't have the money then (with a then $7/hr job) to pay $2500+ for a fresh 145hp STOCK 13b (and wasn't about to trust a used salvage yard engine). So I spent less than that and got a 400 hp, very FUN car again. If you want the cars to stay ******* rotary, YOU come up here and PAY me to KEEP it that way after it dies! If you're not willing to DO that, then shut the **** up about it!
For years I've been nice about this **** when dealing with small minded morons like you. I LIKE rotary cars. I've said this over and over. I'd love a 3rd gen. I'd really like to find another RX3 coupe. But I've had it up to here with brain dead dweebs who like to spend MY money for me, and treat a mass produced automobile as a goddamn religious shrine! KNOCK IT OFF! [/B]
That's not just in THIS thread. If I see even a mild flame from you on ANY thread on ANY section, you're not going to be posting for a week.
Brad
12-28-01, 10:24 PM
#68
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Originally posted by Pacey3182
What we were really after, more than what motor was swapped into what car, was to make something totaly different, something that no one else had. That was the fun.
What we were really after, more than what motor was swapped into what car, was to make something totaly different, something that no one else had. That was the fun.
But that IMO (again) keeps the same flavor as what Mazda originally intended for the RX.
But until someone can show me some numbers, I have a very hard time believing that a Chevy pushrod V6 or V8 and its accompanying tranny is more reliable, and have better handling, and (as some suggest in this thread) better balance, are a better choice than the rotary.
Sure it may have more HP, but no-one has even proved the reliability issue, well alone cost.
Remanu/rebuilt '90-13bt with mild porting and an estimated 250 HP + installed myself because everything bolts up and plugs in = $2500 )
Remanufactured Chevy 350 + Alum heads (for weight) [or Buick 3800] + turbo hydromatic tranny + kit + computer + installation/modification = ? HP? I know its possible for 400HP but what is real? I know the mid eighties Chevy 350 only put out 160 HP stock and could be moded to 200-250 reasonably easy with new heads, intake etc, but I don't remember off the top of my head what the GN motor puts out.
12-28-01, 10:54 PM
#69
Freedoms worth a buck o'5
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,544
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I sit both sides of the fence on this one...
Icemark.. you mention a chevy 440, you mean a dodge 440....Chevy was 427, 454..The mark iv bb family...
I have owned v-8 cars, I drive a 440 powered truck as well as n/a and Tii rx-7's... My 440 is built to make serious hp, I can't imagine that engine in an rx-7, the initial torque would rip the front end off the car, second to that, the more rauchier you make a v-8, the rougher they get idle and driveability wise, on the other hand, the Tii makes good power, and should make even nicer power after the t04e upgrade, but remains nice and docile and SMOOTH on boost.. Look at the guys running 11's and 12's with n/a v-8's, could you drive those cars to the drive in, maybe but its gonna be an exercise in what performance does to driveability, The rotary and other japanses turbo engines have the ability to remain rather docile yet wring out the numbers with boost, of course you could build a v-8 to do that to, but are you any better off then, a big motor with the added wieght of turbo chargers etc etc, probably not...
The rotary is the soul of the rx-7 and maintains its virtue, the feeling of the car with a big thumper v-8 under the hood to me, would just not be the same, when I go from one my rx's to my truck or even my work van, I can feel the differences in the motors, with the 440, you can percieve the reciprocating motion in the drivers seat...
I have seen alot of small cars with big motors at midnight drags and what not, some of them were fast, some of them werent, an MG with a blown 327 is fast, but mostly uncontrollable. I have seen vega's with killer 350's run 17's, its about car/engine balance and tractability, a coronet would be alot more manageable and thus faster with a 440 than a first gen would be..
The Shelby factor, well the cobra was never that great of car handling wise, I have several mags with road course race results in them, v-6 powered n/a cobras are faster in road courses than 427,428,429,460 powered cars..hmm, why is that, and in some races, they got spanked by miata's and datsun 510's...
Think of the RX as a package, the body is wrapping for the motor, like a camaro, if you want a 350, buy the correct wrapping..Max
Icemark.. you mention a chevy 440, you mean a dodge 440....Chevy was 427, 454..The mark iv bb family...
I have owned v-8 cars, I drive a 440 powered truck as well as n/a and Tii rx-7's... My 440 is built to make serious hp, I can't imagine that engine in an rx-7, the initial torque would rip the front end off the car, second to that, the more rauchier you make a v-8, the rougher they get idle and driveability wise, on the other hand, the Tii makes good power, and should make even nicer power after the t04e upgrade, but remains nice and docile and SMOOTH on boost.. Look at the guys running 11's and 12's with n/a v-8's, could you drive those cars to the drive in, maybe but its gonna be an exercise in what performance does to driveability, The rotary and other japanses turbo engines have the ability to remain rather docile yet wring out the numbers with boost, of course you could build a v-8 to do that to, but are you any better off then, a big motor with the added wieght of turbo chargers etc etc, probably not...
The rotary is the soul of the rx-7 and maintains its virtue, the feeling of the car with a big thumper v-8 under the hood to me, would just not be the same, when I go from one my rx's to my truck or even my work van, I can feel the differences in the motors, with the 440, you can percieve the reciprocating motion in the drivers seat...
I have seen alot of small cars with big motors at midnight drags and what not, some of them were fast, some of them werent, an MG with a blown 327 is fast, but mostly uncontrollable. I have seen vega's with killer 350's run 17's, its about car/engine balance and tractability, a coronet would be alot more manageable and thus faster with a 440 than a first gen would be..
The Shelby factor, well the cobra was never that great of car handling wise, I have several mags with road course race results in them, v-6 powered n/a cobras are faster in road courses than 427,428,429,460 powered cars..hmm, why is that, and in some races, they got spanked by miata's and datsun 510's...
Think of the RX as a package, the body is wrapping for the motor, like a camaro, if you want a 350, buy the correct wrapping..Max
12-28-01, 10:54 PM
#70
Full Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Saint Joseph, MO
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Ice,
And , you know, THATS why I bought my TII in the first place, because the rotary is different. This V8 swap/rotary thing could be argued 'till my brother-in-law pays back the money the borowed.
I've always thought turbos were cool, and there is no motor that screams to be turbocharged like the rotary! No monkey-motion, spins like there's no red line, awesome!
I say do what ever blows your hair back! If I did a V8 swap, I'd still keep my TII, 'cause they're unique!
And I don't think your car will be a " cut rate Z3". It'll be a "one of a kind".
Aint that what it's all about!
And , you know, THATS why I bought my TII in the first place, because the rotary is different. This V8 swap/rotary thing could be argued 'till my brother-in-law pays back the money the borowed.
I've always thought turbos were cool, and there is no motor that screams to be turbocharged like the rotary! No monkey-motion, spins like there's no red line, awesome!
I say do what ever blows your hair back! If I did a V8 swap, I'd still keep my TII, 'cause they're unique!
And I don't think your car will be a " cut rate Z3". It'll be a "one of a kind".
Aint that what it's all about!
