NathanRX7

Piston engines are bullshit, especially V8s. Put it in a big piece of **** truck or something. Sell your RX-7 to someone who won't rape it.

Pacey3182

Hey Icemark,


I don't have perceived mental inadequacies, they're real! I'm a gearhead, a mutant! Otherwise, I'd be drivin a minivan!




Wait a minute, what if you stuffed 454 cubes of rat into a Dodge Caravan........................................... .............?

BogusFile

I've got a 350 in my one of my RXs and I have to say i am satisfied with every aspect of the car. I have a TII with the turbo rotary too. I prefer the V8 RX simply cause the motor is stock, with intake and exhaust and it runs mid 13's. Some of you guys don't like it but I dont care.
After I get a cam, springs, and some roller rockers(350$ total) I will be running 12's. And the motor and trans will last forever as long as its properly maintained. Whats not to like about that.

Icemark

Since quite a few people here have attempted to flame, again as I said: IMO or In My Opinion. That in no way means my opinion is correct or incorrect, but simply my thoughts on changing a RX-7 to a MX-7. And isn’t that what he asked for when he posted this thread.

and gnx7 we have talked about this in other threads... I am glad you are happy with your car. Yes I live about 10 miles from Sears's, but I have no desire to drive or race your car. If I wanted something like that I would have got a Vette, or Camero, or even another 95 5.0 Mustang. Then I could have a pushrod motor, with all those extra parts. I have driven and worked on Original 17k lb Shelby Cobras with 450 HP, and again IN My Opinion, I don't like driving them and would not own one.

But since you got me going, another point:
People talk about how much more reliable the American V6 and V8 motors are... Funny maybe its just me, but the only cars that I have ever owned that needed constant work, fixing things like leaks, carb/fuel injection, high oil consumption (yes even higher than a Rotary), broken rods, etc, have all been Domestic V8s and V6s. Now I like to work on cars, but I hate to fix them because they were built on Friday or Monday. I will never own a US big three car as primary transportation again.

Funny, though that I also have a Lexus SC400 with 120k miles on it, but its motor have never ever needed anything other than plugs. I don't think I even have had to add a quart of oil to it between oil changes. Tells me something, that a 250HP import motor is more reliable and considerably smoother than a 260HP domestic.

But again, thats just my Opinion.

ChrisV

Wow. Some seriously narrowminded and plain ignorant responses.

How does a V8 powered 2nd gen RX7 retain the handling? Pretty simple. The V8 sits nearly completely behind the centerline of the front axle, thereby retaining (or even IMPROVING) F/R balance. The Ford 302 weighs about 50 lbs more than the turbo rotary (the Ford V8 is a LOT smaller than you think and uses up much less room in the engine compartment than a Turbo rotary), all of the weight added behind the axle... if you move the battery to the well behind the passenger seat, like I did, the weight up front is reduced even further. Since my car started out as an aluminum hood sport model with zero accessories, I only added 150 lbs to the entire car, bringing the total to 2720 lbs. And that includes the Autopower 6 pt cage. No, it wasn't gutted. It simply never had power windows, A/C, etc. The car was set on the Fordahl Motorsports corner weight scales to make sure the suspension settings were accurate (the car was a winning autocrosser before the conversion, I wanted to retain that ability). So I KNOW how much it weighed, and what the front/rear bias was. In fact, the bias was 49/51 f/r. The car ended up handling better after the conversion than it did before. I autocrossed this one before AND after the conversion. I've owned and raced everything from Pintos to Porsches, and was a member of a sports car club with over 20 national champions. I've been an SCCA and BSCC driving instructor. I KNOW what good handling is.

And with only 150 more total lbs than the ultra light Sport model, the stopping power was better than a stock RX7 Turbo, as it has the same brakes (yes, the 4 wheel vented ones with 4 piston aluminum calipers up front) with less overall weight AND better f/r bias. Think before you make stupid comments about things like that.

While the Chevy engine weighs more than the Ford, the engine can also be set back farther in the stock chassis due to the oil pump location. That counteracts the added weight.

The entire conversion to my Sport model cost less than just the turbo upgrade to the engine, and was the single cheapest way to get 400 reliable hp in an RX7. You want to spend more, go ahead. But don't spend MY money for me unless you also EARN my money for me. Get it? You want the challenge of making more power from the 1.3? Go right ahead, no one is stopping you. I've already BEEN there. Sometimes you just have to ask yourself: "how could this money be better spent? A challenge to myself to see if I can do something that others already do or do cheaper, or go the less expensive route and use the remainder to better my life?"

And to the people that say "if you wanted a V8 you could have gotten a Camaro or Mustang" I say, "if I would have wanted a live axle, 3500lb car I would have got one." Because I already OWNED the RX7 that died on me, I already HAD one of the finest chassis built (one that is neither rare, nor particularly valuable, however) and added gobs of power and torque to it for very little cost. It was vastly superior to any same cost Camaro or Mustang. Now, I was raised with seeing some of the worlds best hybrids go road racing. The Cobras, the Cunninghams, Lister/Chevrolets, amongst others. Porsche powered VWs, Chevy powered road race Jags, Sunbeam Tigers, TVR Griffiths (you think 2nd gen RX7s are unique? Not like any of THOSE cars...). Taking an excellent chassis, and dropping in a strong engine is a tried and true route to not just drag race performance, but road race and autocross, too (anybody remember a couple years back, when the top 2 A Mod autocross cars were a rotary powered Sprite, and a 302 Ford powered Midget?)

Did I remove the "soul" of the RX7? No, it did that on it's own at 100k miles. Bye, bye, apex seals! It was also the sixth rotary car I'd owned and the third I'd raced. Don't get me wrong... I love the rotary engine. I've owned and built many rotaries over the years, from R100s through RX2s and RX3s. I've put rotaries in other cars (like an MG Midget. THAT'S a serious ball o' fun!) I love the sound of a ported N/A 12A at idle. I love the speed of a FD TT 13B. But it's been a long time since you could rebuild a rotary for $300... and a 2nd gen needs more than 150-200hp to be rapid.

Most of you naysayers are merely making assumptions because you really have no clue.

ChrisV

Since it's your "opinion" and anecdotal, then it is as worthless to anyone outside your head as it is for me to tell you that I've owned over a hundred cars, and worked on hundreds more, and the Domestic cars have given me less problems, both as daily drives and as race cars. And out of that number, I've owned considerably more imports than domestics. But even with those numbers, it's anecdotal and means SQUAT to this argument.

That being said, I'd love to install the engine in your SC400 into an AE86 Corolla, a Lotus Super 7 clone, or even a street rod, as it's extremely compact (the Ford 302 is smaller than the BMW 4 liter and the Nissan 4.5 liter V8, and even the Ferrari 3.5 liter, but the Toyota 4 liter V8 is considerably smaller yet, being essentially the size of 2 1.6 liter 4AGEs on a common crank...).

1FastT2

iTrader: (1)

Thats pretty darring calling almost everyone on this forum narrow minded. I would have to say that %95 of people here have there own opinion saying that putting a V8 in an Rx-7 is stupid. Im personally not going to change my mind about this. First you state you opinions about it then you talk **** and then you kiss *** at the end of your little rant about the subject. When ever someone asks me if there a rotary in there I say yup, boy would I feel like a goof if I said no I put a V8 in. There are V8's in everything you see, evereything. Its nice to be different and feel different knowing that almost no one on the street has the same contraption that Rx-7's have under the hood.

Icemark

You know I really would like to see some scale readings on these conversions. The two GM motors installed in an RX7 that I have seen both added 250 lbs+ wet to the car (325 lbs wet on a 350/T2 conversion with the cage I saw).

Can someone that has done these changes actually post their scale sheets from a calibrated scale?

Pacey3182

Hey Dudes,

Don't think Icemark meant any disrespect to the people on this site, just stating a passionate opinion. I think the REAL soul of a customized, tweaked to perfection, pollished every square inch of it vehicle is in the guy driving it!

Pacey3182

Also, the guys that are "spinner" purists are doing the same. Internal combustion forever!

Pacey3182

Hey Chris V,


How did the stock Tll drivetrain hold up with all that V8 torque? Did you have to fabricate motor mounts, trans adapter plate. Cant imagine how fast that thing is.

ChrisV

If the shoe fits, wear it, bubba. You want to limit your brain, and think that being narrowminded is a virtue, go right ahead. You're the one being insulting to people who enjoy building cars, and then get off telling me *I'M* being insulting?

When did I talk "****" then kiss ***? i merely showed were people were factually wrong, then told why I did it, and why it still worked. I told Iceman that his "opinions" weren't a universal truth and why, and continued the conversation about his engine, as it is relevant to my interests: ALL cars.

But here you are, insisting on being a fucktard, and acting like being a narrowminded bigot is a good thing. It's a CAR, not a religion. Having fun and driving what you like, while not telling others what to drive are the keys. You like your car, great. I like rotaries, too. Have for decades. But you probably missed that part, as reading comprehension seems to be an issue with you. Maybe english isn't your first language...

ChrisV

That makes sense as the Chevy V8 is a hundred lbs heavier than the Ford (520 vs 420 lbs). As it turns out, though, the Ford AOD I used is a bit lighter than the Mazda 5 sp and flywheel. Since I also don't need the large front oil cooler, and the Griffin Aluminum radiator is lighter than the stocker, I removed weight in those areas. Of course, my car was built in '93 and sold in '98, so I can't run out and print off new scale slips. remeber, I didn't start with a GXL or Turbo, but basically a stripper with the good suspension bits and the lighter bodywork.

But you might want to ask over at www.v8rx7.com, as at least one guy has a completed Ford conversion on hand, though I don't know what he started with. When I got mine, I was looking for a lightweight autocrosser to compete with the 944s, and fully intended on leaving it rotary powered.

Again, realize how far back the engines sit in the chassis, and where that weight goes because of that. And when talking overall weight (as far as what the suspension and brakes are asked to handle), also factor in driver and passenger weights. If you weigh 250 lbs, you would add nearly a hundred lbs to the weight that I wouldn't... Some people get **** about their car's weight, and forget about their own...

ChrisV

The only Mazda drivetrain bits left in the car were the driveshaft and rear end, and it had zero problems (had 100k+ miles on it when I got it, then I drove it for 5 years without problems. I guess the guy who owns it now has added nitrous). Very strong parts. The engine/trans was a matched set, though the engine came from one source, and the trans came from an ex-patrol car. The motor mounts and trans mounts wre made by myself. I know they work good, and people who have used the plans I made have reported good results. It was actually extremely simple, as a lot of the Ford bits matched the Mazda bits...

As far as how fast, top speed was unchanged (gearing limited), but accelleration was improved quite a bit from it's stock 16 second 1/4 mile mark... Depending on conditions, it would run low 12s in autocross setup, and top gear roll-on was exceptional feeling.

mprime

Man this is all going down hill. Im sorry but Im in ChrisV's corner on this if you love cars and have been around racing you know that theres all kinds of freaked out ways to do things. And thats cool cause it works for those guys and it's FUN thats the whole point.

But theres always someone who cant let some things go, like a freind of mine who thinks VW is the end all be all car manufacturer of all times. He thinks they are so easy to work on and blah blah and some are but I own a VW and its nice but its also a pain in the ***. Its no different than the old Win Vs. Mac tried old crap you see. Im a mac user so people think I hate Dell, Im like huh? I just think the OS Dells use is crap and it's not for me. SO WHAT

But unfortunately theres alway people who have to be like PUT a V8 in a RX7 WHAT!!! But its not your freaking car. So you dont like V8's ok fine but if some one wants to play around at trying it out then thats cool, that's what is fun about cars!

Hell if you want to be so different than everybody else in the world then do the following: drive on the left side of the road with a rotary engine in your car. Use a Mac at work. Work at night. Be a vegetarian. And speak in Latin when talking with people.

Then you can say look theres no body else like me. Oh really you mean your the only human in the world thats like you... huh wow

1FastT2

iTrader: (1)

Im the one being insulting? Your the one calling me bubba, fucktard and a narrowminded bigot. And then your telling me I cant read. All im trying to say is alot of people have a prolbem with V8 engines in an Rx-7 and I am one of them. Your right, you can do what ever you want to your car, whos stoping you, not me, no one is. But thats not saying that you aren't going to get busted about it. THATS ALL IM SAYING. And all im saying is most people in here don't want to see a Rx-7 with a v8 in it. What is so difficult about that to understand? Im going to be the big man in this arguement and call it quits.

Pacey3182

Hey Guys,

We're all hot rodders at heart. We take a chunk of mass-produced metal and make it an extension of ourselves. We take a car and make a car desighners wet dream without the corporated restraints. I'm an old fart. In the early 60's we would "stuff a V8 in the sum bitch"!

You young guys are wizards. It's black magic to me how you get so much HP out of small displacement motors.

We are all after the same goal, just takin different paths.


Hey ChrisV,


The more I research, the more I think my next project sill be a 2nd gen convertible with a Ford small block. Could be a modern day AC Cobra!

AE Turbo

It would be asinine for me to believe that somenone would think a car has a soul in the human sense of a source of emotion. But when someone says "no rotary=no soul", they are using a rhetorial figure of speech that is the equivelant of saying, "Removing the rotary engine is equal to removing the intergal part of what makes an RX-7" and that is not the case.

ChrisV

And you started out saying V8 rx7 are which was insulting even before I got here today. Then saying "but the engine is what makes the car, if you take that away all you have is some stupid domistic junk." which is narrowminded, ignorant, and insulting. Again, before I got here. Added to the rest of the comments, I can safely say that you and some others WERE being narrowminded and ignorant (means you don't know the subject, and considering the responses about weight and handling, that was an accurate assesment, too).

Then you insult me DIRECTLY with this: "then you talk **** and then you kiss *** at the end of your little rant" after saying this "Thats pretty darring calling almost everyone on this forum narrow minded" Which is exactly what they and you are being. Remember this "I would have to say that %95 of people here have there own opinion saying that putting a V8 in an Rx-7 is stupid" Now you are directly calling me stupid, right after saying that 95% are narrowminded (Hell, not even *I* think that there are that many narrowminded bigots here. Most people here are actually pretty cool). So I responded in kind, and you have the unmitigated gall to say *I* started it? You're really reaching.

You have to, because you know you're being narrowminded and bigoted AND you started it. I'm only here to end it. Sure, people are going to be narrowminded and "bust" me on it. All you've done is say that it's perfectly acceptable to BE narrowminded an insulting, and that no matter how stupid your comments, I'm supposed to think you're freaking genious and go "wow, you know, he's right! Cars ARE shrines to god!!!" I'm not saying I'm a genius. I'm not saying you have to do what I did. I merely defend the facts, and the actions of someone with a dead rotary who wants to do this. That's more than I can say for your attitude.

Pacey3182

Excuse my spelling, arthritis, you know.:p

1FastT2

iTrader: (1)

You really dont get it do you! I may have started it by saying that V8 Rx7's are gay but that my own fucken opinion. So I guess your trying to change my opinion? This really isn't even about the main topic anymore, all it about is your thick head trying to win some arguement about your over grown ego. DUDE DROP IT! I'll go have fun with my rotary powered Rx-7 and you go have fun with your V8 powered Rx-7 but dont be mad if sometime we meet up and I skool your ***.

relvinnian

ChrisV, you're RX-7 is beautiful... I love that color of blue. I am going to have to agree with with Chris here, I feel kind of embarrased when people are this narrow minded. I'm doing a V8 swap myself, I've been planning it for awhile. I had no help in deciding whether to do this swap or not, other than reading the facts. I prefere the rotory engine itself to a V8, but at this point in my life, I can't afford the car I want. With a V8 I can. I'm selling my TII and buying an 86-88 base. I'm still deciding between a 350 and a 302, but the fact that the 302 weighs so much less, and has a great stock cam, is pretty much leaning me that way. I will say this though... my car WILL be balanced. The first thing I do when I drop the engine/trans... is upgrade the suspension... alot. If I didn't want beautiful handling, I would've chose a cheaper better suited car with a live rear.

Think about it... it actually makes sense

JarrardB

If everyone stopped acting like little bitches and stopped arguing about who said what then maybe......just maybe for once.....we could have a mature discussion about this..

I wouldn't do the V8 swap - I love owning a rotary engine

To some people it is inconcievable that there is an alternative to rotary technology..... It's like me trying to argue that I can cook a better roast dinner in my microwave to my grandma can in her oven....... there is no way she could comprehend that..... it may be narrow minded but it is inbred and its something you just accept....... there are alternatives.... people like to experiment and good on them for that.....but for me...I like new technology and as far as I am concerned...... I will be a rotary supporter for the rest of my life..... it's different.... the technology is better (IMO)..... and while it may not be as efficient as a Honda or as toruey as a V8.... it is special and its mine..

I LOVE MY ROTOR!

Pacey3182

Hey JarrardB,

Where did you get that picture of my wife??