I can bet this has been asked a dozen times already, but I didn't find anything in a quick search and old threads aren't as interesting to read since some new methods etc have been found since then.

Anyway. I bought a '91 N/A with 95,000kms for $5,500 and after only having it for 2 months now I feel like it isn't fast enough for what it is. I'm considering saving to do a turbo swap, but then I started thinking that selling my car and buying a turbo II would be easier and cheaper. If you add in the cost of an engine, turbo tranny, driveshaft and diff and other smaller items, then factor in a rebuild + street or bridge port, I'd be looking at around 4-5k. So now I have an 9-10,000 dollar car.

So I'm thinking it would be a lot easier to sell my rx7 stock and buy a Turbo II that has small issues or a blown engine and then rebuild and port that engine. I save the cost of the engine/drivetrain and the headache of wiring, swapping engines, tuning etc. And I can probably sell mine for 4-5k and have 2-3k left over from buying a high mileage Turbo II.

I'm probably making absolutely no sense, but any info/experience would be awesome.

 

My T2 engine was 1700 shipped from Japan2LA here on RX7 club. It was gauranteed 100+ psi on all faces. I did not do a drivetrain swap yet and have been running it pretty much stock for over a year with no problems

 

cheaper to buy a t2. less headaches and overall just works better.

 

+1

after you figure the engine, transmission, clutch, hydraulics, wiring nightmares, driveshaft, differential and half shafts it comes out to be less cost and much less headache. that is if you start with heavy duty suspension vehicles with 5 lug wheels and 4 pot brakes. if not then you also have the brakes and suspension to upgrade as well as wheels and that still doesn't cover the exhaust or instrument cluster(if you want to do a full swap).

most swaps are half assed with n/a drivetrain after the engine and i would have a hard time even looking at a car seriously when seeing that.

 

For me my NA blew and it was, get another NA motor, or get a turbo motor and swap the drivetrain later. I went turbo. But given the choice, I agree, it's simpler and more cost efferctive to just buy a T2.

 

I don't think an N/A rear end will hold up to well to 300-350RWHP. Could always do a Miata LSD swap or something similar, though. I think for the 500-600 bucks I'd get the Turbo's driveashaft and rear end. Are you using the N/A tranny as well?

I never thought of the brakes or suspension. I included 1k for exhaust in my estimated cost. I'd definitely swap in the cluster too. My OCD would go insane.

If turbo swaps are so expensive to do properly, then why does everyone do them? I guess that would scare me as well buying swapped cars. Especially those who did it themselves. Unless they have receipts from a shop doing everything, then I understand. But I'm the kind of person who dislikes buying modified cars. I prefer stock.

This is another option. I doubt my N/A will blow anytime soon considering it sounds great and everything works perfectly other than the AUX ports are stuck, but anything can happen with these cars, aha. But couldn't you just rebuilt your blown N/A rather than buy a another N/A?

I sorta want to Bridgeport my N/A, but I feel spending 1200-1300 on a rebuild + 600-700 on the bridge port (2000 in total) for only 180-200RWHP isn't worth it. But it would sound incredible and keep up with cars I'm considering in the future (s2000).

 

even in the event your n/a blows it may be a little time consuming but still inevitably easier to sell the n/a shell and buy a TII with or without the engine.

no wiring nightmares, no sourcing difficult to find TII drivetrain parts, no hidden fees.

i don't remember the last time i saw a proper swap that could not be easily identified. then again if i did i probably would be offering that person a job.

 

Aha! I enjoy when you post in my threads. You're probably the most helpful person on this forum. Considering all that, you'll most likely be who I deal with when the time comes for porting/rebuilding my engine.

 

alright here's a break down on what I've spent so far and trying to find the cheapest parts possible....

900 on a blown short block motor, trans, diff, and alot of little odds and ends
200 on turbo manifold ecu intercooler and odds and ends
280 on axles driveshaft starter clutch slave and some more odds and ends
50 in gettin injectors cleaned tested

I still have a good chunk of parts to buy and probably 1500+ in the motor getting rebuilt... turbo parts in my area are Very rare no junkyards and no one willing to sell... if I could do this all over again I would buy a turbo II and be done.... but I love convertibles.... so whatever I'm havin fun, I guess this is why I work..... good luck with whatever route you take man....

 

Yea, if i had a 'vert I'd just do a turbo swap. I could save money by not rebuilding or porting the engine once buying it, but I feel like thats the safer bet. I may just save my money for when I buy a new car (c5 vette or s2k) instead of putting money into my n/a which won't be any faster than either of them. I'm not a rotorhead, this rx7 was the best buy for my 4k price range and i feel like it isn't my kind of car, even though i love it after 2 months.

 

vert would be an exception, i can understand some people want a turbovert. coupes all had the turbo option granted the options were limited like they all had sunroofs.

don't forget the fuel pump also. i always find something that wasn't replaced that is a key part to proper operation. then there is the 2 step fuel pump relay and rewiring the chassis for it, rewiring the dash for the stock boost gauge, i know i'm forgetting a bit because it's been a while since i did a true swap because it's so time consuming.

 

The heck with the fuel pump resistor relay setup. That's the first thing to go in fuel pump rewire jobs. And the stock boost gauge replaces the volt meter and tops out just above stock boost. I prefer the more useful NA cluster. I guess if the plan is to try to fool the next owner into thinking it's a TII, you could go the extra mile to swap in the less-than-useful TII parts.

 

you're from california... it's necessary if you want to do the swap properly for emissions purposes. :p

the cluster is a little bit of overkill, but i am a bit of a perfectionist.

 

IMO, forget the drivetrain, it's all about the body/chassis.
Paint/bodywork is way more expensive than mechanical work (of any sort).
I'd assume that for $5500 you bought a very nice NA, can you find a comparable T2 for anywhere near that? Would you be be happy with a rattier car, even if it's a turbo and slightly faster?

The factory turbo is only rated at 40 hp more than NA, you think that'll make the car feel "fast enough for what it is"? If not, welcome to the world of turbo upgrades which can get expensive real fast. Bigger turbo, bigger injectors, intercooler, fuel pump, standalone/tuning...the list goes on.

Assuming the worst, you sell the NA for a $1500 hit, you no longer have the theoretical $2-3 k cushion to fix up the T2, which you already figure will either have "small issues or a blown engine" (which is quite a range of problems to deal with).

What is this car to you...a daily, a toy, a track wannabe?
$5500 seems awfully expensive for a NA (can we see some pics?), what's it got to justify that kind of price?

And don't forget- I'll phrase this as delicately as possible- if you want more power, going turbo is hardly your only (or best, IMO) option.

 

Buy a standalone and do a custom turbo to the 6-port, when it blows replace it with a turbo short block.
Gather the TII drivetrain parts while your 6-port turbo is running good.

Like clocker said, if your car is nice, keep it. You'll get a more ragged out TII if you try to sell and buy.

 

If you want a stock set up buy a stok tii.
If you are going to build everything the way you want it and going fmic, standalone, etc start with the cheaper car, but start with a 5 lug car.

 

I paid $4,000 for my car, the paid $400 on top of that for fees and taxes (Ontario sucks), then spent $1,000 on tint and audio in the span of a few days. That's why I say I paid $5500. You should see how expensive these cars are here. Some idiots have s5 verts stock trying to sell above $10k with 30k plus miles. For $5k you'll get a turbo that has a **** ton of mileage and is selling as-is. I buy my cars certified. If the buyer doesn't want to spend 60 bucks on a certification, the car clearly has issues. Oh, and my car also came with a set of racing beat springs which i sold on here to pay for tint, then it also came with some cheap, but nice sounding Midas/custom exhaust. The interior looks brand new as well.

While in school I have everything paid for other than gas. So every penny I make goes towards my car or anything else I need/want. i wanted to complete the car before my next year in college. That gives me a year to buy parts. A t2 only having 40 more horses stock can change drastically with only an exhaust, injectors and a standalone, then tuning. Basically the way im thinking is that putting 8 grand into my n/a is almost useless. It'll be like a civic with a fart can, slow and loud, but a lot more expensive. Hell, stock em1 civics with 160hp are faster considering their weight.

My car is a daily driver, sees redline daily and i have fun driving. I take the long ways home a lot just for an extra 5 minutes of fun. I live in the city. My car sees 5th gear maybe once a week at best. Ive put on 3,000 kms since July.

I've heard of turboing 6port n/a's and have read a ton of threads and aaroncakes write ups. He also said something along the lines of swapping a turbo engine is a lot easier and less expensive then trying to turbo an n/a.

My plans for my n/a as it sits are wheels and tires, g35 mudguards or bumper caps from shine, wangan spoiler, coilovers and completely replace all fluids and filters in the car before it hits 100,000. After that, i want to make the car accelerate faster. This is when i need to figure out what im going to do, or if it's even worth doing.

 

Thats the route im taken makes more sense to me. Use what you have for now and all the mods you do for the turbo 6 port will support a heathly 4 port down the road.

 

My other advice would be to not bother with modifications to the na motor unless it involves bolting a turbo on it.

But yes- always keep the cleaner car. Interior is important to a quality car and bodywork and paint can get expensive

 

Wouldn't I still need basically everything from a T2 other than the block? It seems useless to me to do custom work and make my car more unreliable.


That's how I feel. I wouldn't mind spending $2k on a rebuild + aggressive streetport or bridgeport. But then I've heard you need a standalone for a bridgeport, so the extra money isn't worth 40-60whp. Another issue is after spending 4-5,000 dollars on an N/A, I will still only get 4-5, MAYBE $6,000 for it a year or two from now. At least putting 4-5k into a Turbo II would give me results.

 

None of us are talking about an N/A build. We're all saying get a standalone and make your own custom Turbo Kit without very many TII parts.

 

Usually when I hear "custom" I think "expensive".

 

If you love your rx7, then keep it or else you'll always be thinking "why did I sell her"?!

But honestly, a decent running t2 can be had for 5,500$. The same price you paid for your n/a.

 

Why do you feel a bridgeport is necessary in any case? That opens up a large can of worms that in NA land, starts with "standalone" and "custom intake manifold".

I don't recommend turbocharging the S5 NA. The compression is too high. Few of the setups I've seen or heard of have been reliable. Too many compromises need to be made to keep detonation under control.

To be honest, there really isn't going to be that much cost difference between bolting a big turbo onto a 6 port block, vs bolting one onto a 4 port block. Since you are building the engine anyway, why not just start with a quality j-spec TII engine and then sell off the NA stuff to recover the costs?

 

Going with a bridgeport would give me enough power for me to be happy and the sound alone is worth it. I'd like to atleast keep up with s2000's in the acceleration department. Considering my rx7 weighs 100-200lbs less than an s2k I don't see myself needing to spend that much to make it as quick. The reason why I keep using an s2k as a reference is because I nearly bought two of them and would still like one after the rx7/college. If I can get my rx7 up to par with an s2k in the handling and acceleration departments for less then it would cost for me to buy one at 11,000-12,000, then I'll be happy. Turboing would just give me the perfect car.

Swapping my NA for a j-spec TII was the plan. I could always do the engine swap to get my car running since it is my daily, meaning I'll use the N/A tranny and rear end and then upgrade to a TII rear end and tranny when I get the money. I don't know why I'm so set on porting it, but if I bought a j-spec from a reputable seller with good compression, I could always keep it stock and save myself the thousands of dollars it would cost for a street or bridgeport and rebuild. I shouldn't have problems making 300WHP on a stock block with stock TMIC, right?