CAS and timing
#1
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: VA Beach
Posts: 797
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAS and timing
I think i've gotten almost all my issues with my 87 t2 worked out and I want to double check the timing to make sure it's spot on for the factory settings. The p/o installed a new CAS himself and I have a feeling he didn't do it right.
Just to make sure I do it right all I need to do to restab the CAS is remove the blind cap and pull out the gear assembly line up the marks on bottom gear and shaft line it up with 5 degrees btdc mark on motor then when reinstalling the cas making sure the two points on the top gear are just starting to go into the black boxes. Just like in the picture (note: not my car in the picture). You don't have to remove that whole housing in order to reset the timing right?
Once you get that all done do you really have to hookup a timing light and mess with it any more or does restabbing it get it close to factory settings?
Just to make sure I do it right all I need to do to restab the CAS is remove the blind cap and pull out the gear assembly line up the marks on bottom gear and shaft line it up with 5 degrees btdc mark on motor then when reinstalling the cas making sure the two points on the top gear are just starting to go into the black boxes. Just like in the picture (note: not my car in the picture). You don't have to remove that whole housing in order to reset the timing right?
Once you get that all done do you really have to hookup a timing light and mess with it any more or does restabbing it get it close to factory settings?
#2
Engine, Not Motor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 29,789
Likes: 0
Received 108 Likes
on
91 Posts
You're not pulling out any gear assembly...
Rotate the engine until the first timing mark lines up.
Pull the cover from the CAS.
Remove the CAS.
Turn it so the notch on the bottom of the CAS shaft lines up with the dimple in the gear.
Hold the trigger wheel with your thumb so it doesn't skip around.
Install CAS. You may have to turn the body slightly to get it in place.
The end result should show the trigger wheels in the above position.
Rotate the engine until the first timing mark lines up.
Pull the cover from the CAS.
Remove the CAS.
Turn it so the notch on the bottom of the CAS shaft lines up with the dimple in the gear.
Hold the trigger wheel with your thumb so it doesn't skip around.
Install CAS. You may have to turn the body slightly to get it in place.
The end result should show the trigger wheels in the above position.
#5
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: VA Beach
Posts: 797
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't have a timing light yet. And it doesn't start almost every time I've tried. I got it fired up once and let it idle while we were refilling the coolant but after it started warming up it started idling crappy and then died. It hasn't started up since then. I let it cool back off but still nothing.
#7
HAILERS
Join Date: May 2001
Location: FORT WORTH, TEXAS,USA
Posts: 20,563
Likes: 0
Received 21 Likes
on
19 Posts
Sorry. The ECU advances the timing during START (cranking). See page 4-49 of the Fuel and Emissions of the Training Manual that is floating around out there on the world wide web (China excluded).
The thread owner NEEDS a timing light. Just a common 20 buck timing light. Not a fancy one. Just a plain Jane timing light. See the timing procedure in the local FSM.
Big Metal Piece with Blind Cap Screws ................puzzles me and others.
A CAS that has been installed per the FSM (dimples on the CAS aligned/pulley mark aligned) should end up looking like the attached jpg I stole off the web. The two *pointers* on top of the CAS should be cutting across the corners of the two black coils inside the CAS. THEN a timing light is used to finish the timing. BUT if installed as shown in the jpg, the timing will be within five or so degrees of the finished product, so the engine should be starting without any problem.
Last edited by HAILERS; 03-26-08 at 04:57 AM.
Trending Topics
#8
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: VA Beach
Posts: 797
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i guess i'll be picking up a timing light this weekend.
the thing I am talking about I highlighted in this picture
I just want to make sure that I don't have to disassemble half the motor to reset the timing
the thing I am talking about I highlighted in this picture
I just want to make sure that I don't have to disassemble half the motor to reset the timing
#9
Lives on the Forum
If you're CLOSE, the motor should crank and start.
I'd say if you're within 20-degrees + or - is close enough.
It might not run nicely, but it should crank and start...
This is a good sign that you're close with the timing.
You don't need a timing gun to get the engine running.
If you're good, you can actually adjust the CAS by ear by listening how the engine sounds while idling.
Of course, a timing gun should be used to adjust to factory spec.
-Ted
I'd say if you're within 20-degrees + or - is close enough.
It might not run nicely, but it should crank and start...
This is a good sign that you're close with the timing.
You don't need a timing gun to get the engine running.
If you're good, you can actually adjust the CAS by ear by listening how the engine sounds while idling.
Of course, a timing gun should be used to adjust to factory spec.
-Ted
#10
W. TX chirpin Monkey
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Mesquite, TX
Posts: 2,684
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the CAS is just held in by one little nut. It's the one that holds it in place from sliding back and forth. remove that, and unplug the CAS and then it just pulls out. When stabbing back in the gears move a little. play with it a little and you should get it to look like the picture within a few tries. It's really no that big a deal. Also owning a timing light is a must. Fancy ones don't work....i.e. Snap on et...just a cheapo timing light....harbor freight. Good luck, and don't panic.
#12
HAILERS
Join Date: May 2001
Location: FORT WORTH, TEXAS,USA
Posts: 20,563
Likes: 0
Received 21 Likes
on
19 Posts
Here is the CAS pulled out. Just undo the one 10mm wrench size bolt/nut and pull straight out. Pictures and install in the free, online FSM.
Timing has to be set with the engine fully HOT and the RPMS under 1100rpm. Preferably nearer to 750 rpm but as long as it's under 1000-1100 rpm it won't make any difference.
The ECU automatically advances the timing when the rpms are over something like 1200 or so rpm. Since the tachs are not that accurate make sure the rpms are under 1000 rpm. The real advance figure is in the online, free, Training manual.
When cranking/starting, the ECU advances the timing for Trail and Lead to both five degrees BTC. After it starts the timing goes to -5 and -20 (L/T) if the engine is hot.
You start a cold engine and the ECU makes the afr Rich til somewhere around 125* and 155* where the afr gets Leaner. Tone and speed of the engine will change when those figures are reached....most likely.
Timing has to be set with the engine fully HOT and the RPMS under 1100rpm. Preferably nearer to 750 rpm but as long as it's under 1000-1100 rpm it won't make any difference.
The ECU automatically advances the timing when the rpms are over something like 1200 or so rpm. Since the tachs are not that accurate make sure the rpms are under 1000 rpm. The real advance figure is in the online, free, Training manual.
When cranking/starting, the ECU advances the timing for Trail and Lead to both five degrees BTC. After it starts the timing goes to -5 and -20 (L/T) if the engine is hot.
You start a cold engine and the ECU makes the afr Rich til somewhere around 125* and 155* where the afr gets Leaner. Tone and speed of the engine will change when those figures are reached....most likely.
Last edited by HAILERS; 03-26-08 at 05:26 PM.
#13
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: VA Beach
Posts: 797
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pulled the blind cap off the cas after lining up the marks on the pulley. It was off HUGE like 90 degree huge. Reset it and then pulled all the plugs cleaned them off, put in fresh gas and then she started right up. It's got an oil leak where the oil line goes into the turbo. I suspect when the p/o replaced the turbo he didn't tighten the back bolt on that flange.
What's the best way to get at that flange without too much disassembly?
What's the best way to get at that flange without too much disassembly?
#14
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: VA Beach
Posts: 797
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm just gonna pull the ACV off to fix the oil leak. If the gasket leaks when I reinstall it I will deal with it and wait for my blockoff plates to arrive next week.
#15
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Payson, AZ
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry. The ECU advances the timing during START (cranking). See page 4-49 of the Fuel and Emissions of the Training Manual that is floating around out there on the world wide web (China excluded).
The thread owner NEEDS a timing light. Just a common 20 buck timing light. Not a fancy one. Just a plain Jane timing light. See the timing procedure in the local FSM.
Big Metal Piece with Blind Cap Screws ................puzzles me and others.
A CAS that has been installed per the FSM (dimples on the CAS aligned/pulley mark aligned) should end up looking like the attached jpg I stole off the web. The two *pointers* on top of the CAS should be cutting across the corners of the two black coils inside the CAS. THEN a timing light is used to finish the timing. BUT if installed as shown in the jpg, the timing will be within five or so degrees of the finished product, so the engine should be starting without any problem.
The thread owner NEEDS a timing light. Just a common 20 buck timing light. Not a fancy one. Just a plain Jane timing light. See the timing procedure in the local FSM.
Big Metal Piece with Blind Cap Screws ................puzzles me and others.
A CAS that has been installed per the FSM (dimples on the CAS aligned/pulley mark aligned) should end up looking like the attached jpg I stole off the web. The two *pointers* on top of the CAS should be cutting across the corners of the two black coils inside the CAS. THEN a timing light is used to finish the timing. BUT if installed as shown in the jpg, the timing will be within five or so degrees of the finished product, so the engine should be starting without any problem.
Also is there something i have to Jumper durring this process ?
#17
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Payson, AZ
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's the best info I have had! I have been dying to figure out how many rpms my idle was running ! What about that green connecter ? Aren't I to jumper that when doing the timing ?
#20
Wow... simply wow.
My post is pointless but i dont care cuz it will make me feel better.
Setting a CAS is the EASIEST thing you guys. Why does it take so many people to explain the easiest procedure.
1. Line up pully mark
2. Pull CAS out with top cover off.
3. Line up dimples
4. Put back in and adjust to where the first picture shows.
5. Start car
6. ???????????
7. Profit
I have NEVER EVER EVER used a timing light on a NA Rx7. Its really not a big deal.
/thread
My post is pointless but i dont care cuz it will make me feel better.
Setting a CAS is the EASIEST thing you guys. Why does it take so many people to explain the easiest procedure.
1. Line up pully mark
2. Pull CAS out with top cover off.
3. Line up dimples
4. Put back in and adjust to where the first picture shows.
5. Start car
6. ???????????
7. Profit
I have NEVER EVER EVER used a timing light on a NA Rx7. Its really not a big deal.
/thread
#21
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,815
Received 2,584 Likes
on
1,835 Posts
Wow... simply wow.
My post is pointless but i dont care cuz it will make me feel better.
Setting a CAS is the EASIEST thing you guys. Why does it take so many people to explain the easiest procedure.
1. Line up pully mark
2. Pull CAS out with top cover off.
3. Line up dimples
4. Put back in and adjust to where the first picture shows.
5. Start car
6. ???????????
7. Profit
I have NEVER EVER EVER used a timing light on a NA Rx7. Its really not a big deal.
/thread
My post is pointless but i dont care cuz it will make me feel better.
Setting a CAS is the EASIEST thing you guys. Why does it take so many people to explain the easiest procedure.
1. Line up pully mark
2. Pull CAS out with top cover off.
3. Line up dimples
4. Put back in and adjust to where the first picture shows.
5. Start car
6. ???????????
7. Profit
I have NEVER EVER EVER used a timing light on a NA Rx7. Its really not a big deal.
/thread
#22
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Payson, AZ
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow... simply wow.
My post is pointless but i dont care cuz it will make me feel better.
Setting a CAS is the EASIEST thing you guys. Why does it take so many people to explain the easiest procedure.
1. Line up pully mark
2. Pull CAS out with top cover off.
3. Line up dimples
4. Put back in and adjust to where the first picture shows.
5. Start car
6. ???????????
7. Profit
I have NEVER EVER EVER used a timing light on a NA Rx7. Its really not a big deal.
/thread
My post is pointless but i dont care cuz it will make me feel better.
Setting a CAS is the EASIEST thing you guys. Why does it take so many people to explain the easiest procedure.
1. Line up pully mark
2. Pull CAS out with top cover off.
3. Line up dimples
4. Put back in and adjust to where the first picture shows.
5. Start car
6. ???????????
7. Profit
I have NEVER EVER EVER used a timing light on a NA Rx7. Its really not a big deal.
/thread
#23
so i followed the procedure to the t above, i have an aftermarket pulley because i have 4 white marks, anyways i put the needle right between 10btdc and 0 , lined up the nipple on the crank angle sensor reinstalled it checked the position after reinstall, turned the car over and BAM. it sounds fine above 2000 rpm but as soon as it drops below its glug glug glug glug Die... what did i do???
The pointer is above the gear.
If you did this all correctly then you probably have some other problem.
Vacuum leak, TPS, Sensor somewhere,
Also with having an aftermarket pulley i would make sure you are at the factory setting unless you have reason to be otherwise.
#24
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
so i followed the procedure to the t above, i have an aftermarket pulley because i have 4 white marks, anyways i put the needle right between 10btdc and 0 , lined up the nipple on the crank angle sensor reinstalled it checked the position after reinstall, turned the car over and BAM. it sounds fine above 2000 rpm but as soon as it drops below its glug glug glug glug Die... what did i do???
#25
Retired Moderator, RIP
iTrader: (142)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Smiths Falls.(near Ottawa!.Mapquest IT!)
Posts: 25,581
Likes: 0
Received 131 Likes
on
114 Posts
and since that pulley is aftermarket who knows where the marks are.
If you feel you are in the right Vicinity timing wise,and the car is running fair,then for the Hell of it,Pull the CAS again and move it one Tooth..one way or the other,and see if that fixes your issue.
I know the front pulley has marks on it.But really at this point you have already used them and thought it was close to a stock setting.Well you are close...What I am suggesting is line up that pulley,same as you did before and stab the cas one tooth one way..test.
then Try the other way.
Try Timing the car without pulley marks!.That is a real Pain in the ***,But I did it!