carbon lock
08-17-05, 02:15 PM
#1
mattg prob nt coming back
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carbon lock
hey how do you know when your motor is carbon locked? i just put in a new starter and when i crank it the motor wont turn over at all. is there any way to unlock it if it is locked with out rebuilding the motor? ok thanks, Gabe
08-17-05, 02:27 PM
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I bought a used engine to put into my car and while it was on an engine stand being prepped, it got carbon locked. I managed to free it by turning it with a breaker bar and socket on the front e-shaft bolt, but it was a real nail-biter for me. How much force before something other than carbon breaks? Thankfully, it didn't really take all that much pressure, but it might be more than a starter would apply. After I freed it up a turned it over a few times, carbon started caking out the exhaust ports. I vacuumed it all up and sprayed fogging oil into the cambers. No problem at all after that.
Anyway...off on a bit of a tangent there
First thing to do is to try to turn in backwards a bit (counter-clockwise when looking at from the front) just by pulling on the belts. If that doesn't work, you're gonna have to try what I did, which is going to mean removing the fan and shroud. But first, is there any way something isn't installed quite right? Can you hear the solenoid on the starter kick out the drive gear? Does the clutch pedal feel right? Can you move through the gears?
Anyway...off on a bit of a tangent there
First thing to do is to try to turn in backwards a bit (counter-clockwise when looking at from the front) just by pulling on the belts. If that doesn't work, you're gonna have to try what I did, which is going to mean removing the fan and shroud. But first, is there any way something isn't installed quite right? Can you hear the solenoid on the starter kick out the drive gear? Does the clutch pedal feel right? Can you move through the gears?
08-17-05, 02:33 PM
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i installed the starter right because i hear it engage and the clutch and pedal feel fine and i can move through all the gears. i also forgot to mention that when i turn the key, the tach bumps up to 2 grand but i cant hear the motor turn 
08-17-05, 02:38 PM
#4
Yea try turning the motor over by the power steering belt and if it doesn't turn then probably take the plugs out and let some MMO sit in overnight. If it does turn then the starter will be the problem. Weather the ground that goes on the back of the starter to positive wires being loose to the stater soloniod being bad.
08-17-05, 02:42 PM
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whats mmo? and i just tried to turn the car over by the belt and it did not budge . hey my car is a 88t2 so if carbon is going to start comeing out the exhaust portsdo i need to take off the turbo? and what about the tach going up to 2 grand when i turn the key. thanks for all the help so far
. hey my car is a 88t2 so if carbon is going to start comeing out the exhaust portsdo i need to take off the turbo? and what about the tach going up to 2 grand when i turn the key. thanks for all the help so far
08-17-05, 02:48 PM
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MMO = Marvel Mystery Oil. You can also use ATF (automatic transmission fluid), but that's a bit more harsh.
I think I had so much carbon coming off the rotors because the insides of the engine where exposed to air for a week, which completely dried out the carbon. If you're in a similar situation, then I don't really know if you should be worried about the turbo, but I probably would be.
The 2K thing is really odd.
I think I had so much carbon coming off the rotors because the insides of the engine where exposed to air for a week, which completely dried out the carbon. If you're in a similar situation, then I don't really know if you should be worried about the turbo, but I probably would be.
The 2K thing is really odd.
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08-18-05, 09:53 AM
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ok how much mmo should i put in there? also my dad has a fogger thing but for it to suck up the oil im going to have to thin it out a little. i was thinking i could mix the mmo with a little kerosene then fog up the whole inside through the exhaust and sparkplug holes. does that sound like a good idea?
08-18-05, 10:13 AM
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MMO is a pretty light oil, so I don't think you have to cut it with anything. You just have to get into the rotor chambers somehow...a spray bottle, a vacuum bulb...whatever works. Fogging oil comes in a spray can.
08-18-05, 10:57 AM
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Yeah, I don't think too much is the problem here. The problem is, is the oil going to reach the affected spot? If it works, the excess will go out the exhaust and then the rest will be burned up once the engine starts up.
08-18-05, 01:19 PM
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ok i got the car with the guy telling me the motor was blown. i got a 88t2 for free. well i started checking it and the starter was blown. so i got a new starter and when i put it in the motor would not even budge. so everyone told me to get some mmo and put it in there and use a breaker bar to break carbon loose. so back to the question at hand, did i get the right mmo product?
08-18-05, 01:26 PM
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Blown in what sense, apex seal, coolant seal? Either way it will need a good rebuilding. If the motor is blown, are you just trying to start it, check it to see it it will turn over..?
MMO is mmo, you can try it out and see if itll work. But if its apex seal pieces wedging the rotor, you will probably cause more damage.
MMO is mmo, you can try it out and see if itll work. But if its apex seal pieces wedging the rotor, you will probably cause more damage.
08-18-05, 02:06 PM
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Sure there is...take apart the engine 
At least that's the only way I know of.
Add the MMO, let it sit for at least a day, then try turning it over - by hand first, then with a breaker bar and moderate force. If it's a jammed apex seal, then the starter motor has probably already done enough damage.
BTW, I just went to pick up some MMO over lunch for the initial start of my 'new' engine, but walked out with Lucas Fuel Treatment instead. The Lucas product talked plenty about removing carbon, but the MMO didn't say a thing about carbon.
At least that's the only way I know of.Add the MMO, let it sit for at least a day, then try turning it over - by hand first, then with a breaker bar and moderate force. If it's a jammed apex seal, then the starter motor has probably already done enough damage.
BTW, I just went to pick up some MMO over lunch for the initial start of my 'new' engine, but walked out with Lucas Fuel Treatment instead. The Lucas product talked plenty about removing carbon, but the MMO didn't say a thing about carbon.
08-18-05, 03:02 PM
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Try it out, or get aerosol carb cleaner and saturate the rotors through the lower spark plug holes and jiggle the main pully. But i think your best route would be to pop that engine open and see if anything is wrong. If everything checks and specs out, a couple hundred dollars will close the engine up and add some peice of mind. And if things dont check out, you got it for free, you could part it out for some change
08-18-05, 04:05 PM
#23
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Just thought I would leave my input.
In the past few weeks that I have been working on the FC again sitting in my driveway it got locked. Basically my front rotor was low on compression and my rear was fine. I felt it was stuck seals. Well in attempt to at least get some more compression out of it I did the ATF treatment. I then ran the motor for a bit late the next day to burn the ATF out so that it would not eat up the o-rings. I try and make a point to turn the motor each day. This somehow slipped my mined for near a week. When I realized this I went to turn it and it would not budge. Basically I grab the drive pulley with my hands and rotate it. So I stuck a 19mm socket on it and gently with a 3/8th ratchet tried to titan it no good. I tried reveres no good. :-/ I went and put some MMO down each intake port let it sit for 30 seconds. With my hands I worked the motor back and forth. I added another 1/8th OZ down each port again. The motor begun to move more and more, I heard a few small cracks all wile being very careful and not applying much force at all by hand on the pulley. After it rotated 1/2 I pored a little more MMP down. I rotated 1/2 again and repeated until I cycled all 6 points. The motor spins fine by hand now and I continue to turn it each day with ease.
Did I lose an APEX? I don’t know yet we will see in a few days but I hope not.
In the past few weeks that I have been working on the FC again sitting in my driveway it got locked. Basically my front rotor was low on compression and my rear was fine. I felt it was stuck seals. Well in attempt to at least get some more compression out of it I did the ATF treatment. I then ran the motor for a bit late the next day to burn the ATF out so that it would not eat up the o-rings. I try and make a point to turn the motor each day. This somehow slipped my mined for near a week. When I realized this I went to turn it and it would not budge. Basically I grab the drive pulley with my hands and rotate it. So I stuck a 19mm socket on it and gently with a 3/8th ratchet tried to titan it no good. I tried reveres no good. :-/ I went and put some MMO down each intake port let it sit for 30 seconds. With my hands I worked the motor back and forth. I added another 1/8th OZ down each port again. The motor begun to move more and more, I heard a few small cracks all wile being very careful and not applying much force at all by hand on the pulley. After it rotated 1/2 I pored a little more MMP down. I rotated 1/2 again and repeated until I cycled all 6 points. The motor spins fine by hand now and I continue to turn it each day with ease.
Did I lose an APEX? I don’t know yet we will see in a few days but I hope not.
08-18-05, 04:34 PM
#24
take the leading plugs out and listen for compression while spinning by hand. if you hear large wooshes from front and rear rotors when spinning, you still hve all apex seals.
08-18-05, 04:37 PM
#25
Originally Posted by kungfuroy
Blown in what sense, apex seal, coolant seal? Either way it will need a good rebuilding. If the motor is blown, are you just trying to start it, check it to see it it will turn over..?
MMO is mmo, you can try it out and see if itll work. But if its apex seal pieces wedging the rotor, you will probably cause more damage.
MMO is mmo, you can try it out and see if itll work. But if its apex seal pieces wedging the rotor, you will probably cause more damage.
If the previous owner blew an apex seal while driving, then he isnt going to do the motor any more damage by hand. just pour atf down the ports and spin the engine gently at first, and add more force untill it moves. Like i said, if an apex seal is broken, you've already messed up that rotor and housing. If its just carboned up, you can get it started and run water through the engine to help clean the apex and side seals.
brandon