cristalynnart

http://www.advancedinductionresearch.com/

they're already on some cars, and places can make them.

what do you think?

would a carbon fiber intake be cool? think it's something that we could make to replace our intakes? or even duplicate out intakes in carbon fiber?

http://www.rotaryeng.net/carbon-intake.txt

a link on how to make the mold.

i'm getting more and more thinking about it..

RotaryWeaponSE7EN

iTrader: (6)

would be cool and expensive part to have.

cristalynnart

i've got nothing but time to play with this ****, and the more i read, the more ready i am to to start

i'm thinking i can make a mold out of those clown blaoons that they shape into dogs and ****, coat the baloon in a resin for the mold, and then carbon fiber over over that.

FC_DRFT

I use to work at a company that made composite fan blades for the most powerful jet engines in the world!! The process is quite simple, curing with the correct autoclave is the key.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

While it's a neat idea, the price would be high enough that anyone who actually needed to save the weight a carbon fibre intake would save has probably already moved onto a different intake design.

Take a look at the thread below to learn how complex the 2nd gen intake manifold really is. Ignore the flaming and fighting in the thread. Regardless of how much of a disaster the thread became it contains some good info.

https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/custom-intake-manifolds-672320/

cristalynnart

lookin at it now, thanks.

i'm thinking, cause i'm supercharging the engine, the whole vdi pressure wave thing will be done away with, so the carbon fiber one would not have a vdi, but keep the 6pts. i'd keep the lowest engine intake, and carbon fiber from that to the throttle body, replacing the exten manifold and 1st chamber after the tb.

i'm well aware of how comples it is, but then i look at the turbo manifold, and theres none of this stuff. i'm thinking of making a hybrid using the 6pts - the vdi, and whatnot.

if you look at some of the older intakes, they're much simpler, and they worked, and if you buy the camden charger they do away with most of the origonal intake.

as for the money issue, not really a problem, i've been funded to play as i wish.

in a few weeks i'll start playing and if it works, there'll be pics and such.

we'll see

cristalynnart

the shock wave from the rotor closing... does this occur on a turbo? there is no vdi on a turbo, no 6pts.

does the pressure from the boost change everything?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Why not just keep the whole stock intake? The VDI certainly won't hurt.

Yes, the turbo manifold is almost a regular plenum and runner design. It does retain the progressive throttle though. Since the turbo engines are 4 port, they are a whole different animal then the NA 6 port engines. Even if Mazda wanted to build a DEI intake for the 4 port they would have a very hard time getting the result they would with the 6 port.

The Camden setup is crap, truthfully. Just search for "camden" to see the poor results people have had. As I recall there's been one kit going around the 2nd gen forum for years now, from owner to owner. It's killed at least one engine and no one has made it work correctly. As Camden did away with the stock intake manifold it's a real pain to make the car idle, the throttle tip in sucks, and the low load is horrid. Camden did away with the whole progressive throttle setup which was a major, major mistake.

To be brutally honest, I think your whole supercharger idea is a massive waste of money. Centrifugal superchargers just don't work well on the rotary. Neither do roots blowers. But it's your money, so who am I to say how it should be spent?

A pressure wave occurs anytime a rotor closes a port, but as the turbo manifold is a straight plenum design, I don't believe it is used in any significant way.

It makes it a lot easier to cover up mistakes in the manifold design. Turbo manifolds are generally much simpler because you don't need to spend a lot of R&D to scrape every little bit of flow you can. Just turn the boost up until you make the power you want.

j0rd4n

why does everyone who wants to boost a 6-port assume that ditching the VDI is necessary??? just because you're force-feeding the baby doesn't mean the vdi isn't still being used :/

cristalynnart

why arent blowers good for rotarys? because it's belt driven? just wondering

and after a **** load of reading the intake threads, maybe the s5 intake system isnt so bad afterall, but it could still weigh less.

and the supercharger i plan on using isnt the camden, its the paxton. i'm going to remove the air pump and put it right there, keeping everything else as it is. the only thing that changes is the loss of the afm due to the standalone, and the piping from the blower to the tb.

shouldnt be a problem, should it?

Turbo II Rotor

iTrader: (2)

How much HP are you expecting to make with this supercharger?

cristalynnart

i'm expecting anywhere from 50 to 75. i'm also putting the tru duals and porting the motor, which is going to be built from scratch, brand new parts, mazdatrix's F level, and a standalone, then dyno tuned.

i expect it to be a strong set up

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

It's not that they're bad, it's that no one has every really set one up properly.

The Camden kit for example uses an antiquated roots blower that barely flows enough air. To spin it fast enough means a tiny pulley, and thus the blower eats itself. Combine that with the fact that it's very difficult to make our progressive throttle bodies work with a positive displacement blower and you have a poor design. Camden just eliminated the whole concept of primary and secondary ports, while adding a big load onto the engine. Many people need a 1500 RPM idle to keep the car happy when the added drag of the supercharger is in place.

The price of the Camden kit will make your eyes water.

Centrifugal superchargers sort of have the same issues. The old Paxton/Nelson kit had to overpseed the blower to get enough air. They didn't last long because of it, the mounting brackets broke, and it pushed a lot of heat into the engine.

Most of the superchargers around are either too large, or two small.

In theory a Lysholm supercharger would be a great match if properly sized but the price keeps everyone away (and it has the same issues as the roots regarding the manifold).

The 13B pumps a LOT of air. Superchargers for 4-8 cylinder engines aren't going to do the job.

Turbo upgrades for the 13B are full frame T4 sized turbos. Aftermarket turbo kits for the V8 cars are most often T3 frame turbos. Our engine moves enough air and has enough exhaust energy to easily spool even T6 frame turbos. A little blower that's out of flow on a Mustang at 5000 RPM isn't going to do squat on a rotary.

True enough.

I was using the Camden as an example, but it's a similar situation with the Paxton.

It's just not worth the money. Getting 200 to the wheels is a realistic expectation, maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less.

The supercharger is making so little power that a standalone isn't really even required. Just get an upgraded fuel pump and a rising rate regulator.

Just bolting on a crappy stock turbo (that was designed in the last century, is bordering on too small, pushes heat after 10 PSI, eats itself around 14 PSI and is probably already worn out) and running it at 10 PSI will get you 230-240 HP to the wheels on that engine.

And it won't be loud to the level of being unholy with the true dual exhausts.

cristalynnart

well see how it goes. i'll post pics of the whole build from start to finish, and also post the dyno slips. i'm getting a plasma cutter and a mig to weld and create the brackets, the pully on the blower is small enough, self lubricating and i'm going to set up a pulley system to run the whole thing.

also, getting the standalone will allow the car to be a lot finelier tuned, and i can ditch the afm.

cristalynnart

after a lot of consideration, if and when i make the carbon fiber intake, i think i'm going to duplicate the stock s5 manifold, vdi included, however, do it so that it's designed with all of the little nipples for all the emmissions stuff removed.

i'm guessing i should keep the bac since it helps with the idle, maybe move the injectors once i get it taken apart, but i'm pretty confident that i can duplicate the runners and vdi.

SDrotary-FC

we still have'nt talked you out of the super charger idea yet?

j0rd4n

we still have'nt talked you out of the super charger and carbon fiber intakes idea yet?

corrected

cristalynnart

nope, sorry dude. i'm set on it. i've got the means and the want to cut no corners and make it work properly. i'm not knocking turbos, or their problems, but i just want something different.

there are positives. no lag, it can still be geared and set to my powerband i'm looking for, weighs less, is cheaper...

i'm looking forward to seeing how it all turns out

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

It's going to be difficult to duplicate the S5 intake. Certainly a lot more expensive then the simple plenum and runner style manifolds shown on the websites you previously linked to.

Your first step should be to obtain an S5 NA intake and then completely disassemble it. You'll then see the parts involved and can make a decision on the carbon fibre.

Without a doubt you'll want to retain the BAC. You should also put serious thought into keeping the cold start cam and thermowax. Though that's more of a throttle body function.

Turbo lag is a myth when we are talking about properly sized turbos and proper tuning. Seriously, it doesn't exist. A stock HT-18 on a high compression engine makes instant boost. It's akin to an on/off switch. Plant the pedal at 1500 RPM and get wastegate pressure. The last high compression engine I built (GSL-SE block, HT-18) won't stay out of boost in 5th gear on the highway. We had to stage the secondaries at 2500 RPM until the primaries were upgraded.

And keep in mind that the little crappy stock turbo will put down 250HP easily.

Will the supercharge weigh less? Maybe.

No way that it will cheaper. Not a chance in hell, in fact.

As for gearing it to your powerband, that's a major disadvantage. You'll either have to spin it fast down low in which case it will overspeed up top. Also, you'll end up with having to run a bypass valve (or several!) to keep the blower happy when pushing air against a closed throttle body. Gear it so it's happy up top and you won't get any meaningful boost down low. The extra drag from the supercharger will also make the engine feel anemic.

Turbochargers in contrast make their boost independent of engine RPM, but based on engine load. With a properly sized turbo you can set whatever boost level at whatever RPM and throttle position you want.

I'm just trying to save you a lot of wasted money and heartache. But I'm eager to start reading your thread and follow your progress. Maybe you'll be the one person to actually make this work.

cristalynnart

thanks.

it'll be a little while before the pics start comming in, but i assure you, once things get going, the pics will be shown here first

as for the price, the blower is 2300 for the highest model, curved external piping, polished, pumps 1200 cfm. with that and a little tubing, making my own brackets, the pulleys and a belt, thats all i need.

i priced turbos and set ups; manifolds, turbo, piping, to say the least, and its not cheap. not comparitively to the blower. i looked into doing a completer turbo set up and it was well past the 7K$ mark, for everything.

Turbo II Rotor

iTrader: (2)

That's impossible. You could make more power than the supercharger with a stock turbo for less than $2k.

cristalynnart

with a used stock turbo?

everything that is going into this car is going to be new. i priced a brand new stock turbo. 1500$. thats just the turbo. without cutting corners, i'd need the turbo ecu, intercooler, manifold and exaust, fuel cut switch, injectors, and a few other things.

introVert

See sig for blower setup.

I am making 220rwhp. at a total cost of ~1500.00.

V V V V

cristalynnart

i can see the pic of the blower in your avatar. thats the paxton one. but i cant find your sig. is there a link? i'd be very interested in seeing it if you have any pics.

introVert

http://www.southern-shift.com/phpBB3...d=16&mode=view


Sorry about the crappy phone pic- not sure if it even posted- I am at work, and sometimes the images won't display.