Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

At work the other day my car wouldn't start. My car has always taken several tries before it will actually crank over the starter, but it wouldn't do it at all this time, and continues to behave the same way. I can push start it and it works great. The battery is good - shows 12+ volts static, and 14 volts when running. Battery terminals are clean, and it has nearly new ground wires. When I turn the key I hear a "click" and I can hear the fuel pump kick on. Also, it is an s4 with no anti-theft system.

I have searched and from what I can tell I just need to run a new wire from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid. I have a few questions: first, what color is the wire coming out of the ignition switch? Second, is the start solenoid you are talking about the solenoid on top of the starter? If so, would I just attach the new wire directly to the small snap-on connector (black wire I think)? From what I read I need to keep that wire connected to the ignition switch as well for the ECU functions.

Thanks in advance for the help!

Turbo II Rotor

iTrader: (2)

I would have the starter tested. Sounds like the solenoid is still good but the brushes may be too worn and the started doesn't have torque.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

I forgot to post this in the original post, but the starter is almost brand new, maybe 3k on the car since I put it in. I actually replaced it when I had a similar problem last year thinking it was the starter, but it was actually bad grounds. That was when I ran all new ground wires, which fixed the problem that time around.

The reason I think it is a faulty wire is that even on a good day I have to turn the key 5-10 times to get it to finally turn.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

I think I finally found the right page on the wiring diagram. It appears it is a Black/Red wire, is this correct? From looking at the diagram, though, (page 50-15 of the FSM) it looks like there is another B/R wire that goes to the fuse box...

GeTCrAzYKiD

I tried to fix a buddy of mines car with the same problem, I went as far as resoldering the ignition switch and replacing it and it still didnt work. regrounded and swapped out the starter with my own no change. I've also read trying to take off all the keys off your key ring and try just using the car key. Somthing about the extra weight. Try a search I know its out there I'm just lazy

Delicious

try cleaning all the oil off your starter

katkaroto

just test the starter at a local auto store. then check your wires

wrankin

Static voltage (I assume that means you are testing with the engine off) means nothing - a completely dead battery will show 12v at the terminals with no load. Voltage with the engine running is merely measuring your alternator output. Measure the voltage at the terminals while you are trying to start it. If it drops significantly (which I am guessing it will) try replacing it with a known good battery (steal the one out of your girlfriends car if needed) and see if that solves the problem.

Good luck,

-bill

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Ok, so I did some testing on it. First, I tried starting it again normally, and as usually nothing. There is essentially not voltage drop when trying to start it, its like the starter isn't even trying. Next, I jacked up the car and jumpered the POS wire with the solendoid connection. Some sparks, but no movement out of the starter. At this point, I checked the wires, and got a resistance drop of .4 ohms from the battery terminal to the POS post on the starter, so I think the wire is in pretty good shape. Yes I realise it might not be enough for the load, but I don't really have a way to test for that, and it at least verified that its a pretty decent connection. Next, I pushed the car out of the garage to try jump starting it. Nothing. There was over 13 volts on it, and it still sat there like normal.

At this point, I'm just going to pull the starter to get it tested, but I can't get to it until tomorrow.

If anyone else has any ideas, let me know!

Doc-1

iTrader: (2)

There is a relay in the driver side kick panel. It is the theft protection lockout relay. It is likely bad.

cmanns

Whenever my batt was low it'd click.

Oddly the neg wire (had my amp hooked up ghetto) and pos seemed to of slipped off weird.... disconnected them and bam she fired up. No the amp never took much power... was odd we just stopped at a taco bell after a hard run and it was just clicking.

Sometimes it'd click and if held down she'd start after a few.... was a very weak battery (and alternator died few months later)

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

It doesn't have anti-theft. Also, I jumpered the positive post of the starter with the clip for the starter solenoid, which should bypass any of the usual starting stuff like that.

HAILERS

If you jumper the small blade for the trigger wire on the solenoid to the positive cable wire attached to the solenoid...........and the starter did not turn over but you got a lot of sparks........the solenoid is dead/shot or the starter is kaput. Most likely the starter imho. Sorry 'bout that.

What you did is a sure shot way of finding out if the wiring TO the starter is the culprit or if the starter/solenoid is the problem. I'd get another starter myself.

Yeah, B/R is the color of the wire leaving the ignition switch headed to the starter. It finally turns into a b/w wire after leaving the starter cut relay (theft relay...non theft cars have a BLUE jumper connector connected to the harness in lieu of the relay). There is another connector b/t the starter cut relay and the starter solenoid.........but the wire on the solenoid is supposed to be b/w although I remember it being black. Probably discolored over the yrs.

EDIT; Just pull the small wire off the solenoid and bridge the gap b/t the small blade on the solenoid with the large positive cable attached to the solenoid and the starter should turn over. This is what I THINK you said you did in your post above. If so, and the starter did not turn over, but you got nothing but a lot of sparking, then the starter is indeed shot.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Thanks Hailers, thats what I was looking for (and thanks to the others for help as well). Also, on the ignition switch, there are actually two red/black wires, one big and one small. Which is it? I couldn't make out the markings on the side of th switch.

HAILERS

It should be the B/R all alone by itself. IF this was an automatic it would be B/G instead...

Goes from the ignition switch........to the clutch interlock switch if your car came with one............to a BLUE jumer locted under the trail coil area........to another connecter inbetween there and the solenoid......then to the solenoid.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

When I pulled of the steering wheel surround and looked at the back of the ignition switch, there were 5 wires (I think) - 3 large and 2 small. One of the large ones is Black with a red stripe and one of the small ones is red with a blacks stripe. Is it the large one that is black with a red stripe?

HAILERS

I'm talking about the elect plugs on the end of the ignition switch pigtail. I am not talking about the pigtail wire colors. I never look at those.

Follow the ignition switch pigtail wires down and fwd and you'll find the electrical plugs that connect the ignition switch pitail to the Front harness. THOSE are the ones I talk about.

Pure black on the Front side of the plug is power from the Main Fuse.

BLACK/WHITE is the color of the wire FROM the igniton switch plug to the interior fuse box to feed the row of fuses called IG1.

BLUE wire going from the ignition switch is going to the interior fuse box to feed the AUX row of fuses.

Small red/black wire going from the ignition switch to the interior fuse box feeds the row of fuses called IG2.

Large Black/Red wire in a plug alllll by itself is the starter wire. See attached jpg and remember I'm only talking about the wires that connect to the ignition switch pigtail. IF the wires in the pigtail match the wire colors of the wires in the front half of the elect plug, thats just fine and dandy. I never have looked to see if that's so or ...not.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Thats what I was looking for, thank you! And yes, that sounds like the same colors. I'm about to head over to pull the starter and check it out. Found where I bought it from, it has a lifetime warranty, and found where they have one in stock. Hopefully thats the problem and I can have it running soon!

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

I am officially an idiot. I pulled the starter, got it tested, and it worked fine. I looked at it, and there was a nut still on the POS post of the starter. I removed it, used it to tighten down the POS wire, reinstalled it, and it works better than the starter has ever worked on this car. Problem solved, and thanks for all of the help.