loquin23

ok i just put my car back on the road(88 gxl) and all has been going very well for about 1500 miles. the other day on the way to go to the parts store to get oil and plugs and it starts to do a lil of the 3800 rpm hesitation on the way home. i drive back about ten miles total and change the oil and plugs and then i got nothing at the starter nothing at all everything else has power but it wont attempt to crank at all.... i tried searching but no luck any ideas where to start looking ?

Craiger

iTrader: (1)

There is limited things it could be. I would start by getting a friend to turn the key while you lightly tap the starter solinoid with a hammer or other blunt object.

HAILERS

When you turn the key to ON, does the Warning LIght Cluster light up or not. It should. I assume your car was not broken and was working normal prior to this event, so those red Warning Lights should light up if the key is put to ON.

I did not say START, I said ON.

So, if they don't light up, that indicates your Main fuse is blown or the single wire that feeds the ignition switch from the engine bay fuse box is *open*. Make sure it's single wire plug is connected. It's located about a half foot below the engine bay fuse box and opposite where the a/c compressor would sit if you had one.

Things like headlights will work if this power to the key is lost. Not related to each other.

You also would not hear the Main Relay CLICK when the key is put to ON, if power is lost to the ignition switch. Also the instruments would not work/move if you lose power to the ignition switch.

Wiper motor would not work either if the key was put to ON and you lost power to the ignition switch.

But if THOSE things work, then you've an incomplete circuit from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid. Like the interlock switch could be shot or the small wire done falled off the starter solenoid.

To see if the starter solenoid is any good, get under the car with it out of gear. Put the shank of a screwdriver b/t the small blade on the starter solenoid and the large wire on the solenoid. Starter should turn over, not just spark with no action. IF the starter turns over, it isn't the solenoid. It's an open wire b/t the solenoid and key. IF the car was in gear and you jumpered as mentioned, you just ran you butt over and are in the hospital now.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

I trust you'll send a card.

loquin23

i allready got the starter off so im going to go get it tested.... i was thinking interlock switch im going to go try to see if i can get my fat butt up in to it to bypass it and see what happens....

loquin23

ok so far i have had the starter tested it passed.
i tried turning the key on none of my idiot lights came on... not sure how well they work anyways though.... wipers do come on tho....
i guess i am going to go try the interlockswitch im dreading that i am a big dude and thats a lil area.....

HAILERS

Two quick things you can check to make sure the ignition key is getting power. Key to ON and jumper the yellow, two socket, fuel pump check connector located near the pressure sensor and afm area. IF, when you jumper it and hear the fuel pump run continuously, then I'm wrong about the *no power to the ignition*.

Then again, you say the wipers work with the key to ON, so that disproves my thoughts on no power to the ignition switch. The WARNING lights on a NORMAL car, all come on when the key is initially put to ON. They go out when the alternator starts spinning and putting out.

Or if you HEAR the click of the Main Relay when you put the key to ON, then I'm wrong about the ignition not getting power.

About the interlock switch. You could pull it's plug off and then jumper a wire b/t the two sockets in the harness plug. THEN go turn the key to START. The starter should turn over without pushing the clutch pedal if you do that.

loquin23

tried jumpingthe inerlockswitch still nothing

loquin23

and when i turn key i hear stuff click and turn on .. my car has crappy switces and stuff wipers only work on one speed any ways idot lights are well you know old fc crap ........

HAILERS

Do you hear a click if you go from ON to START? If you hear a click when you do that, then that click is the starter solenoid clicking.

I'm not talking going from OFF to ON and hearing a click. THAT click is the Main Relay pullng in. But if you hear a click each time the key is moved from On to START, then that click is the starter solenoid.

Plus..........does your car have THEFT protection??????

loquin23

i dont think i hear the click your talking about... i do have theft protection .... i tried to jump the starter with a srewdriver and it did crank..... i cant find a conecter i may have knocked off .. can i just run a new wire if so where to i asume i would trie the little one first... .... thanks hailers...

HAILERS

Could POSSIBLY be a Theft Unit problem. There is, on cars with THEFT protection, a relay called Starter Cut Relay. It's located ........a screw, I've never seen one. It's near the TRAIL coils assy. IF the THEFT unit puts a gnd on this relay, the starter circuit is opened. A way of finding out if this is the problem, on a series four anyway, is to pull the plug(s)off the THEFT unit. Located on the passengers speaker. The speaker just above his legs. Just under the glove box. You have to remove about six screws to drop that unit. Unplug it, and the Starter cut relay is good to go (works now).

I think that starter cut relay is located near the Main Relay. THE plug on the relay should have the wire colors of the attached jpg.

If you remove that plug from the relay, then get a piece of wire and jumper b/t the LARGE black/white and the LARGE Green/Black, THEN try startng the car, things should work IF the problem was the THEFT unit.

loquin23

no luck jumping the teft system...... can i try and rurun this wire real quick or add a buton to get me by for the moment........ something i gotta about thirty minutes ... or im outta trip to the dr and getting to see my son... sorry starting to stress

loquin23

how would i wire the starter like that some asswholery crap..... wire power to the littile wire on the starter with a button?

HAILERS

Yeah. A switch. One post on the switch to a source of batt voltage. The other going to the small wire or the small post on the starter solenoid. Flip the switch to On and the starter turns. Engine starts flip the switch off real quick.

loquin23

hooked up a wire and switch turns but just gets slower slower never enuf to turn over ... all while the car is being jumped for extra power....

loquin23

ok so i got the car to start with a button. but it wont stay running more than about ten min tops. u think this is a standered charging issue. or something else, the battery and alt are new.

loquin23

ok everyone as i posted the car went into the whole 3800 rpm hesitation crap right before i was going to change oil and plugs and junk. after changing them car would not start ... even with a jump
after going over interlock switches alarm crap yada yada i hooked up the button to the starter still wouldnt crank .... ok so i took back the battery and got a new bigger one .... pretty much the biggest one i could fit in the tray.. prob about 25 % bigger in ca and cca cant rember exact numbers... well the car starts and the alternator charges but only to 11.9 to 12.20 just enuf to keep it running in the driveway..but pretty much undriveable..... i tried to drive here it in town and it still dooes the 3800 hesitation along with a nice violent bucking that ensures your going nowere.

i know that sounds simple prob the alternator..... i went to get it tested but somebody punched the screen at the local parts store.... so yeah...
im just wondering if there is something else that could cause this.... power issues were solved a couple months ago.. and my only starting issues were flooding on quick restarts, plus none of my idiot lights are coming on.

HAILERS

Yeah. Look at the small plug on the back of the alternator and see if it's connected to the alternator or not.

IF that plug is off, then the warining lights won't come on when you put the key to ON , prior to Start.

Also make sure the ROOM fuse is good. IT has NOTHING to do with the actual output of the alternator, but it IS the fuse that feeds the Warning Lights thru the alternator relay inside the CPU on series four cars. Not applicable to series five (the relay in the CPU).

The Black/White wire on the top of the small plug is the one that makes the regulator inside the alternator work. The White/Black is the one that puts a gnd on the relay inside the CPU to make the Warning lights work.

I've seen alternators work with that plug off. If the engine was rev'd quickly to over four grand the alternator would put out, but it was unregulated voltage which HARMS things electrical in the ECU, CPU where ever.

loquin23

the plug is plugged in i know that cuz ive checked several times .... im going to go look for that room fuse.... dont mean to be so helpless i usally search and lurk my problems out like that but im confused were to look ... since all this went wrong when i changed plugs and oil or right before when i started that 3800 rpm heisitaion....

loquin23

that room fuse is good ...
wondering? could i have some kinda other problem like a cpu or ecu maybee ... what would cause all these problems at once?

HAILERS

Well, the alternator is pretty easy to figure out. Pull the small plug off the alternator. See that there is batt voltage on both wires with the key to ON. Then pull the Room fuse and see that batt power is NOT on the white/black wire anymore. Then pull the ENGINE fuse and see that batt power is not on the Black/White wire anymore. Then put both fuse back in.

So, then, with key OFF, check with your meter to see if there is batt voltage on the large output wire of the alternator. Should be.

OR, instead of, or along with the above, put the key to ON, engine OFF. Leaving the small plug on the alternator, backprobe the WHITE/BLACK wire (THE L TERMINAL) and see if it has approx one volt dc on it. IT SHOULD. If not, and there was batt voltage on the Black/White wire, then the alternator is kaput/no damn good/useless/a boat anchor. Replace same. Or ***** the wire with a sewing needle and put a meter to the needle to read the voltage.

I guess I should have said to first put a meter to the large output terminal of the alternator with the engine running, and see what that voltage is. If it's just 12.5 or so.....tough. Then do the above.
The above applies to a stock series four alternator, not a series five installed in a series four.

loquin23

ok with the key on both wires have 11 1/2 and with the key off white has one volt nothing on black...... is that the alt... or somethin leading to it?

loquin23

i dont mind to buy a new alternator but i did just buy one from a forum member about a month ago... i just cant afford to go spend 120 bucks on a new one and something on my car is going to fry it...

HAILERS

I might have not been too clear. Here's what I wanted to do. Pull the small plug off and check for voltage on with wires in the plug. Should have batt voltage on both.

THEN reattach the plug and start the engine. While the engine is running, backprobe the bottom wire (white with black stripe i.e. W/B). It should have one to three volts dc. Did you do that??????????? Remember, the plug has to be on the alternator an engine idling.