sciff5

iTrader: (1)

So I've been Autoxing my car for the last couple weekends and I intend to keep doing it. I improved my times on the track about 10 seconds from the beginning of the day compared to the end, then I handed the car over to an Instructor who then improved those times almost another full 10 seconds

What can I say I'm slow.

THe car is a multipurpose vehicle jack of all trades. I bring it to the drag strip, throw some ET streets on it and run mid 11s then bring it to the Autox and have fun, then do hillclimb events, drifting events ect with it depending on whatever is going on in the area. Its just got some RB springs and kyb agx struts with the RB front sway bar and no rear bar, and falken azenis 615 tires. Problem is the car understeers like crazy and the instructor driving it said he had to left foot brake and drive it like his crx to get it to really turn in.


After only a few laps the outside corners of my front tires are already getting chewed up. I need some camber up front.

I found these camber plates and wanted to know if they'de work with my setup

http://www.ground-control-store.com/...ion.php/II=139

I already have a camber link out back too

Let me know

Thanks,
Josh

jjcobm

iTrader: (18)

The way I have been taught is that if you want to eliminate oversteer you add a front sway bar, this will make the car have a more "understeer characteristic" to counter to oversteer. If you want to correct understeer, you add a thicker sway bar on the rear.

So seeing as you have removed the rear sway bar, the car will now have understeer characteristics. I think the best thing to do in your situation is to replace the rear sway bar and see how the stock one feels, if its still not enough add a thicker one on the rear. Honestly from driving my car with stock sway bars out in the touge it wants to oversteer more than understeer. There have been times where the car will want to understeer a bit due to taking the corner in late, but thats nothing throttle steering will not correct.

I am sure more people will chime in as I never taken a car out to the "track", but do have classroom experience with suspension and this is what I can tell you about it.

As for the camber plates, someone else will need to chime in on that.....

sciff5

iTrader: (1)

Still looking for info

Bump

When I had the RB rear sway bar on the car, I never got a chance to push it in any corners, but transient response from the handling was snappy, like snap oversteer type of bad manners. I would get on the gas, break the tires loose and the car would snap sideways too violently, and then when it came back it came back hard and felt like it was going to snap oversteer. I havent put the rear bar on since, seeing as the car seems to just be easier to drive without it. I'll figure out the suspension eventually. I just really need some camber out front so let me know

wrankin

The simplest thing to do is call GroundControl and ask. Having said that, from what I recall those plates should work fine with the KYBs. You definitely need some neg camber in front, esp if you have dropped the car at all (IIRC the RB springs lower it by a bit).

Have you done the DTSS elimination? If not, that should be next on your list.

sciff5

iTrader: (1)

Yup did the dtss eliminators, Might not have added anything in actual traction but the car is a lot more easy to control now.

The big thing is I dont want to go with the ground controls and a stiffer springs.. one because I have a long way to go before maximizing this setup. Last Autox an instructor jumped in the car (who usually races a FWD CRX) and never races RWD car and he still shaved 7 seconds off my best time his very first time out.
And two, the stiffer I go chances are the worse my dragstrip performance will be. I also need to be able to fit slicks out back. Right now my 27" Et streets barely fit, so even if I go with a stiffer spring I dont want to drop the car any more. I wonder how much the ground controls drop the car at their highest setting

wrankin

There are several different schools of thought on this. In fact the one that I have heard more often is "don't mess with the end that isn't broken" (the opposite of your approach).

A lot of track folks (incl myself) run no rear bar in order to get the back to bite a little better when getting on the power coming out of turns. In auto-x the needs are a little different and you may want to make the back end a little more lively to aid in rotation. It depends on the driver and the driving style.

The other important reason for running a heavy front sway bar is to try and reduce body roll as much as possible. This is because of the nature of our McPherson strut front end - you lose camber under bump. This is a Bad Thing, esp in auto-x. So you run a heavier front bar to reduce camber loss and deal with the bit of understeer at corner entry by reducing entry speed. The trade off is better bite and handling at corner exit.

Others have different opinions, but this is what has worked for me.

Good luck,

-b

sciff5

iTrader: (1)

found these as well.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...&category=6755

Even less info available about these

sciff5

iTrader: (1)

Bump

I contacted Ground control and never heard anything back.. Hope this isnt what their customer service is usually like in cas I get the GC/koni setup and have any issues

LargeOrangeFont

iTrader: (7)

The GC plates will work for you. The MK1 ebay plates will work as well, but they do not have caster adjustment.

I would say the GC plates are worth the extra money if you deside to go that route. You may need to do some light grinding/sanding on the strut shaft, where is passes through the bearing, but nothing major.

I just went down this road a few months ago and ended up with a full coilover kit.

funkjaw

iTrader: (3)

Get a stock sway bar for the back.

LargeOrangeFont

iTrader: (7)

Your rear tires are too big. Go with smaller tires, and a rear sway bar.

mine was much better after a rear tire change. I went from 245/45/17s to 235/40/17s, same size I have in front. BC coilovers with RB swaybars front and rear.

The car cuts a lot better into corners now, but will still push the nose a bit on exit if you are on the power.

sciff5

iTrader: (1)

For now
I was actually thinking about trying to put the 255s on front and if I could I was gonna put them up front and the 235s out back. Other than not having as much traction out of corners I would think it would help.

I had 245/45/17s up front before and they fit fine, so I may get lucky with the 255s but I doubt it. We'll see

I just found out in another thread that I should get the 14mm version of the GC camber plates to fit my kyb agxs can anyone confirm this? I am also thinkin about getting the ground control threaded body as well with the camber plates, and fitting some slightly stiffer (but more importantly) narrower springs, so the tires will clear the spring, and that are static spring rates instead of the linear/progressive RB springs. That alone should help.

LargeOrangeFont

iTrader: (7)

You are on the right track. I wrestled with this same issue, which is why I went with a coilover kit. You are going to want the coilover type springs so you can fit larger tires up front. I had non adjustable Tokico HPs on my car, and ultimately If I bought the coilover sleeves with stiffer springs and camber plates, I would need stiffer struts. So I just bought a set of adjustable coilovers. Sure for all out competition, konis or revalved bilsteins with GC coilovers are a bit better, but the coilover kit was under $900 shipped, and the GC setup would have been closer to $1400 after everything. I've been very satisfied with my setup.


The camber plates have inserts to use different brand shock shafts. There are 3 different sizes. Bilsteins have a different diameter than then OEM, and I think KYB is different still. I believe Tokico is the same as stock. I'm not 100% sure which one is which. It has been a few months since I did all the research.

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

Koni's are different, tokico and kyb are same as stock (or damn close).

You might as well get coilovers, its simpler, cheaper, and considering those autox times, you're unlikely to appreciate any advantage a koni/GC setup would offer.

I have GC w/ Tokico HP's now and it was a drastic improvement over stock for autox. I wanted to run some larger tires up front and would need camber plates to do it so I toyed w/ the idea of adding some GC plates to my setup. When I compared what it would cost to upgrade my setup (w/ adjustabe struts too) to a set of coilovers it just made sense. Plus coilovers allow you to adjust height independent of preload so you don't have springs coming off the perches everytime you hit a bump.