BLUE TII '09 hillclimb build
08-14-09, 08:46 PM
#1
BLUE TII '09 hillclimb build
So, I try to get/keep my car running for our Auto-X clubs annual hillclimb event and this year I incorporated some new changes in my engine build from when I first put the car together 8 years ago.
I was trying hard to address an issue I have had from the beginning which was limited rear traction.
First, I have upgraded to larger 17x9.5 +40 rear and 17x8.5 +30 front rims to replace my old 16x8 +30 and 16x7.5 +30 TE-37. Got em used on Ebay :P Mounted on the rims are 275/40 and 255/40 Nitto NT01; those were bought new.
I actually got the rims/tires for last years hillclimb, but blew the engine I built for that event in 5 miles. I had put in an intank Bosch '044 fuel pump and reused the rubber line from the pump to the line out of the pump cover plate; which split and caused a lean out.
Now the pump has -an fittings on it.
I was trying hard to address an issue I have had from the beginning which was limited rear traction.
First, I have upgraded to larger 17x9.5 +40 rear and 17x8.5 +30 front rims to replace my old 16x8 +30 and 16x7.5 +30 TE-37. Got em used on Ebay :P Mounted on the rims are 275/40 and 255/40 Nitto NT01; those were bought new.
I actually got the rims/tires for last years hillclimb, but blew the engine I built for that event in 5 miles. I had put in an intank Bosch '044 fuel pump and reused the rubber line from the pump to the line out of the pump cover plate; which split and caused a lean out.
Now the pump has -an fittings on it.
08-14-09, 08:56 PM
#2
I worked on the suspension as well trying to get more rear traction.
After sending in my JIC FLT-A2s to have the front rebuilt, I ended up buying the new FLT-TAR. The new rear design eliminates the top aluminum spring perch raising the shock travel from 2" before the bumpstop on the FLT-A2s to 3" before the bumpstop on the FLT-TARs.
The FLT-TAR also have much softer damping, especially on the "bump" setting. This really helped keep the rear end from breaking out on acceleration out of corners.
The new FLT-TAR feel and work great, but they are LOUD in the rear as they clunk over bumps. I haven't figured out how or if I can fix that yet and JIC didn't know.
I also put on the Mazdatrix bump steer "eliminator" kit and got a new alignment with a little more toe in at the rear to help with corner exit traction.
After sending in my JIC FLT-A2s to have the front rebuilt, I ended up buying the new FLT-TAR. The new rear design eliminates the top aluminum spring perch raising the shock travel from 2" before the bumpstop on the FLT-A2s to 3" before the bumpstop on the FLT-TARs.
The FLT-TAR also have much softer damping, especially on the "bump" setting. This really helped keep the rear end from breaking out on acceleration out of corners.
The new FLT-TAR feel and work great, but they are LOUD in the rear as they clunk over bumps. I haven't figured out how or if I can fix that yet and JIC didn't know.
I also put on the Mazdatrix bump steer "eliminator" kit and got a new alignment with a little more toe in at the rear to help with corner exit traction.
08-14-09, 09:05 PM
#3
Since that piece of metal missing from the pictured apex seal went through the turbo I had to have the BNR Stage 4 stock hybrid rebuilt.
It was getting close to the race, but Bryan at BNR came through with extraordinary effort to made sure I got my turbo in time.
I went with an unclipped "P" trim exhaust wheel this time thinking it might help low end power with the planned mild street port replacing the previous large street port.
Bryan included an oil feed restrictor as he noted my MFR oil pressure regulator was causing a slight leak at the rear turbo oil seal.
With a little drilling that fit into the new oil feed line I made up after losing the engine before last to a brand new stock oil feed line cracking.
Turns out the stock gasket is asbestos and must be used to stop the transfer of heat from turbo to oil feed flange- don't try to make your own gasket here...
I went ahead and o ringed the compressor housing since I had to reclock it and I had some viton o ring stock that fit.
It was getting close to the race, but Bryan at BNR came through with extraordinary effort to made sure I got my turbo in time.
I went with an unclipped "P" trim exhaust wheel this time thinking it might help low end power with the planned mild street port replacing the previous large street port.
Bryan included an oil feed restrictor as he noted my MFR oil pressure regulator was causing a slight leak at the rear turbo oil seal.
With a little drilling that fit into the new oil feed line I made up after losing the engine before last to a brand new stock oil feed line cracking.
Turns out the stock gasket is asbestos and must be used to stop the transfer of heat from turbo to oil feed flange- don't try to make your own gasket here...
I went ahead and o ringed the compressor housing since I had to reclock it and I had some viton o ring stock that fit.
08-14-09, 09:22 PM
#4
About that mild street port.
I used some nice side housings from a S5 J-spec and made a new template. I really went with as early opening port timing as I could and keep the trailing sideseal on the housing, but kept the closing timing very conservative as well as tried to keep the port runner volume small for higher velocity.
New template over old port.
On the rotor housings I used one third gen front housing and one S5 TII front housing as they were the ones with no chrome flaking. The rear housing seems to get more of a work out from being cooled second.
I did the spark plug water jacket mod and gave it a mild exhaust port. It opens earlier like before with a rounded bottom, but closes at the stock timing with just a squaring up of the top corners on the port.
New smaller port (right) next to old later closing one.
I was trying to improve low end and midrange as well as driveability. The old large street port came on very hard at 5,000rpm shocking the tires into spinning. Also, at 5,000rpm and up it didn't matter how little throttle you gave it the engine responded with full boost and power.
The new mild street port worked out great. It does feel a little less powerful up top, but it is so driveable. Give it part throttle and you get part boost/power all the way through the rev range.
It also idles steady at 800rpm now instead of 1,000rpm.
Combined with the unclipped turbine the boost jumps right into positive with a stab of the throttle on the freeway instead of hesitating for an instant at 0 manifold pressure.
I used some nice side housings from a S5 J-spec and made a new template. I really went with as early opening port timing as I could and keep the trailing sideseal on the housing, but kept the closing timing very conservative as well as tried to keep the port runner volume small for higher velocity.
New template over old port.
On the rotor housings I used one third gen front housing and one S5 TII front housing as they were the ones with no chrome flaking. The rear housing seems to get more of a work out from being cooled second.
I did the spark plug water jacket mod and gave it a mild exhaust port. It opens earlier like before with a rounded bottom, but closes at the stock timing with just a squaring up of the top corners on the port.
New smaller port (right) next to old later closing one.
I was trying to improve low end and midrange as well as driveability. The old large street port came on very hard at 5,000rpm shocking the tires into spinning. Also, at 5,000rpm and up it didn't matter how little throttle you gave it the engine responded with full boost and power.
The new mild street port worked out great. It does feel a little less powerful up top, but it is so driveable. Give it part throttle and you get part boost/power all the way through the rev range.
It also idles steady at 800rpm now instead of 1,000rpm.
Combined with the unclipped turbine the boost jumps right into positive with a stab of the throttle on the freeway instead of hesitating for an instant at 0 manifold pressure.
08-14-09, 09:33 PM
#5
I used some S4 low comp rotors milled out to 3mm apex seals and used factory 3mm steel apex seals. I took .006" off the tips of the rotors to keep them off the side housings at high rpm since I noted contact on all of my rotor tips S4 and S5.
I also lowered the rev limit to 8,000rpm and am not temped to raise it since the small ports start dropping off before that as well. Make it less rewarding to thrash on it and maybe it will last longer?
I also lowered the rev limit to 8,000rpm and am not temped to raise it since the small ports start dropping off before that as well. Make it less rewarding to thrash on it and maybe it will last longer?
08-14-09, 10:03 PM
#7
Took it to the local street legal drags and best 1/4 mile ET I ran was a 13.09. Best MPH started at 110 and worked up to 112.75.
I am terrible at this drag racing thing, so it wasn't showing the potential of the car.
Luckily, it was "diesel day" drags Saturday and they were having a little dyno competition on Sunday. After my Auto-X friend with an awesome supercharged mustang told me he dynoed there last year, I asked really nicely and gave them money and they grudgingly let me do my 3 pulls after all the trucks were done.
Only after the pulls did I get a handshake and some respect from the dyno operator.
They had NO FAN whatsoever on the portable Dynojet, so I was definitely keeping an eye on the temps via the laptop.
They hooked me up with an inductive ignition pick up and we got it reading proper rpm, but the reading went haywire during the pulls so i have no torque or rpm readings
.
12psi boost, 4th gear from just before 2,000rpm to 8,000rpm rev limit. You can see on my 1st run I backed off the throttle before the rev limit- doh.
My Innovate wideband showed AFRs in the low 10s and 9s on 1st run and then all 9s on the later runs where the air and coolant temps kept climbing )no fan on dyno).
I think I will see some good power when I get a dyno tuning session and lean it out as well as see how much boost I can run on race gas before it stops making power.
Look at the power at 3,000rpm (55mph). This set up is making good low end power as I hoped.
Even small responsive ball bearing turbos like RX-6 and T3 exhaust GT35R struggle to make over 100RWHP at 3,000rpm. The stock sequential twins do the best with 120-150RWHP at 3,000rpm depending on the mods/boost.
I am terrible at this drag racing thing, so it wasn't showing the potential of the car.
Luckily, it was "diesel day" drags Saturday and they were having a little dyno competition on Sunday. After my Auto-X friend with an awesome supercharged mustang told me he dynoed there last year, I asked really nicely and gave them money and they grudgingly let me do my 3 pulls after all the trucks were done.
Only after the pulls did I get a handshake and some respect from the dyno operator.
They had NO FAN whatsoever on the portable Dynojet, so I was definitely keeping an eye on the temps via the laptop.
They hooked me up with an inductive ignition pick up and we got it reading proper rpm, but the reading went haywire during the pulls so i have no torque or rpm readings
.12psi boost, 4th gear from just before 2,000rpm to 8,000rpm rev limit. You can see on my 1st run I backed off the throttle before the rev limit- doh.
My Innovate wideband showed AFRs in the low 10s and 9s on 1st run and then all 9s on the later runs where the air and coolant temps kept climbing )no fan on dyno).
I think I will see some good power when I get a dyno tuning session and lean it out as well as see how much boost I can run on race gas before it stops making power.
Look at the power at 3,000rpm (55mph). This set up is making good low end power as I hoped.
Even small responsive ball bearing turbos like RX-6 and T3 exhaust GT35R struggle to make over 100RWHP at 3,000rpm. The stock sequential twins do the best with 120-150RWHP at 3,000rpm depending on the mods/boost.
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08-15-09, 04:09 AM
#12
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Those are some awesome looking tires! And I thought daves tires were wide! Lol
I do believe that this is a step in the opposite direction from what I had figured you were going to go. If I had a 3rd gen that I promised to "leave stock" (haha how long did that last? =p) I'm pretty sure the t2 I had would become more of a monster. But really sounds like a nice setup for the hillclimb this year!
So when are you putting in a dyno in your garage? =p
I'm back in crescent city, so if you are ever up here let me know!
I do believe that this is a step in the opposite direction from what I had figured you were going to go. If I had a 3rd gen that I promised to "leave stock" (haha how long did that last? =p) I'm pretty sure the t2 I had would become more of a monster. But really sounds like a nice setup for the hillclimb this year!
So when are you putting in a dyno in your garage? =p
I'm back in crescent city, so if you are ever up here let me know!
08-18-09, 09:05 PM
#13
Very sweet build up Ian! I wish I could have made it out to see that thing at the last drags.
I won't be at the next street legals either as we are going to watch Formula D at Sears Point!
You can always come out to the Auto-Xs to see it and catch a REAL wild ride!
Speaking of Auto-X, it was sooo much better to race last weekend at Auto-x.
Although, it sprained the wrist of the experienced driver I let run it. It is soo easy now to get ahead of the steering with the responsive engine and the heavy stock manual rack with 255 wide front Dot R tires that he tweaked his wrist keeping it on line.
I just whacked some cones going off line when it got ahead of me... he paid the price in my car for his finely honed muscle memory
I am dreaming of putting in the RX-8 electric assist steering rack now or the electric/hydraulic MR2 unit that the experienced driver did for his tube frame supercharged 12a beast.
He said BLUE TII was intimidating to race (he normally jumps in anything offered that looks fun or fast enough). Crap, I am trying to make it easier to race.
I won't be at the next street legals either as we are going to watch Formula D at Sears Point!
You can always come out to the Auto-Xs to see it and catch a REAL wild ride!
Speaking of Auto-X, it was sooo much better to race last weekend at Auto-x.
Although, it sprained the wrist of the experienced driver I let run it. It is soo easy now to get ahead of the steering with the responsive engine and the heavy stock manual rack with 255 wide front Dot R tires that he tweaked his wrist keeping it on line.
I just whacked some cones going off line when it got ahead of me... he paid the price in my car for his finely honed muscle memory
I am dreaming of putting in the RX-8 electric assist steering rack now or the electric/hydraulic MR2 unit that the experienced driver did for his tube frame supercharged 12a beast.
He said BLUE TII was intimidating to race (he normally jumps in anything offered that looks fun or fast enough). Crap, I am trying to make it easier to race.
08-18-09, 09:29 PM
#14
Those are some awesome looking tires! And I thought daves tires were wide! Lol
I did too! He had 9" wide rim up front, which means his 255 was wider up there for him.
I do believe that this is a step in the opposite direction from what I had figured you were going to go. If I had a 3rd gen that I promised to "leave stock" (haha how long did that last? =p) I'm pretty sure the t2 I had would become more of a monster. But really sounds like a nice setup for the hillclimb this year!
Oh, you misunderstood "stock."
The FD is a "stock class" Auto-x car so I got to change a few things and stay in the "super stock" class.
But since I got the TII running it has been neglected in the garage, even on race days. BLUE TII is just so much more fun to drive/race and so much easier to work on not to mention the durability of the FC.
So when are you putting in a dyno in your garage? =p
I hadn't thought of that!
A dynapack would fit and it is what I want to be tuned on. My land lord lives next door, he might mind. If I clear it with him what are the legalities of doing dyno pulls with an open wastegate on private property in a residential neighborhood?
Time to sell the FD so I have room in the garage for a dyno! LOL
I'm back in crescent city, so if you are ever up here let me know!
Now you tell me! Dave and I did our initial tune session/ break in by driving up that way. PM me your cell and I will call if I head up there.
I did too! He had 9" wide rim up front, which means his 255 was wider up there for him.
I do believe that this is a step in the opposite direction from what I had figured you were going to go. If I had a 3rd gen that I promised to "leave stock" (haha how long did that last? =p) I'm pretty sure the t2 I had would become more of a monster. But really sounds like a nice setup for the hillclimb this year!
Oh, you misunderstood "stock."
The FD is a "stock class" Auto-x car so I got to change a few things and stay in the "super stock" class.But since I got the TII running it has been neglected in the garage, even on race days. BLUE TII is just so much more fun to drive/race and so much easier to work on not to mention the durability of the FC.
So when are you putting in a dyno in your garage? =p
I hadn't thought of that!
A dynapack would fit and it is what I want to be tuned on. My land lord lives next door, he might mind. If I clear it with him what are the legalities of doing dyno pulls with an open wastegate on private property in a residential neighborhood?
Time to sell the FD so I have room in the garage for a dyno! LOL
I'm back in crescent city, so if you are ever up here let me know!
Now you tell me! Dave and I did our initial tune session/ break in by driving up that way. PM me your cell and I will call if I head up there.
08-19-09, 01:37 AM
#16
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Dibs!!! But seriously, Park on the dyno?
Yeah, and Dave always was smuggling alcohol from Oregon! Have you introduced Blue TII to highway 199 yet?
08-19-09, 02:08 AM
#17
Dude, 199 was break-in tune like sooo 3 or 4 engines ago.
Seriously
That is where I drove over the giant rock that dented up the old JIC Spec 90 exhaust I used to have on it. I thought I could drive over it, it cleared the body but bounced down the exhaust.
That was right around the time I got interested in the Sylvania Silverstars you told me about. I am rockin those now.
Seriously
That is where I drove over the giant rock that dented up the old JIC Spec 90 exhaust I used to have on it. I thought I could drive over it, it cleared the body but bounced down the exhaust.
That was right around the time I got interested in the Sylvania Silverstars you told me about. I am rockin those now.
08-19-09, 02:15 AM
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Ouch! Poor exhaust...
(yeah, I was keeping the dave's seperate... Alcohol Smuggler was fc dave, fb dave is the one I remember seeing, but not talking to.)
Oh, and one other reason I didn't stop by the other day is cause:
While my wife is pretty lenient about letting me talk about cars for a while. When it turns into less general car talk and more Rx7 "geekiness" she can only handle a couple hours, and I'm not good at stopping talking once I get started... =p
(yeah, I was keeping the dave's seperate... Alcohol Smuggler was fc dave, fb dave is the one I remember seeing, but not talking to.)
Oh, and one other reason I didn't stop by the other day is cause:
While my wife is pretty lenient about letting me talk about cars for a while. When it turns into less general car talk and more Rx7 "geekiness" she can only handle a couple hours, and I'm not good at stopping talking once I get started... =p
08-19-09, 02:51 AM
#20
Engine 1- came in car.
Had a poorly done coolant seal fix done to it because all the hoses were full of Bars stop leak or something.
I didn't know what the crap was and replaced all the hoses with new and flushed the cooling system. the car got harder and harder to start and "used" coolant.
I had unknowingly flushed out all the stop leak and the coolant was leaking into the combustion chamber on shut down taking away all the lubrication and fouling the plugs.
It would start hot only with some oil in the spark plugs.
So I started it that way when I had to and killed it overboosting it with boost creep and improperly done mods.
When I took the engine apart the rotor housings and apex seals were very very worn. It might have been the original 140+ K motor in it.
Had a poorly done coolant seal fix done to it because all the hoses were full of Bars stop leak or something.
I didn't know what the crap was and replaced all the hoses with new and flushed the cooling system. the car got harder and harder to start and "used" coolant.
I had unknowingly flushed out all the stop leak and the coolant was leaking into the combustion chamber on shut down taking away all the lubrication and fouling the plugs.
It would start hot only with some oil in the spark plugs.
So I started it that way when I had to and killed it overboosting it with boost creep and improperly done mods.
When I took the engine apart the rotor housings and apex seals were very very worn. It might have been the original 140+ K motor in it.
08-19-09, 02:56 AM
#21
Engine 2-
Pineapple rebuild. Waited for a long time for the engine and that is what got me doing everything else to the engine bay that isn't "normal".
I cracked the rear plate on this motor only to find it was S4 unreinforced plate and I had asked for S5. It was probably detonation that killed this engine, as I found out later.
Pineapple rebuild. Waited for a long time for the engine and that is what got me doing everything else to the engine bay that isn't "normal".
I cracked the rear plate on this motor only to find it was S4 unreinforced plate and I had asked for S5. It was probably detonation that killed this engine, as I found out later.
08-19-09, 03:03 AM
#22
Replaced Walbro 255lph low pressure some RX-7 specialist shiester sold me with a Walbro high pressure pump and went on to
engine 3-
Pineapple repaired engine 2 under warranty with a S5 rear plate. I was tuning under load in 3rd on the freeway using the brakes to load the engine and ended up doing a brake stand at speed flat spotting the front tires horribly.
I rotated those tires to the back and tried to burn them off back to round as I wanted to Auto-x the next day.
Well, the prolonged burn outs with high egts and oil temps warped the soft Hurley? double spring 3mm seals Pineapple used because I didn't know enough to ignore what the Haltech manual said about light load tuning and tune the rotary rich at light load to lower egts for just such situations.
engine 3-
Pineapple repaired engine 2 under warranty with a S5 rear plate. I was tuning under load in 3rd on the freeway using the brakes to load the engine and ended up doing a brake stand at speed flat spotting the front tires horribly.
I rotated those tires to the back and tried to burn them off back to round as I wanted to Auto-x the next day.
Well, the prolonged burn outs with high egts and oil temps warped the soft Hurley? double spring 3mm seals Pineapple used because I didn't know enough to ignore what the Haltech manual said about light load tuning and tune the rotary rich at light load to lower egts for just such situations.
08-19-09, 03:12 AM
#23
Installed EGT guages for front and rear rotors in the turbo manifold, installed an oil temp guage.
Took apart Pineapple and decided to rebuild myself and learn more doing it.
Engine 4-
Rebuilt with all different parts than Pineapple except still used the rear plate as it was only S5 I had, just put a bevel at top of intake port.
Only had some Atkins? soft 2mm apex seals that came in a failed rebuild that I paid too much for.
Used them anyways and broke them about the first time I boosted after break in.
Took apart Pineapple and decided to rebuild myself and learn more doing it.
Engine 4-
Rebuilt with all different parts than Pineapple except still used the rear plate as it was only S5 I had, just put a bevel at top of intake port.
Only had some Atkins? soft 2mm apex seals that came in a failed rebuild that I paid too much for.
Used them anyways and broke them about the first time I boosted after break in.
08-19-09, 03:18 AM
#24
Engine 5-
Rebuilt that one quickly using all same parts but with the 3mm grooved rotors from the Pineapple and new Rotary Aviation original 3mm seals.
This one went for about 12,000 miles and 2 years of racing and daily driving before one of the EGT probes melted off and pinched a corner seal into its bore.
It would run and boost, but the boost was bouncy and I could not get the corner seal to free up.
Rebuilt that one quickly using all same parts but with the 3mm grooved rotors from the Pineapple and new Rotary Aviation original 3mm seals.
This one went for about 12,000 miles and 2 years of racing and daily driving before one of the EGT probes melted off and pinched a corner seal into its bore.
It would run and boost, but the boost was bouncy and I could not get the corner seal to free up.
08-19-09, 03:26 AM
#25
engine 6-
Rebuilt that one with all the same parts except S5 TII rotors and Rotary Aviation 2mm super seals.
Raced that one for a hillclimb and a good part of an Auto-X season before the front stationary gear indexing pin came out and got sucked up the oil pump. Replaced the pin/oil pump and kept going with it.
Next the turbo oil feed hard line began to leak. Replaced the oil line with brand new factory parts, but did not use factory gasket.
Cracked the new turbo oil feed line on a tuning session when turbo was really hot and apparently lost oil pressure as well as had a neat oil fire in engine bay.
Got it back together with cool new oil lines and the factory ASBESTOS gasket to block heat transfer (oh neat fact there) only to find it had lost oil pressure and spun a rotor bearing.
Rebuilt that one with all the same parts except S5 TII rotors and Rotary Aviation 2mm super seals.
Raced that one for a hillclimb and a good part of an Auto-X season before the front stationary gear indexing pin came out and got sucked up the oil pump. Replaced the pin/oil pump and kept going with it.
Next the turbo oil feed hard line began to leak. Replaced the oil line with brand new factory parts, but did not use factory gasket.
Cracked the new turbo oil feed line on a tuning session when turbo was really hot and apparently lost oil pressure as well as had a neat oil fire in engine bay.
Got it back together with cool new oil lines and the factory ASBESTOS gasket to block heat transfer (oh neat fact there) only to find it had lost oil pressure and spun a rotor bearing.