Bleeding Issues
10-08-17, 12:40 PM
#1
Bleeding Issues
Hi everyone,
I just recently picked up another FC. GXL (did not come with ABS). I'm close to swapping everything over from my previous FC. I took off the master cyclinder, brake booster, clutch slave, and clutch master cylinder. I bought a brand new clutch slave and clutch master cylinder and I had the booster and master cylinder rebuilt. I also bought russell speed bleeders for all 4 brakes. I'm using Motul Dot 5.1 brake fluid on all the systems. I'm having the following issues
I just recently picked up another FC. GXL (did not come with ABS). I'm close to swapping everything over from my previous FC. I took off the master cyclinder, brake booster, clutch slave, and clutch master cylinder. I bought a brand new clutch slave and clutch master cylinder and I had the booster and master cylinder rebuilt. I also bought russell speed bleeders for all 4 brakes. I'm using Motul Dot 5.1 brake fluid on all the systems. I'm having the following issues
- I started bleeding the brakes in the order I saw on a previously posted thread (Rear Left, Rear Right, Front Left, Front Right). The issue i'm having with the brakes is that i've bled the rear brakes with no issues (except dirty fluid coming out). But when i get to to the front brakes I can't get fluid to come out of the bleeder. The reservoir doesn't go down even if I have the bleeder open. I had no issue with the rear brakes.
- For the clutch the pedal just seems really off. It doesn't bounce back into position like it normally should. I do hear a click when it's in neutral (granted the pedal stopper rubber piece is not there since it dried up and broke into pieces). I am using a Racing Beat SS Clutch line. It just doesn't seem springy when I press the clutch in. I feel light pressure when I'm pressing it in and no resistance wanting to come back to it's normal position.
10-08-17, 01:13 PM
#3
Not I did not bench bleed the master cylinder. I did open up the lines yesterday connecting to the brake master cylinder to see if fluid came out. Fluid came out from all three lines and closed the lines. I did see bubbles surface to the top of the reservoir.
10-08-17, 01:25 PM
#4
Full Member
It sounds like air in the system to me, before going further I'd download the service manual and follow the procedure for bench bleeding both the cylinders.
Its important to work methodically through the system, so start at the master cylinder and make sure that there isn't an airlock there. Once that's taken care of it should just be a case of slowly pumping the brake pedal whilst ensuring the reservoir is kept topped up.
Its important to work methodically through the system, so start at the master cylinder and make sure that there isn't an airlock there. Once that's taken care of it should just be a case of slowly pumping the brake pedal whilst ensuring the reservoir is kept topped up.
10-08-17, 04:09 PM
#5
Rotary Enthusiast
I typically use a Mityvac Vacuum Pump when I bleed my brake or clutch hydraulics. Once the whole system has been exposed to air, it can take awhile to get all the air out. I never bench bleed my brake master cylinders. Just keep working your system.
10-08-17, 09:08 PM
#6
Update: so I got the brakes to bleed from all four calipers. I got all the air out, thought I still see dirty fluid I'll keep cycling fresh fluid until i see gold all around. What I am experiencing is that the rear brake pads are making contact with the rear rotors without the e brake being engaged or the brake pedal being pressed. It takes a good effort to rotate the rotor.
As for the clutch pedal do you guys recommend that I keep bleeding the system until I feel better resistance from the pedal?
As for the clutch pedal do you guys recommend that I keep bleeding the system until I feel better resistance from the pedal?
10-08-17, 10:28 PM
#7
Sucker for Punishment
Get someone to pump the clutch by hand... it will take a while. Pump it 4-5 times and then get them to fully depress it and hold. It will seem like you're doing nothing but if you have a clear hose connected to the bleeder nipple you will indeed see that you are getting rid of some air. It won't be much. Im sure you know not to release the clutch pedal before bleeder is tightened.
It will take a while. It can be tiring on the guy inside the car pumping by hand lol. You'll eventually get it to bleed and the pedal will eventually spring back up on its own and you'll be able to use your foot like you would bleeding brakes.
If you're not seeing any movement in the hose then I would suspect that your bleeder is clogged and has to be removed, cleaned and reinstalled.
It will take a while. It can be tiring on the guy inside the car pumping by hand lol. You'll eventually get it to bleed and the pedal will eventually spring back up on its own and you'll be able to use your foot like you would bleeding brakes.
If you're not seeing any movement in the hose then I would suspect that your bleeder is clogged and has to be removed, cleaned and reinstalled.
Last edited by Rotary Alkymist; 10-08-17 at 10:33 PM.
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10-09-17, 12:34 AM
#8
Full Member
Update: so I got the brakes to bleed from all four calipers. I got all the air out, thought I still see dirty fluid I'll keep cycling fresh fluid until i see gold all around. What I am experiencing is that the rear brake pads are making contact with the rear rotors without the e brake being engaged or the brake pedal being pressed. It takes a good effort to rotate the rotor.
If the spring and lever on the calliper is rusty then that could prevent it disengaging as well.
Remember these cars are 30 years old so its likely that most components in the system will be old and worn. Was there much in the way of corossion on the piston when you wound it in to fit the new pads?
10-09-17, 07:21 AM
#9
Full Member
When bleeding the clutch have someone pump the pedal a few times and hold. Then open the bleeder screw and close. Then have helper pump the clutch up and down a few times again and hold while you bleed and close again and repeat. If you do not see clear fluid after a couple times then something isn't right.
I just replaced both my master and slave about a month ago. Before I did though I would try and bleed the clutch and just see bubbles and it never was clear fluid coming out. The clutch would get a little better for a little while and then not come off the floor again. It was leaking quite a bit as well as I was adding to it every other time I drove it.
I just replaced both my master and slave about a month ago. Before I did though I would try and bleed the clutch and just see bubbles and it never was clear fluid coming out. The clutch would get a little better for a little while and then not come off the floor again. It was leaking quite a bit as well as I was adding to it every other time I drove it.
10-09-17, 10:40 AM
#10
First check to make sure that the hand brake cables aren't sticking and still enging the mechanism on the rear callipers.
If the spring and lever on the calliper is rusty then that could prevent it disengaging as well.
Remember these cars are 30 years old so its likely that most components in the system will be old and worn. Was there much in the way of corossion on the piston when you wound it in to fit the new pads?
If the spring and lever on the calliper is rusty then that could prevent it disengaging as well.
Remember these cars are 30 years old so its likely that most components in the system will be old and worn. Was there much in the way of corossion on the piston when you wound it in to fit the new pads?
10-09-17, 10:43 AM
#11
Get someone to pump the clutch by hand... it will take a while. Pump it 4-5 times and then get them to fully depress it and hold. It will seem like you're doing nothing but if you have a clear hose connected to the bleeder nipple you will indeed see that you are getting rid of some air. It won't be much. Im sure you know not to release the clutch pedal before bleeder is tightened.
It will take a while. It can be tiring on the guy inside the car pumping by hand lol. You'll eventually get it to bleed and the pedal will eventually spring back up on its own and you'll be able to use your foot like you would bleeding brakes.
If you're not seeing any movement in the hose then I would suspect that your bleeder is clogged and has to be removed, cleaned and reinstalled.
It will take a while. It can be tiring on the guy inside the car pumping by hand lol. You'll eventually get it to bleed and the pedal will eventually spring back up on its own and you'll be able to use your foot like you would bleeding brakes.
If you're not seeing any movement in the hose then I would suspect that your bleeder is clogged and has to be removed, cleaned and reinstalled.
10-10-17, 09:13 AM
#13
Full Member
I'd reccomend buying some new square seals and the dust boots, wind out the piston, if the corossion is very bad you may have to replace it. If its not too bad you might get away with blitzing off the corrosion with a brass wire wheel in a drill and then replace the seals.
The other option would be to buy a couple of reconditioned callipers, and sometimes when brakes are this old and cruddy its the best option, they aren't that expensive and you're basically getting a fully rebuilt caliper that should be problem free for as long as you own the car.
10-10-17, 11:43 AM
#14
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Perhaps you're aware, but thought I'd repeat a point....
You may need to rotate the rear calipers (the piston) in order to get it to go back to the original, compressed position. This may explain why the brakes are tight to the rotor. I forget the direction, whether clock-wise or counter clock-wise, required in order to get them to compress. I don't know the in's and out's of all the different models and whether your brakes operate this way, but this may be worth checking to see if it resolves this point.
You may need to rotate the rear calipers (the piston) in order to get it to go back to the original, compressed position. This may explain why the brakes are tight to the rotor. I forget the direction, whether clock-wise or counter clock-wise, required in order to get them to compress. I don't know the in's and out's of all the different models and whether your brakes operate this way, but this may be worth checking to see if it resolves this point.
10-11-17, 05:43 AM
#15
Its time to service the caliper brackets and pins. If you have a mushy pedal and the hubs are hard to turn by hand then there's a good chance that the brake pads are seizing in the bracket. Remove the brackets, remove the pads, remove the fitting kit from the brackets. Clean the mounting points for the fit kit until they are free of rust and corrosion. Do the same for the fit kit as well. Service the slide pins and ensure they are clean, rust free, greased properly and move properly. Ensure the pads are clean and rust free on their contact points with the fit kit. Apply a small amount of grease to the fit kit where the pads slide. Reassemble and all should be well and the pedal should feel better and the hubs should turn more freely.