Big Mystery with engine problem (searched)
03-26-05, 07:19 PM
#1
Big Mystery with engine problem (searched)
Hey, heres the story after I replaced my clutch and put everything togeather and bought a new negative ground cable (all metal one) and hooked it up to the frame. So when I hooked up everything and cranked the car it was cranking fast. So I thought it would be flooded. I did the unflooding trick pulled the EGI fuse and took out the spark plugs and put the gas pedal to the flood and cranked again a lot of white mist came out and the apex seals are still good since I hear the (swoosh) after the unflooding I put the spark plugs back in and tryed and crank the car again. But after awhile I started seeing smoke in the engine bay it was the ground wire that was suppose to be on the transmission to the firewall, but the bolt broke off so I just hooked it up to the engine and the ground cable got roasted, after a short period of time of cranking the car. After this happened I hooked up a new wire from the fire wall and put it between the tranny bolt and the tranny instead to the engine and it still got roasted kinda (cranking the car). After this happened I tryed to push start my car with a couple people and the car would not start up. But when I was cranking the car I did hear a bubbly sound from the exhaust manifold. So I unflooded it again and tryed to crank the car again still doesn't start up. I have spark, fuel since it was flooded before, air flow meter is hooked up. Any one with any ideas why my car isn't starting up? Tryed push starting it nothing happened.
Oh and another thing does anyone know why my engine is cranking fast? or is it suppose to be like that?
Oh and another thing does anyone know why my engine is cranking fast? or is it suppose to be like that?
Last edited by 2slow4stock; 03-26-05 at 07:26 PM.
03-27-05, 12:42 AM
#6
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I had a similar problem after i installed my engine. The negative cable needs to ground to the Chassis and the engine block.
Is the engine cranking fast like you have no compression? Might want to do a compression check to make sure the seals are all good. Next you can use a timing light to verify spark is present. If not, you might need to change the plugs or wires. (Thats after you check the fuses of course) Sounds like you have fuel, but not spark.
Is the engine cranking fast like you have no compression? Might want to do a compression check to make sure the seals are all good. Next you can use a timing light to verify spark is present. If not, you might need to change the plugs or wires. (Thats after you check the fuses of course) Sounds like you have fuel, but not spark.
03-27-05, 06:47 AM
#7
King of the Loop
Originally Posted by Project84
I had a similar problem after i installed my engine. The negative cable needs to ground to the Chassis and the engine block.
Is the engine cranking fast like you have no compression? Might want to do a compression check to make sure the seals are all good. Next you can use a timing light to verify spark is present. If not, you might need to change the plugs or wires. (Thats after you check the fuses of course) Sounds like you have fuel, but not spark.
Is the engine cranking fast like you have no compression? Might want to do a compression check to make sure the seals are all good. Next you can use a timing light to verify spark is present. If not, you might need to change the plugs or wires. (Thats after you check the fuses of course) Sounds like you have fuel, but not spark.
Cranking fast means you have bad compression?
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03-27-05, 08:59 AM
#8
Doin a rebuild.
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it is ground
Originally Posted by BklynRX7
Cranking fast means you have bad compression?
Your ground burning is more of a problem than your flooded compression. Like above mentioned, make sure you hooked up the negative on the starter right.... it sounds like it is getting all of its power from the new ground you put there which is taking away from whatever spark power you might have.
So check starter ground. Make sure you have ground hooked up on slave cylinder, make sure you have the other ground hooked up that you remove when you take the tranny.
03-27-05, 01:07 PM
#9
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If that little ground wire is burning up, it means you have a direct connection to the positive terminal of the battery. It's going through the little ground, which can't handle the current and is burning up. For some reason, the current that's going through the motor is going through that little ground wire. I say re-check your new grounding with a continuity checker. Make sure you're not shorting anything out that shouldn't be.
03-30-05, 04:19 PM
#10
Well the car still isn't starting I am getting fuel since my fuel gage keeps getting lower and lower everytime I try to start the car everynow and then. I'm getting spark still. But when I take the trailing spark plug from the front rotor it sounds like it is cranking at normal speed. So what do you guys think? does towing the car in 30 and poping the clutch in 2nd really work now rex? Oh yah another thing is I put two cycle oil in both the trailing spark plug housing and still spinning fast. Any ideas anyone?
03-30-05, 04:35 PM
#11
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You guys are all missing the "big picture"- If you're toasting the tranny-to-firewall ground while cranking, then the main ground cable is NOT connected properly to the engine (wherever you want to attach it, either under the top nut for the upper starter bolt, or under the upper bolt head at the rear housing).
Either that, or you do have it attached at the starter body, but your tranny-to-rear housing contact surfaces are so dirty that no conductivity exists...
Either that, or you do have it attached at the starter body, but your tranny-to-rear housing contact surfaces are so dirty that no conductivity exists...
03-31-05, 01:13 AM
#13
Originally Posted by WAYNE88N/A
You guys are all missing the "big picture"- If you're toasting the tranny-to-firewall ground while cranking, then the main ground cable is NOT connected properly to the engine (wherever you want to attach it, either under the top nut for the upper starter bolt, or under the upper bolt head at the rear housing).
Either that, or you do have it attached at the starter body, but your tranny-to-rear housing contact surfaces are so dirty that no conductivity exists...
Either that, or you do have it attached at the starter body, but your tranny-to-rear housing contact surfaces are so dirty that no conductivity exists...
i guess i'm not one of the guys...
03-31-05, 01:18 AM
#14
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I am going to reiterate what the others have been saying. In your original post you said that you attatched the new negative ground cable to the frame. If this is the cable coming from the battery, then you need to attatch it directly to one of the transmission bolts instead. Also the transmission to firewall ground must be good as well for engine electronics to work properly. If the ground system is not wired properly it will cause all sorts of problems, including burned out ground wires.
03-31-05, 02:00 AM
#15
actually the best points to ground the engine is 1) at the rear rotor housing and 2) at the starter being sure that the bolt/nut/starter/transmission/iron are clean of oil and dirt where it mounts.
electrons passing through a small diameter ground cable will cause it to get hot, it doesn't have to be positively charged, where a lot of people make the wrong assumption that the wiring is backwards.
regrounding the way you may have could have fixed the starter issue but not addressed the engine wiring harness (ECU ground) issue(the ECU ground is located on the rear rotor housing). bad ECU grounding can cause multiple drivability issues including: no spark or erratic spark, no fuel pulse at injectors, more defined 3800RPM bucking, erratic idle and several variations of each.
electrons passing through a small diameter ground cable will cause it to get hot, it doesn't have to be positively charged, where a lot of people make the wrong assumption that the wiring is backwards.
regrounding the way you may have could have fixed the starter issue but not addressed the engine wiring harness (ECU ground) issue(the ECU ground is located on the rear rotor housing). bad ECU grounding can cause multiple drivability issues including: no spark or erratic spark, no fuel pulse at injectors, more defined 3800RPM bucking, erratic idle and several variations of each.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 03-31-05 at 02:10 AM.
03-31-05, 02:17 AM
#16
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Okay if i might ask a very stupid question. But are you sure you connected the new wire to the negative side of the battery? A wire only only burn if you short it. So maybe there is a short in the wire or the wire is conneted wrong? Just a thought.....
03-31-05, 01:24 PM
#17
Originally Posted by twistedriver
Okay if i might ask a very stupid question. But are you sure you connected the new wire to the negative side of the battery? A wire only only burn if you short it. So maybe there is a short in the wire or the wire is conneted wrong? Just a thought.....
do people not read? too many misconceptions out there....
03-31-05, 01:47 PM
#18
No, I just rewrapped the orginal negative cable since it was ripped near the end and cleaned off the end of it and hooked it up to the front trannyer near the rear rotor. and Hooked that one up to the frame and have the new ground from the negative battery to the frame also. So basicly it's to the frame already and grounded to the engine. But now I gotta put a new wire from tranny to firewall again. :'( But about the engine i'm cranking the car and it's sounds like it is spinning fast. But when I take the front trailing spark plug it sounds like it back at normal speed, why? I wanna get this car up and running any ideas? I'll put a new wire and see if this one is going to roast up again.
And no the new ground is on the negative side.
And no the new ground is on the negative side.
03-31-05, 02:49 PM
#19
If the car has low compression what should I use engine oil (10w-30), 2 cycle oil, or Automatic tranmission fluid to build the compression up? Since I am kinda thinking it might be on low compression and I don't have the money for a new engine. If you can get back to me asap that would be helpful.
03-31-05, 03:40 PM
#20
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by MasteRX
Also the transmission to firewall ground must be good as well for engine electronics to work properly.
2slow- there's not much you can do for a tired engine with low compression, other than a rebuild...
03-31-05, 08:04 PM
#22
Nevermind, I've gotten the car to catch for about 1 second because I pulled both the spark plugs and egi fuse and fitteled with the car for about 30 minutes then put it back and cranked and it was catching then started the normal fast sounding speed again. Does anyone thing tow starting it will work?
03-31-05, 08:29 PM
#24
The apex seals are still good just to let you guys know. Well if this doesn't work then Anyone interested in some parts out of a 1989 GXL if it's not starting? lol but the tranny-to-firewall was dude to the negative battery not hooking up to the engine so remember ground the I3itch down. I'll repost if my car is or is not running after I try and tow start it.
03-31-05, 09:07 PM
#25
Bear with me on this one, I'm trying to understand something here.
If the engine is spining at a normal starting speed with the plugs out, yet spinning faster with them in, when there is more compression and resistance to rotation, wouldn't this imply that combustion is trying to or partially occuring? Just not successfully.
If the car was staring normally before the wiring problem, it should start the same after that problem was addressed. Since it is not, what has changed? The wiring issue didn't magically weaken or wear out his seals.
In my opinion, fwiw, it sounds like the normal hard start, flooded problem, and should be approached from that direction.
If the engine is spining at a normal starting speed with the plugs out, yet spinning faster with them in, when there is more compression and resistance to rotation, wouldn't this imply that combustion is trying to or partially occuring? Just not successfully.
If the car was staring normally before the wiring problem, it should start the same after that problem was addressed. Since it is not, what has changed? The wiring issue didn't magically weaken or wear out his seals.
In my opinion, fwiw, it sounds like the normal hard start, flooded problem, and should be approached from that direction.