Rotary Dawg

Word of advice (part 2). Save more money by just buying plain rotors. You don't need the cross-drilled/slotted ones, and believe me, if you have seen what I have seen, you wouldn't want them. Cracked Porsche cross-drilled rotors are quite a revelation...

OC_

O! i just dont to parking lot autoX, the autoX's i do take place at big tracks. and the practice sessions before the event are pretty much wheel to wheel. I got some 'aggressive' street pads now. Rotex is the brand, they seem to work pretty damn good. Cost $75 for a pair of fronts.


click that link on in my sig, scroll down to the black mustang at the bottom of the page and look at the front brakes. this is typical.

RETed

It's dead stock right now.&nbsp (The FC is right behind it.)

http://www2.hawaii.edu/~koseki



-Ted

RETed

What you're describing is not typically called an "autocross".
I define autocross as single runs with speeds typically maxing at 60mph.

We used to run the K2RD cars 100mph+ into a diving turn (i.e. Laguna Seca T2 and Thunderhill T1) which I doubt you would see even in your "autoX".


-Ted

avrfan

Lots of suggestions here on the forum for best braking.
I didn't really read carefully what the original poster wanted to acheive but I think overall just more braking power and performance. I don't know what your budget constraints are...

I see lots of differing of opinions on caliper rotor type and ss lines...

Here are some of my ideas, I'm not too scientific but here goes...

a) If you are looking to fit bigger diam. rotors, I found a guys website who machines his own custom rotor hats from T6061 aluminum to mount bigger vented/cross drilled rotors like 15" or something like that on to his 2nd gen. The rotors were made by wilwood or brembo or something. Email me and I'll send you the link.

b) I once seen an add for these rotors where where like some alternative material like ceramic/aluminum composite metal which was much lighter than steel(less unsprung weight) and much better heat dissipation an tolerance. They were slotted and not crossdrilled. I don't remember the name but said they were used on some top of the line porsche's.

If you money is not a limit, I think they use carbon fiber composite rotors on Formula 1 cars but I think downside is they have to be heated up very well before they get max braking power. When theyre cold I think they hardly work.

c) Most everyone in racing uses SS lines no dispute about the benefits here. Less flex, better heat dissipation = better brake feel and less heat fade.

good luck.
Dave

OC_

why are you so quick to make a statement like this?

i dont understand why anyone would say something like this unless their trying to start something.


anyway, the tracks i race at are mostly Black hawk farms and Gingerman raceway. Every now and then we might hit Road America for a special event. And talk about a brake test, comming off the huge strights at RA is do or die time for your brakes. Turn 5 is a killer!

i guess what i do could be called SoloII, but its the same thing as AutoX...

http://www.blackhawkfarms.com

http://www.gingermanraceway.com (photos at the bottom)

http://www.roadamerica.com Longest/fastest track in the U.S? 4 miles long.

RETed

Why don't you read the SCCA rule book first.
Hell, since I'm feeling nice, this is a quote off the SCCA website.
The term "autocross" imples SCCA rules.&nbsp "SoloII" is specific to SCCA.

"Solo II is the SCCA brand name for autocross competition. Solo II events are driving skill contests that emphasize the driver's ability and the car's handling characteristics. This is accomplished by driving a course that is designated by traffic cones on a low hazard location, such as a parking lot or inactive airstrip. While speeds are no greater than those normally encountered in legal highway driving, the combination of concentration and car feedback creates an adrenaline pumping experience. It is like being in a movie chase scene, only you are holding onto the steering wheel instead of a box of popcorn!"

http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/index.html

Unless you live in Montana, "legal highway driving" is typically under 75mph.

I realize there are some regions where they do run higher max speeds, but this is an exception than the rule.&nbsp Most SCCA autocross courses are under 60mph, and average 20mph - 40mph track speeds.&nbsp If you're running over 100mph, that's way too damn fast.&nbsp if you're running wheel-to-wheel in a *SOLO* event, that's downright illegal and dangerous.

That just points out your ignorance of the terms you are using.&nbsp This doesn't even address the fact that you're misinformed when it comes to big brake upgrades.



-Ted

jon88se

the stock brakes are more than adequate...the problem is most stock equipment on our braking systemsare probably tired after long years and a lot of mileage. I bought new stock rotors and calipers (nice and cheap from one of our suppliers) with hawk pads and stainless lines. for the hell of it I drained the system and filled it with some blue race fluid we use in our ITS BMW 325...hey, at least I know the fluid is fresh so far I haven't been able to fade the pads (lots of 100-60-100 braking). they bite real well albeit a bit sluggish when the car stops the first few times in cold weather...and brake feel is fantastic, not overly sensitive (like a lotta new cars) but solid and very responsive. also, this is a 4-lug suspension...I've really surprised a number of friends w/ how strong the system feels and all it really is are lines, quality performance pads and fresh healthy components.

OC_

Someone like you is never wrong in their minds. You are not an authority on this subject, nor are you correct about everthing. And dont be so cocky, no one likes people that are like that. With almost 6000 posts you should know better to get in a flame war.

i dont know if you can say AutoX implies SCCA rules anymore since the Midwestern Council keeps getting bigger.

ill admit that i might not know everything there is about brakes, but either do you.

But i do see what the guys that win use. And iv never personally seen a serious road race car with with calipers that have sliders.

As for SCCA rules for autoX. i dont know anything about them since iv never run with them before. Iv always run with the Midwestern Council.

heres the rules.

http://www.nsscc.com/pdf/00gcrax.pdf

track rules are:
durring practice: no passing other then strights.
no speed limits, so you better be with compariable speed cars.

durring timed runs there is no passing at all, unless someone has gone off track or so forth...

You take more wear and tear durring the practice session since your out they going full blast for so long.

and it turns out someone makes a spacer to place the caliper farther out to fit a bigger rotor! go figure!


btw, Montana has a state set maximum speed limit now.
its 75mph.

Rotary Dawg

Hey Ted, why don't you try to cool down for a bit? You seem to be constantly rebutting other people with harsh words! Just chill. We all know you're knowledgable on the subject matter, there's no need to insult people who don't seem to know as much as you do.

maxcooper

AutoX in the popular lingo is a Solo II style event, which means a tight, low-speed course marked by cones on a parking lot or air strip. If you asked 1000 motorsports enthusiasts around the United States, this is what 999 or 1000 would tell you. It is quite reasonable to assume this kind of course when you hear "AutoX" used to describe it. Insulting someone isn't a nice thing to do, but I think the assumption behind the comment was quite reasonable.

Open track events, time trials, or Solo I are names that people will recognize as being run on tracks at higher speeds. You JSCC guys might pick up more chicks or at least be able to communicate better with the rest of us if you started calling those open track events or time trials (assuming you do individual timed laps at the end). (no flame intended)

-Max

Silkworm

As Max said, OC, you do Solo I or Open tracking, not autox aka Solo II.

Here's the deal. 4 piston brakes, with appropriate pads, will overpower the standard 225/50/15 tires we run in road racing, I can lock up the brakes, pretty much at will.

What does this mean? It means that my brakes, generate enough stopping force, to cause my tires to lose grip on the road and begin sliding.

Bigger rotors/More stopping power will not help me brake any shorter of a distance then they do now. Why? I can already generate more braking force than my tires can handle. All those things will do is help me generate maximum braking forces sooner with less pedal effort (which isn't all that much as it stands now).

So the key here is your tires. If you can generate enough braking grip, easily, to overpower your tires, adding more brake isn't going to help you. You need to get more tire grip first.

As to sliding/fixed calipers, the 2002 SCCA Improved Touring S champion, running in his 86 RX-7, runs 4 lug rotors and the smaller 9" brakes with sliding single piston calipers. Not saying that there aren't valid reasons for wanting fixed calipers, but it's not a *requirement*

Regards,

PaulC

RETed

I find myself a better authority on this subject matter than what you've posted so far (in this thread).&nbsp I'm sorry you corrolate "high" post counts to expertise.


I was involved in SCCA Solo II racing probably before you started driving, back 10+ years.&nbsp Although Hawaii is not the hot bed of Solo II competition, their autocrosses have always been very close to how the SCCA sets up their National run-offs, if not as elaborate.&nbsp I'm sorry you feel a growing membership base gives a regional group more authority over other groups.

I never said I was the end-all authority on brakes.&nbsp I've posted my counter argument to your remarks.&nbsp Other, well-respected (In my book) members have supported my remarks.&nbsp You seem to still NOT have admitted you were wrong.&nbsp You have a problem admitting you were wrong?&nbsp Stop trying to make me out more than what I really am.&nbsp I think I can safely state that I know more about the stock FC3S (4-piston fronts) brakes and their limits than you do, period.&nbsp Don't try to read more into it.

I dunno what this is for.&nbsp I never made a remark that they were NOT adequate.&nbsp My only remark on this particular area was that Baer insists on using floating pistons.&nbsp Go argue with them on this matter.

Okay, now I'm thoroughly confused.&nbsp Do I read this right?&nbsp You are arguing about SCCA rules, yet you've never run in an SCCA sanctioned Solo II event...ever?&nbsp Then why the #$(* do you mention "Solo II"???

I'm sorry you have a problem with me.&nbsp I'm sorry you have a problem with me correcting you.&nbsp I'm sorry you have a problem trying to carry on a logical debate - how old are you, BTW?&nbsp Screw it - why are you so caught up with me and my remarks?&nbsp Just ignore me and do what you want...it's obvious this is getting no where.


-Ted

Silkworm

Oh, just to clarify, that was the 2002 San Francisco region ITS champion