Banzai Racing Poly Motor Mounts
08-09-04, 08:27 AM
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Banzai Racing Poly Motor Mounts
With the rebuild I put in a set of Banzai Racing Polyeurethane Motor Mounts. Now that the car is finally running, I can give my opinion of them!!!
Well, I think they friggin ROCK!!!!
What they are is a big cylinder of red polyeurethane sandwiched between two pieces of steel. The top plate being very thick and looks to be stamped into a "cap" like the top piece of the stock motor mounts (but its a solid dome, it has no "windows" like the stock mounts). They also differ from the stock mounts in that the mounting bolt runs completely though the mount and threads into the to plate. You put the bolt up through the bottom of the subframe, slide the mount down over the bolt in the engine bay, then crank the bolt down until it stops and you are at the stiffest position. the motor is held to the mounts by a keeper nut and lock washers. The keeper nut also acts as a stop to keep the through bolt from working loose from its desired position.
The motor is rock solid, shifting is great....haven't missed the shift to third yet (i have the mazdatrix comp side tranny mounts was well), car seems to wind up quicker, neither motor nor shifter shakes around at idle. Altenator doesn't hit the strut bar when i launch. And the car seems to feel more like a sports car, you hit the gas, the car snaps to very quickly, make the head snap back a bit more!. Makes it a whole different car!
They were really easy to mount because they are the same dimensions as stock and the directions were straightforward and to the point. They are adjustable for stiffness and that adjustment is a fairly simple process of loosening the top nut and then backing the through bolt out a bit. And Shris Sanders, Banzai Pres., is "Johnny on the spot" in answering any tech questions you have.
Now for the bad stuff (and this realy isn't BAD stuff, I fully expected it, however, some people might be put off by it.)
Vibration... You KNOW that you have very stiff mounts, there is a great deal of vibration transferred to the cabin. When the apex seals were setting up and the engine was idling rough right after it first fired up, I thought I was going to have to pull it out, the motor mounts made the bad idle seem ten times worse that it was. But after the seals set and the motor smoothed out, its much better, but it still takes some getting used to over the stock mounts. I had the Mazdatrix competition motor mounts before and these are an order of magnitude stiffer and transfer that much more vibration. If you go from stock mounts to these, you are going to think that you have a washing machine with rocks in it under your hood for a while!!!
Noise... because the mounts transfer more vibration, you will hear all sorts of new sounds you never heard before. As i rev the motor, you can feel and hear a growl from the car in response to the transmitted vibration. Ths effect was much more pronounced when the car was still in the air on stands, now that its on the ground, its still there, but the tires damped the effect a bit.
Less forgiving, letting the clutch out too quckly while just putting about can result in some voilent jitters and scare the hell out of you, especially if you are eyeballing some chick on the sidewalk while cruizing up to a stop light and let the clutch out in too high a gear.... that produces all kinds of jerks, rattles and complaints from the car and makes you look quite un-cool!!
That being said, I should say that I have the mounts in the full tight position as that is what Chris reccomends for the break-in period. All the above mentioned vibration and noise may lessen if i loosen the mounts up a bit.
SO... What's the lowdown.. These Mounts are AWESOME if you really want to get the most performance out of your car. They will tighten it up and take your car one step closer to being a street legal race car! They'll stop that annoying 3rd into 5th skip and they'll add some zip to your hoopty!! They are for those who want the best performance out of their cars and can deal with a little added vibration and noise. However, if you want a cushy ride and are really into your harpsichord concierto's on your stereo, these may not be for you!
I give them the big Creeping Death too much metal for one hand, 2 devil horns up!!!!!
Well, I think they friggin ROCK!!!!
What they are is a big cylinder of red polyeurethane sandwiched between two pieces of steel. The top plate being very thick and looks to be stamped into a "cap" like the top piece of the stock motor mounts (but its a solid dome, it has no "windows" like the stock mounts). They also differ from the stock mounts in that the mounting bolt runs completely though the mount and threads into the to plate. You put the bolt up through the bottom of the subframe, slide the mount down over the bolt in the engine bay, then crank the bolt down until it stops and you are at the stiffest position. the motor is held to the mounts by a keeper nut and lock washers. The keeper nut also acts as a stop to keep the through bolt from working loose from its desired position.
The motor is rock solid, shifting is great....haven't missed the shift to third yet (i have the mazdatrix comp side tranny mounts was well), car seems to wind up quicker, neither motor nor shifter shakes around at idle. Altenator doesn't hit the strut bar when i launch. And the car seems to feel more like a sports car, you hit the gas, the car snaps to very quickly, make the head snap back a bit more!. Makes it a whole different car!
They were really easy to mount because they are the same dimensions as stock and the directions were straightforward and to the point. They are adjustable for stiffness and that adjustment is a fairly simple process of loosening the top nut and then backing the through bolt out a bit. And Shris Sanders, Banzai Pres., is "Johnny on the spot" in answering any tech questions you have.
Now for the bad stuff (and this realy isn't BAD stuff, I fully expected it, however, some people might be put off by it.)
Vibration... You KNOW that you have very stiff mounts, there is a great deal of vibration transferred to the cabin. When the apex seals were setting up and the engine was idling rough right after it first fired up, I thought I was going to have to pull it out, the motor mounts made the bad idle seem ten times worse that it was. But after the seals set and the motor smoothed out, its much better, but it still takes some getting used to over the stock mounts. I had the Mazdatrix competition motor mounts before and these are an order of magnitude stiffer and transfer that much more vibration. If you go from stock mounts to these, you are going to think that you have a washing machine with rocks in it under your hood for a while!!!
Noise... because the mounts transfer more vibration, you will hear all sorts of new sounds you never heard before. As i rev the motor, you can feel and hear a growl from the car in response to the transmitted vibration. Ths effect was much more pronounced when the car was still in the air on stands, now that its on the ground, its still there, but the tires damped the effect a bit.
Less forgiving, letting the clutch out too quckly while just putting about can result in some voilent jitters and scare the hell out of you, especially if you are eyeballing some chick on the sidewalk while cruizing up to a stop light and let the clutch out in too high a gear.... that produces all kinds of jerks, rattles and complaints from the car and makes you look quite un-cool!!
That being said, I should say that I have the mounts in the full tight position as that is what Chris reccomends for the break-in period. All the above mentioned vibration and noise may lessen if i loosen the mounts up a bit.
SO... What's the lowdown.. These Mounts are AWESOME if you really want to get the most performance out of your car. They will tighten it up and take your car one step closer to being a street legal race car! They'll stop that annoying 3rd into 5th skip and they'll add some zip to your hoopty!! They are for those who want the best performance out of their cars and can deal with a little added vibration and noise. However, if you want a cushy ride and are really into your harpsichord concierto's on your stereo, these may not be for you!
I give them the big Creeping Death too much metal for one hand, 2 devil horns up!!!!!
08-09-04, 08:50 AM
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When my engine blew so did one of my motor mounts. I had my engine rebuilt by Chris Sanders and threw in a small streetport to go with it. Since the mount crapped out I had the option of using the Banzai racing mounts, which had just come out at the time.
Shifting is definitely a lot better, in terms of faster shifting and how much harder you can slam into gears.
The vibration is an iffy subject for me. I don't mind the chassis vibration but my plastic steering column surround rattles with the vibration which is ANNOYING. I tried to loosen up the motor mounts and I stripped the bolt on the passenger's side so I'm going to have to replace that. I think I'll just put both bolts back on maximum compression and figure out some way to dampen the sound from the steering column surround.
Otherwise these mounts are definitely an improvement over stock. I still have one good stock motor mount if anyone wants it.
Shifting is definitely a lot better, in terms of faster shifting and how much harder you can slam into gears.
The vibration is an iffy subject for me. I don't mind the chassis vibration but my plastic steering column surround rattles with the vibration which is ANNOYING. I tried to loosen up the motor mounts and I stripped the bolt on the passenger's side so I'm going to have to replace that. I think I'll just put both bolts back on maximum compression and figure out some way to dampen the sound from the steering column surround.
Otherwise these mounts are definitely an improvement over stock. I still have one good stock motor mount if anyone wants it.
08-09-04, 09:22 AM
#4
Locust of the apocalypse
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Yeah, I'm still in the "break in period" from what chris said, and the vibration should go down, but he siad it will still be ten times that of stock. But, I likes 'em a lot!
As to the steering column surround.. take it out and put a real thin bead (i mean THIN) of black RTV around the mating surefaces and where it rubs against the column and dash, then let the RTV dry overnight before putting it back together. that should stop your squeeking problem and if your careful with the rtv, you wont see it.
As to the steering column surround.. take it out and put a real thin bead (i mean THIN) of black RTV around the mating surefaces and where it rubs against the column and dash, then let the RTV dry overnight before putting it back together. that should stop your squeeking problem and if your careful with the rtv, you wont see it.
08-09-04, 10:40 AM
#5
Lives on the Forum
If you examine the stock engine mounts, they are a sandwhich of metal plates and rubber.
Studs are welded (screwed?) on each metal plate for fastening.
These mounts sounds like a PU bushing with a bolt through it.
This means the bolt takes most of the expansion and deflection loads that the engine mount see.
This is not what I call a good design.
They are definitely not the same design as stock.
This design is definitely easier to manufacture though.
How much did they cost?
-Ted
Studs are welded (screwed?) on each metal plate for fastening.
These mounts sounds like a PU bushing with a bolt through it.
This means the bolt takes most of the expansion and deflection loads that the engine mount see.
This is not what I call a good design.
They are definitely not the same design as stock.
This design is definitely easier to manufacture though.
How much did they cost?
-Ted
08-09-04, 10:54 AM
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I got 'em for 100 bucks shipped on a newsgroup buy, which is like 25 bucks more than a set of stock ones shipped.
The are not the same design as stock, but are the same dimensionally.
You're right about the design differences. Where the stock ones have two mounting bolts that are independant of one another mounted into the rubber, the Banzai version has a huge assed Poly Bushing with a hole in it that is sadwiched between two metal plates. the mounting bolt runs through the whole way. That way, the tighter you make the bolt, the stiffer the mount become. You are also right about the bolt recieving some tortional stress going to the mount, However, I don't see how you make the adjustable for stiffness any other way.
The mounts should still be able to compress, but because of the bolt being locked at the top, it cannot expand, i think this is where the bolt is going to get most of its stress.
Only time will tell if the bolt is going to get plastered.
The are not the same design as stock, but are the same dimensionally.
You're right about the design differences. Where the stock ones have two mounting bolts that are independant of one another mounted into the rubber, the Banzai version has a huge assed Poly Bushing with a hole in it that is sadwiched between two metal plates. the mounting bolt runs through the whole way. That way, the tighter you make the bolt, the stiffer the mount become. You are also right about the bolt recieving some tortional stress going to the mount, However, I don't see how you make the adjustable for stiffness any other way.
The mounts should still be able to compress, but because of the bolt being locked at the top, it cannot expand, i think this is where the bolt is going to get most of its stress.
Only time will tell if the bolt is going to get plastered.
08-09-04, 12:00 PM
#7
The mystery of the prize.
Originally Posted by YearsOfDecay
You are also right about the bolt recieving some tortional stress going to the mount, However, I don't see how you make the adjustable for stiffness any other way.
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08-09-04, 12:02 PM
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So obviously you highly recommend them, but are they really worth it compared to the Mazdacomp ones? The price difference is probably around close to $50 ($40 each of Mazdacomp, totalling $80, while Banzai mounts are $130).
I'm really interested in getting either one, but want something that will last as well. Vibration and noise is not that big of a deal for me, so the stiffness won't be a problem.
Oh, do you have to take the engine out to put the mounts in? I'm guessing no. Just want some tips from people who have done it without their engines being out of the car. Definitely need one, as my stock passenger side mount is completely gone (large crack down the middle).
I'm really interested in getting either one, but want something that will last as well. Vibration and noise is not that big of a deal for me, so the stiffness won't be a problem.
Oh, do you have to take the engine out to put the mounts in? I'm guessing no. Just want some tips from people who have done it without their engines being out of the car. Definitely need one, as my stock passenger side mount is completely gone (large crack down the middle).
08-09-04, 12:25 PM
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http://www.banzairacing.net/polyfc_motor_mounts.htm
You can read all about these mounts including installation instructions from the Banzai Racing website.
You can read all about these mounts including installation instructions from the Banzai Racing website.
08-09-04, 10:29 PM
#11
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Bought these for a car I am building for someone... and they are SWEEEEET.
They SUCK to install when putting the engine back in the car because you have ZERO free play to adjust things to get em to drop in the holes... BUT.... after the engine is TIGHT.. and should absorb vibration real well.
http://www.awrracing.com/images/rx_eng_mtslg.jpg
http://www.awrracing.com/images/awrfcmotormountslg.jpg
142.95 from AWR..
Now that I have one set on this other car I am buying em for my EP car. They are REAL nice.. and I am tired of tearing the stiffer Mazda Comp ones with a N/A and standalone
They SUCK to install when putting the engine back in the car because you have ZERO free play to adjust things to get em to drop in the holes... BUT.... after the engine is TIGHT.. and should absorb vibration real well.
http://www.awrracing.com/images/rx_eng_mtslg.jpg
http://www.awrracing.com/images/awrfcmotormountslg.jpg
142.95 from AWR..
Now that I have one set on this other car I am buying em for my EP car. They are REAL nice.. and I am tired of tearing the stiffer Mazda Comp ones with a N/A and standalone
08-09-04, 11:10 PM
#12
Lives on the Forum
Um, there is an option to keep the engine in place.
An engine torque brace kinda does the same thing, and you get to keep your existing mounts.
If you're racing and this type of thing is restricted, I guess you're out of luck.
-Ted
An engine torque brace kinda does the same thing, and you get to keep your existing mounts.
If you're racing and this type of thing is restricted, I guess you're out of luck.
-Ted
08-10-04, 04:53 AM
#13
Senior Member
Ehh Yeah... True...
You could even go Old school V8 and simply chain it in... a more barbaric method of torque brace......
OR simply fix the problem
BUT.. youre right.. I guess there are classes that will not allow those mounts.... BUT.. I think... (Dont quote me.. cause its 6AM and I just got off a 14.5 hour shift).... I THINK... that they would be legal even in ITS.... cant remember though... they are not stock.. sooooo.... but you CAN use the race mounts that are not stock either.. but are stiffer etc... (Damn suffering from CRS at this early time)
You could even go Old school V8 and simply chain it in... a more barbaric method of torque brace......
OR simply fix the problem
BUT.. youre right.. I guess there are classes that will not allow those mounts.... BUT.. I think... (Dont quote me.. cause its 6AM and I just got off a 14.5 hour shift).... I THINK... that they would be legal even in ITS.... cant remember though... they are not stock.. sooooo.... but you CAN use the race mounts that are not stock either.. but are stiffer etc... (Damn suffering from CRS at this early time)
08-10-04, 08:08 AM
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[QUOTE=astyrrian]
The vibration is an iffy subject for me. I don't mind the chassis vibration but my plastic steering column surround rattles with the vibration which is ANNOYING. I tried to loosen up the motor mounts and I stripped the bolt on the passenger's side so I'm going to have to replace that. I think I'll just put both bolts back on maximum compression and figure out some way to dampen the sound from the steering column surround.
Go to a theatrical supply place (others may have it too) and buy a roll of Gaffers Tape. It is everything that duct tape wishes it was. The adhesive doesn't degrade, it pulls off without leaving any residue behind and is black and very "rubbery". Little pieces of this stuff used like a gasket between loose parts stops the creaking and squeaking very well. My car used to sound like Alvin and the Chipmunks on the inside until I used a total of about three feet of tape in little pieces wherever parts were rubbing together.
The vibration is an iffy subject for me. I don't mind the chassis vibration but my plastic steering column surround rattles with the vibration which is ANNOYING. I tried to loosen up the motor mounts and I stripped the bolt on the passenger's side so I'm going to have to replace that. I think I'll just put both bolts back on maximum compression and figure out some way to dampen the sound from the steering column surround.
Go to a theatrical supply place (others may have it too) and buy a roll of Gaffers Tape. It is everything that duct tape wishes it was. The adhesive doesn't degrade, it pulls off without leaving any residue behind and is black and very "rubbery". Little pieces of this stuff used like a gasket between loose parts stops the creaking and squeaking very well. My car used to sound like Alvin and the Chipmunks on the inside until I used a total of about three feet of tape in little pieces wherever parts were rubbing together.
08-12-04, 08:48 AM
#17
Banzai Racing
Yearsofdecay- thanks for posting up this review of the Banzai Racing FC polyurethane motor mounts. I am glad to hear that you like them, and that they are performing well for you.
Sideways7- The engine doesn't have to be removed to install them, check out the installation instructions
http://www.banzairacing.net/BRPMM_in...structions.htm
Sideways7- The engine doesn't have to be removed to install them, check out the installation instructions
http://www.banzairacing.net/BRPMM_in...structions.htm
Last edited by BlueTII; 08-12-04 at 08:58 AM.
10-10-04, 07:30 AM
#20
Banzai Racing
Originally Posted by jacobcartmill
i do not like these motor mounts. they are as weak as the bolts that hold them together and i broke both of them at the same time when i launched at the track.
the bolt snapped right in two where the nut was screwed on.
the bolt snapped right in two where the nut was screwed on.
You failed to mention that you were at the track with broken trans mounts and nitto's. Prior to installing the poly mounts you went to the track and sheared of your stock mounts. Instead of slamming the product maybe you should fix your car.
I am running this same design mount in my single turbo FD, which produces a lot more power than you are making and I don't have any problems with bolts breaking.
Also next time you have a problem with a product you should contact the supplier (me in this case) before jumping straight to the forums. I read your other post and was waiting for an email or call, nothing. I would have sent you out new hardware and made recomendations.
Thanks,
Chris
10-12-04, 07:45 AM
#22
Banzai Racing
The design is the basically the same as what every FD owner is running when they switch to Gotham Racing's $500 mounts.
Pengarufoo- NOBODY is forcing you to buy these mounts, the design does not suck. You strike me as the type of cheap *** that thinks everything can be purchased at Home Depot.
Pengarufoo- NOBODY is forcing you to buy these mounts, the design does not suck. You strike me as the type of cheap *** that thinks everything can be purchased at Home Depot.
10-12-04, 08:07 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by jacobcartmill
i do not like these motor mounts. they are as weak as the bolts that hold them together and i broke both of them at the same time when i launched at the track.
the bolt snapped right in two where the nut was screwed on.
the bolt snapped right in two where the nut was screwed on.
2) How hard did you reef down on the bolts.. I tightened the bolts up until they stopped turning and then torqued the top nuts to 15 lft lbs.
3) Did you have the mounts compressed the whole way??? If you didn't follow the instructions and compress the mounts the whole way, they could have become loose after "settling in" and allowed the motor to snap voilently during the launch (wich is what i supect happened)
3) could be a bad bolt, the bolts are standard issue, mass made, one bolt could have had a structural flaw in it and when it went, the twisting broke the other.
You are correct that the mounts are only as strong as the bolts, HOWEVER, these bolts are the same size as the stock bolts. Maybe Banzai could use a case hardened bolt if this issue resurfaces in someone elses mount
4) Broken Trans Mounts????????? Nice dude.. Why didn't you give us that information????? I think I mentioned that i also put the competition "Sides of Y" mounts, along with a new center mount, in when I put the motor back in. Sorry, but if you put new motor mounts in with wasted trans mounts, you were asking for trouble. The trans mounts do more than just make the trans sit pretty.
Last edited by YearsOfDecay; 10-12-04 at 08:17 AM.
10-12-04, 08:09 AM
#24
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Why not just switch to fully solid aluminum motor mounts? Scalliwag sells them for cheaper, and honestly I didn't notice any difference in driveability between solid and stock, plus it'd be pretty had to break the solid ones 
10-12-04, 08:21 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by dDuB
Why not just switch to fully solid aluminum motor mounts? Scalliwag sells them for cheaper, and honestly I didn't notice any difference in driveability between solid and stock, plus it'd be pretty had to break the solid ones
)Also... as one person has PM'd me with this accusation... I am in no way affiliated with Banzai Racing, I just like the mounts.
Last edited by YearsOfDecay; 10-12-04 at 08:25 AM.