AWS bypass/disable?
09-14-11, 06:12 AM
#1
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AWS bypass/disable?
And yes, I've tried searching. Like all other forum search functions I've seen so far, it not very helpful.
Lucy's water pump gasket is leaking, and I figure while the cooling system is down for repair I might as well try bypassing the AWS thermowax to take the AWS out. I want to keep the IAC. However, I am a little confused here. One post I read said that removal of the thermowax pellet housing removes pressure from the cam that holds the TB open slightly, but another said that the plugging of a specific vacuum line prevented it from opening?
Just looking for some clarification.
Thanks for the time.
Lucy's water pump gasket is leaking, and I figure while the cooling system is down for repair I might as well try bypassing the AWS thermowax to take the AWS out. I want to keep the IAC. However, I am a little confused here. One post I read said that removal of the thermowax pellet housing removes pressure from the cam that holds the TB open slightly, but another said that the plugging of a specific vacuum line prevented it from opening?
Just looking for some clarification.
Thanks for the time.
09-14-11, 10:33 AM
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PvillKnight7, thanks!
I'd been to FC3S pro before but never noticed that secion.
09-14-11, 10:39 AM
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And yes, I've tried searching. Like all other forum search functions I've seen so far, it not very helpful.
Lucy's water pump gasket is leaking, and I figure while the cooling system is down for repair I might as well try bypassing the AWS thermowax to take the AWS out. I want to keep the IAC. However, I am a little confused here. One post I read said that removal of the thermowax pellet housing removes pressure from the cam that holds the TB open slightly, but another said that the plugging of a specific vacuum line prevented it from opening?
Just looking for some clarification.
Thanks for the time.
Lucy's water pump gasket is leaking, and I figure while the cooling system is down for repair I might as well try bypassing the AWS thermowax to take the AWS out. I want to keep the IAC. However, I am a little confused here. One post I read said that removal of the thermowax pellet housing removes pressure from the cam that holds the TB open slightly, but another said that the plugging of a specific vacuum line prevented it from opening?
Just looking for some clarification.
Thanks for the time.
09-14-11, 10:43 AM
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Starting the car in gear bypasses the AWS if I remember correctly (haven't had a stock ecu for a while)
keep the thermowax.
the thermowax holds the throttleplates open while the car warms up, and tapers off once warm
the aws is what jumps your car to 3k rpm when you first turn the key.
the aws was designed to heat up your pre-cats, so you can get by without it.
the thermowax disabled will not allow enough air into the car during warmup. It can run/start with your foot on the pedal, mine even did without before I swapped over to a standalone. Now my BAC does the duty of the thermowax. But it stalls easier when coming to a stop or starting or anything really inbetween throttle.
The vacuum line being plugged doesn't prevent it from working in my experience.
The removal of the whole assembly does remove the part which holds the throtle slightly open, you'll have to compensate with the throttle adjustment screw on the throttle body itself if you do this. Still do not recommend taking it off since you don't really have anything to gain from it
FC3S pro says it keeps air temps cooler, increases the flow through the throttlebody because it doesn't have to go through double plates, and that access under the manifold is easier without the coolant hose.
the only one I agree with is the final one, I don't remove my manifolds weekly or monthly or even semi-annually so I can deal with it.
If I recall correctly
The double plates accelerate air, not hinder it
and
The degree or few that air could be heated in the throttle body is negligible, the IAT sensor is before the throttlebody on both turbo and non-turbo cars, so obviously the engineers though the same.
keep the thermowax.
the thermowax holds the throttleplates open while the car warms up, and tapers off once warm
the aws is what jumps your car to 3k rpm when you first turn the key.
the aws was designed to heat up your pre-cats, so you can get by without it.
the thermowax disabled will not allow enough air into the car during warmup. It can run/start with your foot on the pedal, mine even did without before I swapped over to a standalone. Now my BAC does the duty of the thermowax. But it stalls easier when coming to a stop or starting or anything really inbetween throttle.
The vacuum line being plugged doesn't prevent it from working in my experience.
The removal of the whole assembly does remove the part which holds the throtle slightly open, you'll have to compensate with the throttle adjustment screw on the throttle body itself if you do this. Still do not recommend taking it off since you don't really have anything to gain from it
FC3S pro says it keeps air temps cooler, increases the flow through the throttlebody because it doesn't have to go through double plates, and that access under the manifold is easier without the coolant hose.
the only one I agree with is the final one, I don't remove my manifolds weekly or monthly or even semi-annually so I can deal with it.
If I recall correctly
The double plates accelerate air, not hinder it
and
The degree or few that air could be heated in the throttle body is negligible, the IAT sensor is before the throttlebody on both turbo and non-turbo cars, so obviously the engineers though the same.
09-14-11, 10:58 AM
#7
I take The Canadian FC3S DIY God's opinion on this. Give the engine a minute or two to circulate and warm the oil and then drive off. Just keep revs below 3k and throttle load low until the coolant warms.
PvillKnight7, thanks! I'd been to FC3S pro before but never noticed that secion.
PvillKnight7, thanks!
I'd been to FC3S pro before but never noticed that secion.Trending Topics
09-14-11, 11:26 AM
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@MMoore4545
Yeah, I definitely don't want to half-*** it like in my OP, I'm going to follow the FC3Spro guide. Lucy does have some trouble with nearly stalling'll just do the whole enchilada.
And you are correct, there is little quantifiable benefit in removing the AWS system/plates. But for one, I really dislike having to clutch-in first-gear when the car starts. Additionally, I was lead to believe that it's bad to allow a dead-cold rotary to rev to 3000rpm. While removal of the AWS would mean more time to warm-up, it will prolong engine life, no?
And while the intake velocity will be reduced, it will only be a factor at low rpms with sudden throttle changes, and they state as much. I drive like a granny anyway, so according to them, I won't have any trouble driving her. My Mustang-lusting brother on the other hand...
As to emissions, I'm going to pretty much replace the exhaust system including a new ss cat. I'm in Michigan, so even if I didn't have a conscience about pollution (that coming from a RX-7 driver, lol) there are no laws. And it's four years before Lucy lapses into 'Collector Car' status anyway...
Yeah, I definitely don't want to half-*** it like in my OP, I'm going to follow the FC3Spro guide. Lucy does have some trouble with nearly stalling'll just do the whole enchilada.
And you are correct, there is little quantifiable benefit in removing the AWS system/plates. But for one, I really dislike having to clutch-in first-gear when the car starts. Additionally, I was lead to believe that it's bad to allow a dead-cold rotary to rev to 3000rpm. While removal of the AWS would mean more time to warm-up, it will prolong engine life, no?
And while the intake velocity will be reduced, it will only be a factor at low rpms with sudden throttle changes, and they state as much. I drive like a granny anyway, so according to them, I won't have any trouble driving her. My Mustang-lusting brother on the other hand...
As to emissions, I'm going to pretty much replace the exhaust system including a new ss cat. I'm in Michigan, so even if I didn't have a conscience about pollution (that coming from a RX-7 driver, lol) there are no laws. And it's four years before Lucy lapses into 'Collector Car' status anyway...
09-14-11, 11:39 AM
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Amen to Mustang Brothers...
The aws will still activate without the thermowax, j9fd3s is correct in saying they're two separate things.
The aws (3000rpm start) is controlled by the ECU and BAC valve, it is electrical. (the "emissions" one, warms pre-cats up to working temp) It decreases engine warmup time by something probably very small ( less than 10%) so that isn't the issue. it doesn't come on in he extreme cold, I wanna say colder than 10*C. If you search there may be a switch you can jumper to bypass the rpm jump when you start it, I agree having 1st and clutch in every time is a pita. ( I know disconnecting one of the coolant sensors in a S4 will bypass it, not recommended)
The thermowax/throttle plates are mechanical and run by engine coolant. They don't necessarily shorten warmup time, just allow the engine to idle smoothly during warmup. Fuel doesn't like to atomize in the cold, so the lower rpm idle is difficult to get dialed in with a cold engine/bad fuel atomization on he stock ECU, hence they just let it taper down from 2,000 to 800/750rpm
I full agree, AWS is often called the accelerated wear system. But like I said they're two independent parts, removing the throttle plates doesn't stop the AWS's rpm spike
The aws will still activate without the thermowax, j9fd3s is correct in saying they're two separate things.
The aws (3000rpm start) is controlled by the ECU and BAC valve, it is electrical. (the "emissions" one, warms pre-cats up to working temp) It decreases engine warmup time by something probably very small ( less than 10%) so that isn't the issue. it doesn't come on in he extreme cold, I wanna say colder than 10*C. If you search there may be a switch you can jumper to bypass the rpm jump when you start it, I agree having 1st and clutch in every time is a pita. ( I know disconnecting one of the coolant sensors in a S4 will bypass it, not recommended)
The thermowax/throttle plates are mechanical and run by engine coolant. They don't necessarily shorten warmup time, just allow the engine to idle smoothly during warmup. Fuel doesn't like to atomize in the cold, so the lower rpm idle is difficult to get dialed in with a cold engine/bad fuel atomization on he stock ECU, hence they just let it taper down from 2,000 to 800/750rpm
I full agree, AWS is often called the accelerated wear system. But like I said they're two independent parts, removing the throttle plates doesn't stop the AWS's rpm spike
09-14-11, 08:47 PM
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Amen to Mustang Brothers...
The aws will still activate without the thermowax, j9fd3s is correct in saying they're two separate things.
The aws (3000rpm start) is controlled by the ECU and BAC valve, it is electrical. (the "emissions" one, warms pre-cats up to working temp) It decreases engine warmup time by something probably very small ( less than 10%) so that isn't the issue. it doesn't come on in he extreme cold, I wanna say colder than 10*C. If you search there may be a switch you can jumper to bypass the rpm jump when you start it, I agree having 1st and clutch in every time is a pita. ( I know disconnecting one of the coolant sensors in a S4 will bypass it, not recommended)
The thermowax/throttle plates are mechanical and run by engine coolant. They don't necessarily shorten warmup time, just allow the engine to idle smoothly during warmup. Fuel doesn't like to atomize in the cold, so the lower rpm idle is difficult to get dialed in with a cold engine/bad fuel atomization on he stock ECU, hence they just let it taper down from 2,000 to 800/750rpm
I full agree, AWS is often called the accelerated wear system. But like I said they're two independent parts, removing the throttle plates doesn't stop the AWS's rpm spike
The aws will still activate without the thermowax, j9fd3s is correct in saying they're two separate things.
The aws (3000rpm start) is controlled by the ECU and BAC valve, it is electrical. (the "emissions" one, warms pre-cats up to working temp) It decreases engine warmup time by something probably very small ( less than 10%) so that isn't the issue. it doesn't come on in he extreme cold, I wanna say colder than 10*C. If you search there may be a switch you can jumper to bypass the rpm jump when you start it, I agree having 1st and clutch in every time is a pita. ( I know disconnecting one of the coolant sensors in a S4 will bypass it, not recommended)
The thermowax/throttle plates are mechanical and run by engine coolant. They don't necessarily shorten warmup time, just allow the engine to idle smoothly during warmup. Fuel doesn't like to atomize in the cold, so the lower rpm idle is difficult to get dialed in with a cold engine/bad fuel atomization on he stock ECU, hence they just let it taper down from 2,000 to 800/750rpm
I full agree, AWS is often called the accelerated wear system. But like I said they're two independent parts, removing the throttle plates doesn't stop the AWS's rpm spike
And it's in the BAC... Well if my brother gets his 'Stang before winter then we'll be garaging Lucy...hmm. Perhaps I won't go to the trouble of disabling the emissions AWS. And a RTek 2.0 is too expensive right now...Thanks anyway man.
09-14-11, 09:29 PM
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I've searched and searched, sorry man, can't find anything simple to unplug and make life easy.
The BAC valve supplies a lot of the air for this system and I would not recommend removing it in these circumstances.
When my S5 vert was stock I parked in gear and started the car with a foot on the brake and a foot on the clutch. You can also "blip" the throttle a little once it starts and it will drop.
The BAC valve supplies a lot of the air for this system and I would not recommend removing it in these circumstances.
When my S5 vert was stock I parked in gear and started the car with a foot on the brake and a foot on the clutch. You can also "blip" the throttle a little once it starts and it will drop.
09-14-11, 11:15 PM
#12
I am not exactly sure if this will work but there is a two prong sensor on the bottom of the radiator when I replaced my radiator with a koyo it didn't have a spot for this sensor so I simply left it unplugged and jumped and my car never did the aws routine again.
09-15-11, 01:49 AM
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And MMoore4545, I know. I took a few auto classes at the CC last year and I do know how important the BAC (mazdaspeak for Idle Air Control, right?) lol, that's actually why some people don't understand me because I use domestic sensor acronyms and not Asian.
09-15-11, 08:42 AM
#14
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You want to disable the AWS?
Just unplug the electronic connector plugged in to it. It's not controlled by the BAC.
You can remove the whole unit and just plug the air holes if you want.
Or you could just start the car with it in gear (and your foot on the clutch) and that makes AWS not engage.
Don't mess with your thermowax or throttle unless you understand what you're doing.
Just unplug the electronic connector plugged in to it. It's not controlled by the BAC.
You can remove the whole unit and just plug the air holes if you want.
Or you could just start the car with it in gear (and your foot on the clutch) and that makes AWS not engage.
Don't mess with your thermowax or throttle unless you understand what you're doing.
09-15-11, 10:12 AM
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@sv51macross yea different speak, same part
S5 cars don't have the coolant switch at the bottom of the radiator, so don't worry about looking for one.
@tofuball when we key our cars on doesn't the BAC valve go 100% open? working it in conjunction with the AWS solenoid to keep our rpm's up. I think the FSM says they work in conjunction.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...545/bacaws.png
OP already stated that he didn't want to pick up the habit of starting that way, so I was trying to help him find a mechanical solution to the issue, since I couldn't find an S5 thread that dealt directly with disabling it.
@sv51macross Try unplugging the solenoid, and starting the car out of gear.
If it works, awesome! if not, then plug it back in and unplug the bac valve, to isolate which one (or both) it is.
S5 cars don't have the coolant switch at the bottom of the radiator, so don't worry about looking for one.
@tofuball when we key our cars on doesn't the BAC valve go 100% open? working it in conjunction with the AWS solenoid to keep our rpm's up. I think the FSM says they work in conjunction.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...545/bacaws.png
OP already stated that he didn't want to pick up the habit of starting that way, so I was trying to help him find a mechanical solution to the issue, since I couldn't find an S5 thread that dealt directly with disabling it.
@sv51macross Try unplugging the solenoid, and starting the car out of gear.
If it works, awesome! if not, then plug it back in and unplug the bac valve, to isolate which one (or both) it is.
09-15-11, 12:05 PM
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the Bypass Air Control (BAC) valve bypasses air around the throttle to control the idle speed.
09-15-11, 01:15 PM
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You can just remove the AWS valve, unplug it, and block off the inlet/outlet. The ID is around 1/2"; grab a ruler/tape measure/calipers to get the exact measurement. The BAC provides a good chunk of the additional air to bring engine speed to 3k RPM on startup, so you'll see just about no change by removing it.
Searching through the forum this is the consensus for the S5 cars.
The BAC valve AND the AWS valve supply air for the 3k rpm startup
Please readthe thread, if you don't want to here is where we are at:
SV51Macross does not want to get rid of his BAC
does not want to alter his throttle body
does not want to start the car in gear each time
he is exploring options as to a mechanical way to bypass the 3krpm warmup, since none of these methods accomplish what he wants he stated that he is not interested in them.
Searching and looking at the FSM states that the BAC valve AS WELL as the AWS valve adds air to start up for the 3,000rpm warmup. There are no coolant sensors that can be disabled as per the S4 cars.
Currently the only mechanical solution is to upgrade to a S5 Rtek 2.x
I personally no longer have the stock system so I can't experiment by unplugging the solenoids myself, I was hoping that this would offer some insight into how to bypass this system on a S5.
-M
12-20-11, 09:44 PM
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This thread is old and discusses defeating the AWS with the factory setup.
It explored the possibility of being able to defeat it by unplugging or modding something already onboard.
Also did you read the features of Rtek for S5 Non Turbo?
http://digitaltuning.com/index.php?p...age=1&ecu=S5NA
SW51Macross's car is a S5 NA. There is only Rtek 1.0 or Rtek 2.0
Rtek 1.0 does not disable AWS according to PocketLogger's website.
It merely disables the Oil Metering Pump.
Rtek 2.0 does but it is $449
Please read the thread for all pertinent information before adding misinformation to it.
-M
It explored the possibility of being able to defeat it by unplugging or modding something already onboard.
Also did you read the features of Rtek for S5 Non Turbo?
http://digitaltuning.com/index.php?p...age=1&ecu=S5NA
SW51Macross's car is a S5 NA. There is only Rtek 1.0 or Rtek 2.0
Rtek 1.0 does not disable AWS according to PocketLogger's website.
It merely disables the Oil Metering Pump.
Rtek 2.0 does but it is $449
Please read the thread for all pertinent information before adding misinformation to it.
-M
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